Mic wrote:


Good point, but to then figure that it has to be bullit proof is it
reasonable for it to be built to withstand what max force? Where do
you draw the line? That is my point.

Somewhere above the average wind and below a Force 5 hurricane.


There is a difference in the intent, but 30 knots is 30 knots
regardless of the intent. This is a discussion about design, not
intent. While daysailors have the option of never leaving the dock
unless the short term forecast is perfect, passage makers have made an
commitment to take whatever the sea offers.


Yes if they are already out in it, but in the logs of Bumfuzzle on
there way from panama to galapagoes in about 30 knots they were
beating to the weather and wave, they made the decision to turn and
run with the waves for the nearest port in SA.

http://www.bumfuzzle.com/LogsDates.htm

True, but they were still out in it. It just happened that in this
case, they had an alternative. If they didn't have the alternative,
would they have abandoned ship?


Also if you read bill_dietrich logs at:
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dietri...agnoliaLog.txt
Currently in Bahamas, you will see how many boats leave an anchorage
and them shortly return...

Seen it all the time, been there myself. It doesn't change a thing.
You must assume that every now and them you'll be caught in stronger
winds than you normally are comfortable in. Frankly, these people are
lucky that the weak link is their own nerve (or their stomachs),
rather than the boat. I've never been happy on a boat that I don't
have a lot of faith in - I like to think that the boat and its gear
can handle any situation I'm willing to get into.

....


So what would you think is a reasonable design point? In all of the
larger boats I've owned, I've been out in 40+ knots, anchored in 50+,
and had 60+ at the dock. All of them have made Atlantic crossings
(not by me!), including the 25 footer.


I dont think I could answer that question, although in many instances
builder and designers have lowered that point, when compared with
earlier GRP production boats, but a much debatable subject.

If you plan to go out there, you had better be able to answer it.
Every choice you make for gear and planning will have this in the
background.

One of the biggest mistakes people make is not understanding how they
will really use their boat, especially cruising sailboats. It seems
that some buyers equate the number of berths with blue water
capability, or stainless fittings with quality construction. Other
buyers are obsessed with getting the strongest, heaviest boat possible
when they never leave their protected bay. It seems like every few
weeks someone here asks advice on the proper boat for ocean passages,
because they plan to learn to sail next year and want the right boat.




Some boats are designed with specific usage. But some near coastal
craft have been taken on circumnavigations -blue water.

Absolutely true. However, when you hear of a boat foundering in a 40
knot gale offshore, you usually find its a lightweight coastal
cruiser, or a poorly maintained older boat.

And remember - you've been "surprised" that more boats don't have
provisions for emergency rudders. Most of these coastal boats don't,
in fact relatively few passage makers nowadays have that.


There is, of course, a flip side to this. I have friends who bought
heavy weather boats for the security they offer, then found its not
worth raising sail until its blowing 20; others have light air boats
that need to be reefed above 15. But this is a somewhat different
design issue.


Yep, that is somewhat of the issue I have in deciding
between 2 boats.


The couple that used a Westsail for an ICW trip found that using a
tiller on such a heavy boat was just too much of a pain. They gave it
up soon after returning.

...

Simple I take the "statement" as reasonable fact based on experience
and practically every cruiser log published on the net.
That the average sustained winds are usually less than about 21 knots,
certain geographically noted exceptions excluded.


Yes, this is true. Just not relevant to the discussion.

????But this discussion always seems to focus around this issue.
I can say no more.



How are they configured? Are they production original, is one a
homebrew or off the shelf?


Off the shelf, standard configuration, 100 built, plus another 100 of
related designs. On most boats of my design, the rudder is a balanced
spade, and I've know of one case where one of the rudders got jammed
and had to be disconnected. My boat, and about a third of the newer
sisterships, has a skeg hung rudder. Handling under sail suffers a
bit, though I'm not sure its really a downside, since I don't use it
for "round the buoys" racing.


Are you a boat designer?

Nope, although that was my first major in school. I found my talents
lie elsewhe I spent the last 25 years as a computer programmer.



BTW, many of the other boats I considered had similar setups. The
sailboat next to me in the yard had twin rudders, and one of the other
sailboats on my dock, of a completely different style, also has twin
rudders.


How are the twin rudders configured? What make of boat? I have seen a
mono with a spade rudder and a transom hung one as well but this was
an after design and more based on a emerg. 2nd rudder.


