"Frank" wrote in
oups.com:

But to move away from politics... Homeschooling at sea! I can't wait!
The kids are pretty excited, too.



Here's a good link I found:
http://www.doe.k12.ga.us/schools/homeschools.asp

I have some liveaboard friends who home schooled two boys with a program
from the Univerity of Nebraska-Lincoln:
University of Nebraska-Lincoln
Independence Study High School
Tel: (402) 472-2175
Fax: (866) 700-4747
mentioned on this website. Both boys went on to earn masters degrees being
automatically accepted at UNeb upon successful completion of the remote-
controlled high school. I looked at some of the correspondence materials
they used. Most impressive. World travelers, the boys got lots more
experience at sea than any kid in the finest private school in the country.
What they lacked was socialization with their generation, as do most home
schoolers, which is not good.

--
Larry

You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and your outlined in
chalk.

Thanks, Larry,

We're John Holt-style *un*schoolers. As such, we reject the concept of
curricula of any kind. And I say that as a product of a fairly rigorous
schooling experience myself, including a college major in secondary
education.

And the "socialization" argument is, to be blunt, bogus. Homeschooled
kids get more and better socialization than schooled kids, who are kept
quiet in their desks 6 or more hours a day and segregated solely with
their own age group, except during recess, when they get beat up by
older bullies. How in the world is that "better socialization" than
interacting with various people of various age groups in the real
world, just like we hafta do as adults? If you observe homeschooled
kids and schooled kids of the same age group in a social setting, I
contend that you'll find the homeschooled kids to be universally better
socialized and more comfortable with others (of all ages) than the
schooled kids.

And that's my $.02 on THAT subject! grin

Frank, fato profugus

Frank wrote:
Thanks, Larry,

We're John Holt-style *un*schoolers.

sweeping generalizations about school snipped

The "socialization" I'd be more concerned about is the programming they
get in US society to be unquestioning little consumers. It isn't the
schools that teach kids to be sheep. It's so-called "popular culture"
which is of course nothing more than advertising for consumer goods.

I agree pretty much with your assessment of our culture, such as it is.
I think that the schools are part of the indoctrination process,
however. Look at your own wording, "...teach the kids to be sheep."
Where do kids spend most of their day being herded around, told what to
do, told to be quiet, told when to think, and what to think, but not to
think too much. Actually having an original thought and questioning
something a teacher says is the rankest form of breaking from the herd
and results in instant and complete ostracism.

Do you disagree with my sweeping generalizations about school?

"Frank" wrote in message
ups.com...
I agree pretty much with your assessment of our culture, such as it is.
I think that the schools are part of the indoctrination process,
however. Look at your own wording, "...teach the kids to be sheep."
Where do kids spend most of their day being herded around, told what to
do, told to be quiet, told when to think, and what to think, but not to
think too much. Actually having an original thought and questioning
something a teacher says is the rankest form of breaking from the herd
and results in instant and complete ostracism.

Do you disagree with my sweeping generalizations about school?


Yes, somewhat. I always thought it was the sheep attempting to lead the
wolfs. I still think that way.

Frank wrote:
I agree pretty much with your assessment of our culture, such as it is.
I think that the schools are part of the indoctrination process,
however. Look at your own wording, "...teach the kids to be sheep."
Where do kids spend most of their day being herded around, told what to
do, told to be quiet, told when to think, and what to think, but not to
think too much. Actually having an original thought and questioning
something a teacher says is the rankest form of breaking from the herd
and results in instant and complete ostracism.
off the top of my head
the pros
1. I think you are speaking from your own experience with a school
system that didn't meet your needs.
2. You correctly want to protect your children from the same unhappy
experience you had.
3. It's possible you are/were a "gifted" person.

the cons
1. Your experience may not be your kids experience.
2. Kids need to experience life for themselves, which isn't to say that
they need to experience "school". I think there's a lot to be said for
getting out there. I just don't buy this "home-schooled makes better
kids" crap. My in-laws home-school their kids in a Baptist ghetto.
They're 2 years behind their peers in basic skills and if it ain't about
Jesus, it ain't bein' discussed in the home. OMG!!!! Are all
2.5billion of the Chinese and Indian's going straight to hell because
"they don't _know_ Jesus"? Going to get kinda crowded down there don't
you think?
3. Your criticism of "school" is predicated on a presumption that it
exists, perhaps based on your experience, to stifle the creative
expresssion of intelligence. All I can say is that my experience, and
my kid's experience was different...but then I didn't go to school in
the US.
4. Kids don't know anything yet...they're kids...even if they are gifted.
5. Most teachers do have something to say, motivated by a desire to
invigorate the minds of children. God knows they don't go into teaching
for the money, so cut them a little slack.

