On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 00:33:07 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Can anyone give me a reason for keeping this set up on a cruising
boat?

With a split backstay and tensioner, you can tension the mast
appropriately for either down or upwind work, the complexities and
rationale of which you can look up.

It's just another sail control but if it isn't broken, I wouldn't
remove it. I would learn how to use it just I I learned how to use the
cunningham, the barber outhaul and the vang.

YMMV,
R.

I lost the originial thread ... but on your website it shows a pic from
the foredeck looking up the mast ..... and the genoa shows an extremely
slack forestay with the genoa sagging off to leeward. The Genoa luff
very flat in the middle, hooking/fullness in middle leech area ....
maybe you should keep the tensioner and apply it a little harder to get
a better shape.
A genoa with this shape is going to be slow, will cause excess heel and
the boat wont point worth a damm. Wiith that closed 'slot' due to the
hooked leech ... it *has* to be causing 'backwinding' and rotten
mainsail performance .... which will cause further mal-performance of
the genoa..
Keep the tensioner..

You dont have any tell tales on the genoa. For 'magnitudes' better
sailing I'd suggest going to www.arvelgentry.com and review the
'magazine articles' section: :"Checking Trim on the Wind"; "Achieving
proper balance; & "Sailing to Windward"
Arvel Gentry was the aerodynamicist who was the first to explain how
sail *really* worked and then invented a 'tuft system' so that one can
visualize what is happening and how to trim'/shape according to the
actual conditions, etc.


In article , rhys
wrote:

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 00:33:07 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Can anyone give me a reason for keeping this set up on a cruising
boat?

With a split backstay and tensioner, you can tension the mast
appropriately for either down or upwind work, the complexities and
rationale of which you can look up.

It's just another sail control but if it isn't broken, I wouldn't
remove it. I would learn how to use it just I I learned how to use the
cunningham, the barber outhaul and the vang.

YMMV,
R.

That's actually the working jib on our very first sail when we were
satisfied to just get the sails up. We were just getting out of the
harbor traffic and hadn't started fiddling with anything yet.
Couldn't get any tension on the jib halyard either at that point.

I think I'm convinced now to keep the tensioner. A whole lot is
obviously good and not having everything that tight 24/7 at the dock
is probably worth the inconvienience of climbing around it.

--

Roger Long



"Rich Hampel" wrote in message
...
I lost the originial thread ... but on your website it shows a pic
from
the foredeck looking up the mast ..... and the genoa shows an
extremely
slack forestay with the genoa sagging off to leeward. The Genoa
luff
very flat in the middle, hooking/fullness in middle leech area ....
maybe you should keep the tensioner and apply it a little harder to
get
a better shape.
A genoa with this shape is going to be slow, will cause excess heel
and
the boat wont point worth a damm. Wiith that closed 'slot' due to
the
hooked leech ... it *has* to be causing 'backwinding' and rotten
mainsail performance .... which will cause further mal-performance
of
the genoa..
Keep the tensioner..

You dont have any tell tales on the genoa. For 'magnitudes' better
sailing I'd suggest going to www.arvelgentry.com and review the
'magazine articles' section: :"Checking Trim on the Wind";
"Achieving
proper balance; & "Sailing to Windward"
Arvel Gentry was the aerodynamicist who was the first to explain how
sail *really* worked and then invented a 'tuft system' so that one
can
visualize what is happening and how to trim'/shape according to the
actual conditions, etc.


In article , rhys
wrote:

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 00:33:07 GMT, "Roger Long"

wrote:

Can anyone give me a reason for keeping this set up on a cruising
boat?

With a split backstay and tensioner, you can tension the mast
appropriately for either down or upwind work, the complexities and
rationale of which you can look up.

It's just another sail control but if it isn't broken, I wouldn't
remove it. I would learn how to use it just I I learned how to use
the
cunningham, the barber outhaul and the vang.

YMMV,
R.

OK - definitely needs some tension on the luff (in the pic)

:-)

:In article , Roger Long
wrote:

That's actually the working jib on our very first sail when we were
satisfied to just get the sails up. We were just getting out of the
harbor traffic and hadn't started fiddling with anything yet.
Couldn't get any tension on the jib halyard either at that point.

I think I'm convinced now to keep the tensioner. A whole lot is
obviously good and not having everything that tight 24/7 at the dock
is probably worth the inconvienience of climbing around it.

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 19:10:41 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

That's actually the working jib on our very first sail when we were
satisfied to just get the sails up. We were just getting out of the
harbor traffic and hadn't started fiddling with anything yet.
Couldn't get any tension on the jib halyard either at that point.

I think I'm convinced now to keep the tensioner. A whole lot is
obviously good and not having everything that tight 24/7 at the dock
is probably worth the inconvienience of climbing around it.

Get a Loos gauge or equivalent and check your stay tension. A 30
footer of that vintage *might* have 1/4" stays, but they are more
likely 7/32" or something in that area. Off the cuff, I would say you
want about 1,200 lbs of tension in the forestay, 1,000 in the
backstay, 800 on the uppers and 600 on the lowers, but I'm
extrapolating backwards from a longer boat with "old-school" 1/4"
stays that take a lot of tension and benefit accordingly.

In my experience, sail rig tuning is only done properly 1 out of 3 or
4 cruising boats, with most of those being too slack. Mast rake is
also crucial: an inch WILL make a difference in some cases.

Racers and dinghy sailors are tuning mavens: ask one if its a matter
of experience.

R.

I correct that from instead of pounds to % of ultimate breaking
strength. 12-15% is normal for standing rigging (not including the
force needed to 'pre-bend the mast) and 20-25% for max. backstay
tension while sailing.
Simply check the wire diameter then go to a boat supply catalogue and
check the Ultimate tensile strength, etc. Obviously you need a gauge
or 'other knowledge' to determine the %.


..In article , rhys
wrote:

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 19:10:41 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

That's actually the working jib on our very first sail when we were
satisfied to just get the sails up. We were just getting out of the
harbor traffic and hadn't started fiddling with anything yet.
Couldn't get any tension on the jib halyard either at that point.

I think I'm convinced now to keep the tensioner. A whole lot is
obviously good and not having everything that tight 24/7 at the dock
is probably worth the inconvienience of climbing around it.

Get a Loos gauge or equivalent and check your stay tension. A 30
footer of that vintage *might* have 1/4" stays, but they are more
likely 7/32" or something in that area. Off the cuff, I would say you
want about 1,200 lbs of tension in the forestay, 1,000 in the
backstay, 800 on the uppers and 600 on the lowers, but I'm
extrapolating backwards from a longer boat with "old-school" 1/4"
stays that take a lot of tension and benefit accordingly.

In my experience, sail rig tuning is only done properly 1 out of 3 or
4 cruising boats, with most of those being too slack. Mast rake is
also crucial: an inch WILL make a difference in some cases.

Racers and dinghy sailors are tuning mavens: ask one if its a matter
of experience.

R.