I suppose I have to tell eventually ... I have a catamaran, a PDQ 36.
One rudder on each hull, off course, tied together with a crosslink
attached to each quadrant. One is driven by a cable from the wheel;
each can accept a tiller from above. Although space, speed, and
stability were the primary factors in going with a cat, the safety of
twin rudders, twin engines, and the flotation of twin hulls were a
significant part of the decision.

Jeff
www.sv-loki.com

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:19:56 -0400, Jeff wrote:

Mic wrote:


Good point, but to then figure that it has to be bullit proof is it
reasonable for it to be built to withstand what max force? Where do
you draw the line? That is my point.

Somewhere above the average wind and below a Force 5 hurricane.

Yep sounds "exactly right"...:}}


There is a difference in the intent, but 30 knots is 30 knots
regardless of the intent. This is a discussion about design, not
intent. While daysailors have the option of never leaving the dock
unless the short term forecast is perfect, passage makers have made an
commitment to take whatever the sea offers.


Yes if they are already out in it, but in the logs of Bumfuzzle on
there way from panama to galapagoes in about 30 knots they were
beating to the weather and wave, they made the decision to turn and
run with the waves for the nearest port in SA.

http://www.bumfuzzle.com/LogsDates.htm

True, but they were still out in it. It just happened that in this
case, they had an alternative. If they didn't have the alternative,
would they have abandoned ship?

I dont know, what do you think? But if they knew what the weather was
would they have changed the time they left?


Also if you read bill_dietrich logs at:
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dietri...agnoliaLog.txt
Currently in Bahamas, you will see how many boats leave an anchorage
and them shortly return...

Seen it all the time, been there myself. It doesn't change a thing.
You must assume that every now and them you'll be caught in stronger
winds than you normally are comfortable in. Frankly, these people are
lucky that the weak link is their own nerve (or their stomachs),
rather than the boat.

Well if you read their logs particularly the ones in New Zealand and
the issues with the SA builder of their Wild Cat, be very thankful you
have a PDQ. I doubt it has to do with there nerve, rather the fact
that they had issues beating to the weather and were making poor
distance over ground.

I've never been happy on a boat that I don't
have a lot of faith in - I like to think that the boat and its gear
can handle any situation I'm willing to get into.

...


So what would you think is a reasonable design point? In all of the
larger boats I've owned, I've been out in 40+ knots, anchored in 50+,
and had 60+ at the dock. All of them have made Atlantic crossings
(not by me!), including the 25 footer.


I dont think I could answer that question, although in many instances
builder and designers have lowered that point, when compared with
earlier GRP production boats, but a much debatable subject.

If you plan to go out there, you had better be able to answer it.
Every choice you make for gear and planning will have this in the
background.

Really? I know exactly what mods I feel would be necessary and
satisfied with. I dont believe anyone really knows what the necessary
design point is, like you said " somewhere between average winds and
Force 5 hurricane" hummm...wouldnt that be about 100 mph spread?

It has been said so many times that in such situations it becomes more
of an issue of sailing ability (decisions) than necessarily the boat.


One of the biggest mistakes people make is not understanding how they
will really use their boat, especially cruising sailboats. It seems
that some buyers equate the number of berths with blue water
capability, or stainless fittings with quality construction. Other
buyers are obsessed with getting the strongest, heaviest boat possible
when they never leave their protected bay. It seems like every few
weeks someone here asks advice on the proper boat for ocean passages,
because they plan to learn to sail next year and want the right boat.




Some boats are designed with specific usage. But some near coastal
craft have been taken on circumnavigations -blue water.

Absolutely true. However, when you hear of a boat foundering in a 40
knot gale offshore, you usually find its a lightweight coastal
cruiser, or a poorly maintained older boat.

And remember - you've been "surprised" that more boats don't have
provisions for emergency rudders. Most of these coastal boats don't,
in fact relatively few passage makers nowadays have that.

Any passage maker who hasnt considered or mad provision for an emerg
rudder.....good luck to them they will need it.



There is, of course, a flip side to this. I have friends who bought
heavy weather boats for the security they offer, then found its not
worth raising sail until its blowing 20; others have light air boats
that need to be reefed above 15. But this is a somewhat different
design issue.


Yep, that is somewhat of the issue I have in deciding
between 2 boats.


The couple that used a Westsail for an ICW trip found that using a
tiller on such a heavy boat was just too much of a pain. They gave it
up soon after returning.