Do you disagree with my sweeping generalizations about school?

ah...as a rule, I think sweeping generalizations are intellectually
unsupportable.

conclusion
take 'em sailing
life's short
enjoy

prodigal1 wrote in :

My in-laws home-school their kids in a Baptist ghetto.
They're 2 years behind their peers in basic skills and if it ain't about
Jesus, it ain't bein' discussed in the home. OMG!!!! Are all
2.5billion of the Chinese and Indian's going straight to hell because
"they don't _know_ Jesus"? Going to get kinda crowded down there don't
you think?


My point, exactly. Noone is protecting the kids in these Jesus Ghettos
from the brainwashing. My next door neighbor is 35. He was brought up in
a World Church of God ghetto by a domineering mother. He's all screwed up
from it and no amount of counseling has helped him heal the scars she
caused him all his young life.

He'd have been much healthier screwing around with Mary Lou under the
football bleachers than having his head blown off by the Guilt Freaks For
Jesus.

--
Larry

You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and your outlined in
chalk.

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 08:52:27 -0400, Larry W4CSC
wrote:

prodigal1 wrote in :

My in-laws home-school their kids in a Baptist ghetto.
They're 2 years behind their peers in basic skills and if it ain't about
Jesus, it ain't bein' discussed in the home. OMG!!!! Are all
2.5billion of the Chinese and Indian's going straight to hell because
"they don't _know_ Jesus"? Going to get kinda crowded down there don't
you think?


My point, exactly. Noone is protecting the kids in these Jesus Ghettos
from the brainwashing. My next door neighbor is 35. He was brought up in
a World Church of God ghetto by a domineering mother. He's all screwed up
from it and no amount of counseling has helped him heal the scars she
caused him all his young life.

He'd have been much healthier screwing around with Mary Lou under the
football bleachers than having his head blown off by the Guilt Freaks For
Jesus.



Hmmm...the statistics that I've stumbled across suggest that religous
schools in general produce students that score ahead of regular school
students on measures of academic achievement.

I expect Larry has the data to back his views. He couldn't be
operating simply on the basis of opinion even prejudioce, surely?

:-)

Brian Whatcott

Whoa, guys! You call me on "sweeping generalizations" then reduce all
homeschooling to radical right-wing self-flagellating flat-earthers
brainwashing their kids in ghettos. Let's try to find a little balance
here. I certainly agree that *that* is not education; public school is
infinitely superior. Ok? Larry, I couldn't agree more that I'd rather
see a kid "discovering life" under the bleachers than having the kind
of experience you related.

Prodigal, you admit that you didn't even go to school in the US; but
you're arguing with my comments. I not only attended school here, I was
a teacher. Briefly. I admire teachers; I detest bureaucrats. Guess who,
IMO, runs the schools and sets policies? I was pretty happy with my
kids' school system. They attended for about three years. After first
grade, they were, as you guessed, in gifted classes, where the entrance
requirement was 98th %ile, i.e. MENSA level. (Where's Jax when you need
him?) But homeschooling is much more fun and much more flexible.
Whether a kid is "gifted" (however you define that) or not has no
bearing on it. I *like* being with my kids. If you don't really like
kids, homeschooling is definitely not the way you wanna go.

Yes, I admit that, by the common school system definition, I was gifted
(triple nine), as was my wife; and both girls are 99-plus, as well as
they can measure that at their age. I had a wonderful education,
courtesy of the Jesuits, not the US public school system. My wife's
comments about her education in the US public school system can't be
repeated in polite company.

But agruing about giftedness is just a distraction. *Every kid*
deserves to be nutured, not squashed. By your own admission, you are
ignorant of the US school system. Don't take my opinion, then; look
into it yourself. It's *at least* as bad as I paint it. There's a
Japanese saying which applies perfectly to the way we "school" kids:
the nail that stands up gets hammered down.

Frank - IMO, FWIW, YMMV, etc.

On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:13:53 -0400, prodigal1 wrote:

Frank wrote:
Thanks, Larry,

We're John Holt-style *un*schoolers.

sweeping generalizations about school snipped

The "socialization" I'd be more concerned about is the programming they
get in US society to be unquestioning little consumers. It isn't the
schools that teach kids to be sheep. It's so-called "popular culture"
which is of course nothing more than advertising for consumer goods.

It's not much different anywhere in the Western world, but it's worst
(or most developed a system of persuasion, depending on your POV) in
North America. We figure that an important side benefit of living on a
boat (with occasional school terms ashore in foreign countries) will
help our kid develop the critical thinking skills so he can make his
own choices.

As a marketer/advertising writer, I know how most "choices" are
illusory. Life at sea is a good teacher, by contrast, on how to think
clearly and rationally while maintaining a mystical relationship with
nature and the sea.

R.