Our boat came with a backstay adjuster of the kind that has a heavy
tackle hauling down sheaves on a split leg.

(You can see it on this page http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Boat2.htm)

I can't see what this is doing on a masthead rig except maybe to
unload the hull when not being sailed. With a 3/4" hull cruising
boat, I'm not too worried about letting the stern back down in the
water after sailing. The former owner had a lot of funny ideas and
maybe this was just one of his responses to a boat which is not a hot
machine going to windward.

I'd like to clean up the after deck area and it looks like I could
dispense with this by changing out one turnbuckle part and tensioning
appropriately.

Can anyone give me a reason for keeping this set up on a cruising
boat?

--

Roger Long

Its just there to make your boat look more hi-tek. They were really
high fashion a few yrs ago. Git rid of it.

Nope... it's useful. We have one on our masthead rig Yamaha 30... definitely
makes a difference.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

wrote in message
oups.com...
Its just there to make your boat look more hi-tek. They were really
high fashion a few yrs ago. Git rid of it.

From the Harken website... http://www.harken.com/blocks/bksty.php

On masthead rigs it is the primary control for headstay tension, which
affects genoa shape. Ease the backstay to add draft to the genoa for more
power in light-to-medium conditions; tension the backstay to remove draft
for better pointing in heavy air. Backstay tension also affects mast bend,
flattening the main and extending its range before a reef is required. It
also changes mast rake, especially off the wind where dumping the rig
forward reduces weather helm for reaching and running.
On fractional rigs, the primary affect of the backstay is to shape the main
through mast bend. Since the main is so important on a fractionally rigged
boat (comprising the majority of sail area), the system has to be designed
for convenient adjustment. It should be adjusted frequently, so if you can't
tolerate having crew moving off the rail to tweak the backstay every time,
place it where the main trimmer is invited to make fine adjustments to
backstay tension. It should be as natural as dropping the traveler or
trimming the fine-tune.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
Our boat came with a backstay adjuster of the kind that has a heavy tackle
hauling down sheaves on a split leg.

(You can see it on this page http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Boat2.htm)

I can't see what this is doing on a masthead rig except maybe to unload
the hull when not being sailed. With a 3/4" hull cruising boat, I'm not
too worried about letting the stern back down in the water after sailing.
The former owner had a lot of funny ideas and maybe this was just one of
his responses to a boat which is not a hot machine going to windward.

I'd like to clean up the after deck area and it looks like I could
dispense with this by changing out one turnbuckle part and tensioning
appropriately.

Can anyone give me a reason for keeping this set up on a cruising boat?

--

Roger Long

Do you think these performance differences will be apparent when not
sailing in close company with an evenly matched boat? Will the gain
on a long afternoon of windward legs make up for the hassle of getting
in and out of the dinghy with the tackle in the way?

--

Roger Long

I think there will be differences, but I don't know if it's worth the hassle
if it's a problem with the dinghy.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Roger Long" wrote in message
news
Do you think these performance differences will be apparent when not
sailing in close company with an evenly matched boat? Will the gain on a
long afternoon of windward legs make up for the hassle of getting in and
out of the dinghy with the tackle in the way?

--

Roger Long

In article ,
"Roger Long" wrote:

Do you think these performance differences will be apparent when not
sailing in close company with an evenly matched boat? Will the gain
on a long afternoon of windward legs make up for the hassle of getting
in and out of the dinghy with the tackle in the way?

That is such a subjective decision. Friends of mine have adjustable
backstays on 22 foot boats and swear by them. I do know that a bit more
tension on a windward leg makes quite a bit of difference when you're
also fighting a current. I'd probably dial up a bit more than I have in
tricky conditions if I had an adjustable, but I'm loath to maintain such
tension all the time.

The last time we were out, I would have greatly appreciated the 5 or so
degrees closer to the wind our friends say we could have sailed: A knot
plus current in the teeth, 2-4 knots boat speed. We weren't in a hurry,
so I discovered that a few degree shift off of up-current was pretty
much doubled over the ground.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Roger Long wrote:
Do you think these performance differences will be apparent when not
sailing in close company with an evenly matched boat?

It depends on how much attention you pay to your navigating. Would you
notice 5 degrees of pointing, with less leeway and slightly better speed?


... Will the gain
on a long afternoon of windward legs make up for the hassle of getting
in and out of the dinghy with the tackle in the way?


IMHO it's not even a question. Is there a way to move the tackle to one
side or the other, or make it less obtrusive? It doesn't have to pull to
the exact center for the same effect, and I doubt you need that much
purchase on it.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Capt. JG wrote:

From the Harken website... http://www.harken.com/blocks/bksty.php

On masthead rigs it is the primary control for headstay tension, which
affects genoa shape. Ease the backstay to add draft to the genoa for more
power in light-to-medium conditions; tension the backstay to remove draft
for better pointing in heavy air.

You got it all wrong. Adjustable back stay is a fancy turnbuckle on
my boat, with flip up adjuster handles, tension in the headstay can
be increased or decreased, though not enough to actually move the
masthead enough to grossly influence weather helm.

Genoa shape is governed by luff tension independant of headstay sag.
A stretchy genoa luff cannot accomplish as much improvement in
windward performance as a sail change, except in marginally
increased wind conditions, which exceeded, demand a smaller sail,
sheeted inboard of the usual genoa track and very flat.

It is so funny to watch genoa drivers struggle with heel and helm,
when a smaller properly set sail can so easily outperform them to
windward, especially since the right sail will last for years while
a baggy genoa may not have survived it's first race, shapewise.

One should not expect to actually stretch a forestay and the luff
hanging from it to any good effect.