...

Simple I take the "statement" as reasonable fact based on experience
and practically every cruiser log published on the net.
That the average sustained winds are usually less than about 21 knots,
certain geographically noted exceptions excluded.


Yes, this is true. Just not relevant to the discussion.

????But this discussion always seems to focus around this issue.
I can say no more.



How are they configured? Are they production original, is one a
homebrew or off the shelf?


Off the shelf, standard configuration, 100 built, plus another 100 of
related designs. On most boats of my design, the rudder is a balanced
spade, and I've know of one case where one of the rudders got jammed
and had to be disconnected. My boat, and about a third of the newer
sisterships, has a skeg hung rudder. Handling under sail suffers a
bit, though I'm not sure its really a downside, since I don't use it
for "round the buoys" racing.


Are you a boat designer?

Nope, although that was my first major in school. I found my talents
lie elsewhe I spent the last 25 years as a computer programmer.



BTW, many of the other boats I considered had similar setups. The
sailboat next to me in the yard had twin rudders, and one of the other
sailboats on my dock, of a completely different style, also has twin
rudders.


How are the twin rudders configured? What make of boat? I have seen a
mono with a spade rudder and a transom hung one as well but this was
an after design and more based on a emerg. 2nd rudder.


I suppose I have to tell eventually ... I have a catamaran, a PDQ 36.
One rudder on each hull, off course, tied together with a crosslink
attached to each quadrant. One is driven by a cable from the wheel;
each can accept a tiller from above. Although space, speed, and
stability were the primary factors in going with a cat, the safety of
twin rudders, twin engines, and the flotation of twin hulls were a
significant part of the decision.

Hahaha...yep that sure answers the 2 rudder question. I am familar
with the PDQ, I' m sure Bumfuzzle would rather have one. There cat is
about 3 years new in N. Zealand they had a delam of the cored hull.
The one of the saildrive diesels overheated, etc.......

Some cat owners put no-skid on the underside of the bridge deck as it
makes a more comfortable platform when or if they turn turtle.....

Do you know:
http://www.tendervittles.net/index.html
on a PDQ Tom and Amy.....
Probably one of my most favorite life/sailing adventures posted on the
net that I have found, Bumfuzzle is interesting to.

Jeff
www.sv-loki.com

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:35:20 GMT, (Mic) wrote:

Much discussion deleted:

My point was the the generalization of average winds applies to very
little when considering how strong something has to be.

Good point, but to then figure that it has to be bullit proof is it
reasonable for it to be built to withstand what max force? Where do
you draw the line? That is my point.




Some years ago I was part of the team that designed and built several
oil production barges for use in the Java Sea. The design criteria for
the anchoring system was the "hundred year wave", i.e., the highest
recorded wave in the past 100 years.

Granted that was a design for a commercial vessel but when it comes to
boats I can't see much difference in pleasure boats and commercial
vessels. The highest wind I have personally encountered was in a
"Sumatra" which is a line squall common to the Malacca Straits region,
where winds exceeded 60 MPH.

As far as bimini design it might be noted that when the Sumatra hit
(at night) I had about 10 minutes warning during which the wind went
from approximately 7 MPH to 60+. I doubt that a PVC bimini wuold have
stayed with the boat -- at least in its original form.


Cheers,

Anon
)

Mic wrote:
True, but they were still out in it. It just happened that in this
case, they had an alternative. If they didn't have the alternative,
would they have abandoned ship?

I dont know, what do you think? But if they knew what the weather was
would they have changed the time they left?


Well, when they fell off to SA, they were only 100 miles off and
making little progress. Turning away made sense then, but I'm not
sure what the point of the hindsight is. I wouldn't bother going out
against a 30 knot headwind with an adverse current, but it isn't a
disaster when it happens. IIRC, when this happened last to us, we
changed plans and found an alternate destination.


Almost every time I've been "caught out" there was a forecast for
strong winds. Usually we were trying to "thread the needle" between
two weather systems. I'm sure my wife wishes a few of the episodes
never happened, but I have no regrets and think we did the correct
things. We never had a nasty problem, just a few hours of discomfort
and perhaps a little anxiety.


Also if you read bill_dietrich logs at:
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dietri...agnoliaLog.txt
Currently in Bahamas, you will see how many boats leave an anchorage
and them shortly return...

Seen it all the time, been there myself. It doesn't change a thing.
You must assume that every now and them you'll be caught in stronger
winds than you normally are comfortable in. Frankly, these people are
lucky that the weak link is their own nerve (or their stomachs),
rather than the boat.


Well if you read their logs particularly the ones in New Zealand and
the issues with the SA builder of their Wild Cat, be very thankful you
have a PDQ. I doubt it has to do with there nerve, rather the fact
that they had issues beating to the weather and were making poor
distance over ground.

Nothing wrong with changing course because of a headwind - that's part
of sailing.



If you plan to go out there, you had better be able to answer it.
Every choice you make for gear and planning will have this in the
background.


Really? I know exactly what mods I feel would be necessary and
satisfied with. I dont believe anyone really knows what the necessary
design point is, like you said " somewhere between average winds and
Force 5 hurricane" hummm...wouldnt that be about 100 mph spread?

Nobody knows for sure, but that can't stop you from making your best
guess. Here's an example: do you plan to cruise in hurricane season?
If so what would you do if there was a hurricane forecast? Would
you anchor? If so, that means you carry at least three anchors and
rodes, hopefully one of them well oversized. Thus, if you you don't
do that, you've decided that this is not an option for you. Do you
have jacklines and harnesses? If not, you've decided you can't handle
10 foot seas, Reef points? Sea anchor? And so on. I tend to be
conservative, but I'm also lazy and sometimes get paranoid in
unfamiliar situations. But so far, its always worked out.



It has been said so many times that in such situations it becomes more
of an issue of sailing ability (decisions) than necessarily the boat.


A good boat helps.

And remember - you've been "surprised" that more boats don't have
provisions for emergency rudders. Most of these coastal boats don't,
in fact relatively few passage makers nowadays have that.


Any passage maker who hasnt considered or mad provision for an emerg
rudder.....good luck to them they will need it.


True, but there are many ways to jury rig steering gear.

And, very, very few boats are designed as ready to go passage makers.
Why? Because although many people dream about it, very very few
actually do it.


I suppose I have to tell eventually ... I have a catamaran, a PDQ 36.
One rudder on each hull, off course, tied together with a crosslink
attached to each quadrant. One is driven by a cable from the wheel;
each can accept a tiller from above. Although space, speed, and
stability were the primary factors in going with a cat, the safety of
twin rudders, twin engines, and the flotation of twin hulls were a
significant part of the decision.


Hahaha...yep that sure answers the 2 rudder question. I am familar
with the PDQ, I' m sure Bumfuzzle would rather have one. There cat is
about 3 years new in N. Zealand they had a delam of the cored hull.
The one of the saildrive diesels overheated, etc.......

The delam certainly doesn't speak well for the builder, or the surveyor.

The saildrive overheated because the water pump impeller lost two
vanes - not exactly the manufacturer's fault. They should have added
temperature gauges so the overheat could be detected before it got
critical. Last summer we saw the temp climb too fast when we left a
mooring and were able to return and fix it within an hour. A faulty
impeller - it only had 20 hours on it! Again - a matter of decisions.
having seen an engine cook its paint off from overheating, I
wouldn't go out without temp gauges.


Some cat owners put no-skid on the underside of the bridge deck as it
makes a more comfortable platform when or if they turn turtle.....


Where did you pick up that nonsense? There's been almost no capsizes
of cruising cats - less than a dozen in the last 20 years if you only
count over 35 feet and actually being cruised by owners. And I've
never heard of a capsize that wasn't really caused by too much sail.

Do you know:
http://www.tendervittles.net/index.html
on a PDQ Tom and Amy.....
Probably one of my most favorite life/sailing adventures posted on the
net that I have found, Bumfuzzle is interesting to.

Yes, I've seen their site. We've crossed paths but never actually met.

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 20:27:17 -0400, Jeff wrote:

Mic wrote:
True, but they were still out in it. It just happened that in this
case, they had an alternative. If they didn't have the alternative,
would they have abandoned ship?

I dont know, what do you think? But if they knew what the weather was
would they have changed the time they left?


Well, when they fell off to SA, they were only 100 miles off and
making little progress. Turning away made sense then, but I'm not
sure what the point of the hindsight is. I wouldn't bother going out
against a 30 knot headwind with an adverse current, but it isn't a
disaster when it happens. IIRC, when this happened last to us, we
changed plans and found an alternate destination.