While I must admit the adjustable backstay has some utility,
presetting the shrouds tighter aft and allowing the wind to do it's
work is a far superior sail shaping solution, cruisingwise, if you
want to automatically flatten the middle of the main in rising
winds, not a bad idea in the right circumstances. Overall main shape
is governed by it's luff tension, cunningham or gooseneck downhaul,
along with, of course, it's clew outhaul.

The backstay is not a sail control, but with enough adjustment,
matched in antiphase with the headstay adjustment, can give a
modicum of weather helm adjustment, though it would only suit a
small adjustment for a given sail combination in a small range of
wind conditions.

Better a strong jib halyard hoist and a stretchy luff rope, not
wire, though a wire to rope splice in the halyard is nice to
minimise warp under wind.



Backstay tension also affects mast bend,

depending on lower shrouds, automatically

flattening the main and extending its range before a reef is required. It
also changes mast rake, especially off the wind where dumping the rig
forward reduces weather helm for reaching and running.

Can yours move the masthead even 3 inches? Better to reduce sail
according to weather helm dictats. A jib downhaul can allow a man to
safely change a jib in seconds, only hanking it on at the foredeck,
possibly changing the sheets, and halyard shackle, and leaving the
doused genny siezed on deck, hanked on below the pennant for the 75%
working jib, depending on winds, and it's self tending club boom,
ready to instantly rise again in easing winds. That is why hanks
should be few and for taming the jib on deck only. It's halyard
should control it's shape by stretching the luff and taking away
some of the forestay load. Maximum stretch in a genny luff should be
at about half of the headstay tension. A wire luff genny is not
really adjustable, sail cloth can stretch a lot, and can be used and
abused.

Light air sails are fragile.

On fractional rigs, the primary affect of the backstay is to shape the main
through mast bend. Since the main is so important on a fractionally rigged
boat (comprising the majority of sail area)

Not in a lot of furler genny only boats I see go by

, the system has to be designed
for convenient adjustment. It should be adjusted frequently, so if you can't
tolerate having crew moving off the rail to tweak the backstay every time,
place it where the main trimmer is invited to make fine adjustments to
backstay tension. It should be as natural as dropping the traveler or
trimming the fine-tune.

The fine-tune what?

The traveller is the original hi-tech toy nobody really needs or
uses properly. A good boom vang can do what a traveller does and
more, and it doesn't get in the way.

Terry K

If I got it wrong, it's because Harken got it wrong. This was a quote from
their website.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Terry Spragg" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:

From the Harken website... http://www.harken.com/blocks/bksty.php

On masthead rigs it is the primary control for headstay tension, which
affects genoa shape. Ease the backstay to add draft to the genoa for more
power in light-to-medium conditions; tension the backstay to remove draft
for better pointing in heavy air.

You got it all wrong. Adjustable back stay is a fancy turnbuckle on my
boat, with flip up adjuster handles, tension in the headstay can be
increased or decreased, though not enough to actually move the masthead
enough to grossly influence weather helm.

Genoa shape is governed by luff tension independant of headstay sag. A
stretchy genoa luff cannot accomplish as much improvement in windward
performance as a sail change, except in marginally increased wind
conditions, which exceeded, demand a smaller sail, sheeted inboard of the
usual genoa track and very flat.

It is so funny to watch genoa drivers struggle with heel and helm, when a
smaller properly set sail can so easily outperform them to windward,
especially since the right sail will last for years while a baggy genoa
may not have survived it's first race, shapewise.

One should not expect to actually stretch a forestay and the luff hanging
from it to any good effect.

While I must admit the adjustable backstay has some utility, presetting
the shrouds tighter aft and allowing the wind to do it's work is a far
superior sail shaping solution, cruisingwise, if you want to automatically
flatten the middle of the main in rising winds, not a bad idea in the
right circumstances. Overall main shape is governed by it's luff tension,
cunningham or gooseneck downhaul, along with, of course, it's clew
outhaul.

The backstay is not a sail control, but with enough adjustment, matched in
antiphase with the headstay adjustment, can give a modicum of weather helm
adjustment, though it would only suit a small adjustment for a given sail
combination in a small range of wind conditions.

Better a strong jib halyard hoist and a stretchy luff rope, not wire,
though a wire to rope splice in the halyard is nice to minimise warp under
wind.



Backstay tension also affects mast bend,

depending on lower shrouds, automatically

flattening the main and extending its range before a reef is required. It
also changes mast rake, especially off the wind where dumping the rig
forward reduces weather helm for reaching and running.

Can yours move the masthead even 3 inches? Better to reduce sail according
to weather helm dictats. A jib downhaul can allow a man to safely change a
jib in seconds, only hanking it on at the foredeck, possibly changing the
sheets, and halyard shackle, and leaving the doused genny siezed on deck,
hanked on below the pennant for the 75% working jib, depending on winds,
and it's self tending club boom, ready to instantly rise again in easing
winds. That is why hanks should be few and for taming the jib on deck
only. It's halyard should control it's shape by stretching the luff and
taking away some of the forestay load. Maximum stretch in a genny luff
should be at about half of the headstay tension. A wire luff genny is not
really adjustable, sail cloth can stretch a lot, and can be used and
abused.

Light air sails are fragile.

On fractional rigs, the primary affect of the backstay is to shape the
main through mast bend. Since the main is so important on a fractionally
rigged boat (comprising the majority of sail area)

Not in a lot of furler genny only boats I see go by

, the system has to be designed
for convenient adjustment. It should be adjusted frequently, so if you
can't tolerate having crew moving off the rail to tweak the backstay
every time, place it where the main trimmer is invited to make fine
adjustments to backstay tension. It should be as natural as dropping the
traveler or trimming the fine-tune.

The fine-tune what?

The traveller is the original hi-tech toy nobody really needs or uses
properly. A good boom vang can do what a traveller does and more, and it
doesn't get in the way.

Terry K