Almost every time I've been "caught out" there was a forecast for
strong winds. Usually we were trying to "thread the needle" between
two weather systems. I'm sure my wife wishes a few of the episodes
never happened, but I have no regrets and think we did the correct
things. We never had a nasty problem, just a few hours of discomfort
and perhaps a little anxiety.


Also if you read bill_dietrich logs at:
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dietri...agnoliaLog.txt
Currently in Bahamas, you will see how many boats leave an anchorage
and them shortly return...

Seen it all the time, been there myself. It doesn't change a thing.
You must assume that every now and them you'll be caught in stronger
winds than you normally are comfortable in. Frankly, these people are
lucky that the weak link is their own nerve (or their stomachs),
rather than the boat.


Well if you read their logs particularly the ones in New Zealand and
the issues with the SA builder of their Wild Cat, be very thankful you
have a PDQ. I doubt it has to do with there nerve, rather the fact
that they had issues beating to the weather and were making poor
distance over ground.

Nothing wrong with changing course because of a headwind - that's part
of sailing.

I believe they made the right decision, to have done so much tacking
in an uncomfortable situation.



If you plan to go out there, you had better be able to answer it.
Every choice you make for gear and planning will have this in the
background.


Really? I know exactly what mods I feel would be necessary and
satisfied with. I dont believe anyone really knows what the necessary
design point is, like you said " somewhere between average winds and
Force 5 hurricane" hummm...wouldnt that be about 100 mph spread?

Nobody knows for sure, but that can't stop you from making your best
guess. Here's an example: do you plan to cruise in hurricane season?

Possibly, but not necessarly make a decision on what other cruisers
are doing.

If so what would you do if there was a hurricane forecast?

That really depends, on where you were.

Would
you anchor?

Again depends where you are and what force it is.

If so, that means you carry at least three anchors and
rodes, hopefully one of them well oversized. Thus, if you you don't
do that, you've decided that this is not an option for you. Do you
have jacklines and harnesses?

Certainly would.

f not, you've decided you can't handle
10 foot seas, Reef points? Sea anchor? And so on. I tend to be
conservative, but I'm also lazy and sometimes get paranoid in
unfamiliar situations. But so far, its always worked out.



It has been said so many times that in such situations it becomes more
of an issue of sailing ability (decisions) than necessarily the boat.


A good boat helps.

Yep

And remember - you've been "surprised" that more boats don't have
provisions for emergency rudders. Most of these coastal boats don't,
in fact relatively few passage makers nowadays have that.


Any passage maker who hasnt considered or mad provision for an emerg
rudder.....good luck to them they will need it.


True, but there are many ways to jury rig steering gear.

And, very, very few boats are designed as ready to go passage makers.
Why? Because although many people dream about it, very very few
actually do it.

Yep


I suppose I have to tell eventually ... I have a catamaran, a PDQ 36.
One rudder on each hull, off course, tied together with a crosslink
attached to each quadrant. One is driven by a cable from the wheel;
each can accept a tiller from above. Although space, speed, and
stability were the primary factors in going with a cat, the safety of
twin rudders, twin engines, and the flotation of twin hulls were a
significant part of the decision.


Hahaha...yep that sure answers the 2 rudder question. I am familar
with the PDQ, I' m sure Bumfuzzle would rather have one. There cat is
about 3 years new in N. Zealand they had a delam of the cored hull.
The one of the saildrive diesels overheated, etc.......

The delam certainly doesn't speak well for the builder, or the surveyor.

yep

The saildrive overheated because the water pump impeller lost two
vanes - not exactly the manufacturer's fault. They should have added
temperature gauges so the overheat could be detected before it got
critical. Last summer we saw the temp climb too fast when we left a
mooring and were able to return and fix it within an hour. A faulty
impeller - it only had 20 hours on it! Again - a matter of decisions.
having seen an engine cook its paint off from overheating, I
wouldn't go out without temp gauges.

Actually as I remember it -
when the heat exchanger for the water system was put in the temp
warning cable was too short so it was never connected to the buzzer
system - it cost them the engine.


Some cat owners put no-skid on the underside of the bridge deck as it
makes a more comfortable platform when or if they turn turtle.....


Where did you pick up that nonsense? There's been almost no capsizes
of cruising cats - less than a dozen in the last 20 years if you only
count over 35 feet and actually being cruised by owners. And I've
never heard of a capsize that wasn't really caused by too much sail.

In New Zealand during Bumfuzzle hull repair the yard put no=skid on
the bridge deck for that very reason - the underside.

Cats are becoming even more popular and have significant advantages
for passage making. They are more expense to buy and maintain. And I
havent seen one for under 10k like alot of 26 = 28 monohulls.

Do you know:
http://www.tendervittles.net/index.html
on a PDQ Tom and Amy.....
Probably one of my most favorite life/sailing adventures posted on the
net that I have found, Bumfuzzle is interesting to.

Yes, I've seen their site. We've crossed paths but never actually met.

I really like their writing style, they are very witty....

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 07:09:04 +0700, wrote:






On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:35:20 GMT, (Mic) wrote:

Much discussion deleted:

My point was the the generalization of average winds applies to very
little when considering how strong something has to be.

Good point, but to then figure that it has to be bullit proof is it
reasonable for it to be built to withstand what max force? Where do
you draw the line? That is my point.




Some years ago I was part of the team that designed and built several
oil production barges for use in the Java Sea. The design criteria for
the anchoring system was the "hundred year wave", i.e., the highest
recorded wave in the past 100 years.

Granted that was a design for a commercial vessel but when it comes to
boats I can't see much difference in pleasure boats and commercial
vessels. The highest wind I have personally encountered was in a
"Sumatra" which is a line squall common to the Malacca Straits region,
where winds exceeded 60 MPH.

As far as bimini design it might be noted that when the Sumatra hit
(at night) I had about 10 minutes warning during which the wind went
from approximately 7 MPH to 60+. I doubt that a PVC bimini wuold have
stayed with the boat -- at least in its original form.

Maybe even any bimini...
It seems less likely that a dodger will be made from ABS (abs is much
better than PVC), regardless should I build any such thing I would
certainly do my own tests first.


Cheers,

Anon
)

While reading rec.boats.cruising, I noticed Jeff felt
compelled to write:

Mic wrote:

Some cat owners put no-skid on the underside of the bridge deck as it
makes a more comfortable platform when or if they turn turtle.....


Where did you pick up that nonsense? There's been almost no capsizes
of cruising cats - less than a dozen in the last 20 years if you only
count over 35 feet and actually being cruised by owners. And I've
never heard of a capsize that wasn't really caused by too much sail.

Heh, another mono -v- multi fable. The fairing time and expense saved
by applying non-skid to out of sight areas is the main reason to do
this, of course. Nobody actually expects to ever walk on the stuff,
but if the unthinkable happens, it's another form of preparation.

Reefing early to gust speed and keeping enough sea-room to bear off
will keep any modern, well designed multihull right-side-up.

Ian

Mic wrote:

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 07:09:04 +0700, wrote:

As far as bimini design it might be noted that when the Sumatra hit
(at night) I had about 10 minutes warning during which the wind went
from approximately 7 MPH to 60+. I doubt that a PVC bimini wuold have
stayed with the boat -- at least in its original form.

That's for sure.

Maybe even any bimini...
It seems less likely that a dodger will be made from ABS (abs is much
better than PVC), regardless should I build any such thing I would
certainly do my own tests first.

Actually a standard, well-designed stainless tube and canvas bimini will survive
hurricane force winds with no problem. A friend has a full cockpit cover on his
50' sailboat. The cover stays on all year. Hurricane force winds have been
logged by the instruments every winter, with no damage in 20 years.

Sometimes you do get what you pay for.

Matt O.

"Matt O'Toole" wrote in
:

Actually a standard, well-designed stainless tube and canvas bimini
will survive hurricane force winds with no problem.

I've seen power boaters test this theory on their way to the boatramp.
Some of those open biminis have been trailered over 70 MPH! Some don't
survive, however, mostly those cheap OEM ones the boats came with....(d^

--
Larry

You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and your outlined in
chalk.

Larry W4CSC wrote:
"Matt O'Toole" wrote in
:


Actually a standard, well-designed stainless tube and canvas bimini
will survive hurricane force winds with no problem.


I've seen power boaters test this theory on their way to the boatramp.
Some of those open biminis have been trailered over 70 MPH! Some don't
survive, however, mostly those cheap OEM ones the boats came with....(d^


Larry

You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and your outlined
in chalk.

Should read:

You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and you're
outlined in chalk.

It reflects badly to see gross elementary errors on a calling card.
Please fix it.

Please don't take this as criticism, I'm trying to help.

Thank you, Terry K

My dodger frame is made from fiberglass chimney rods. Flexible,
cheap, strong.

Terry K