Mic wrote:


Good point, but to then figure that it has to be bullit proof is it
reasonable for it to be built to withstand what max force? Where do
you draw the line? That is my point.

Somewhere above the average wind and below a Force 5 hurricane.


There is a difference in the intent, but 30 knots is 30 knots
regardless of the intent. This is a discussion about design, not
intent. While daysailors have the option of never leaving the dock
unless the short term forecast is perfect, passage makers have made an
commitment to take whatever the sea offers.


Yes if they are already out in it, but in the logs of Bumfuzzle on
there way from panama to galapagoes in about 30 knots they were
beating to the weather and wave, they made the decision to turn and
run with the waves for the nearest port in SA.

http://www.bumfuzzle.com/LogsDates.htm

True, but they were still out in it. It just happened that in this
case, they had an alternative. If they didn't have the alternative,
would they have abandoned ship?


Also if you read bill_dietrich logs at:
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dietri...agnoliaLog.txt
Currently in Bahamas, you will see how many boats leave an anchorage
and them shortly return...

Seen it all the time, been there myself. It doesn't change a thing.
You must assume that every now and them you'll be caught in stronger
winds than you normally are comfortable in. Frankly, these people are
lucky that the weak link is their own nerve (or their stomachs),
rather than the boat. I've never been happy on a boat that I don't
have a lot of faith in - I like to think that the boat and its gear
can handle any situation I'm willing to get into.

....


So what would you think is a reasonable design point? In all of the
larger boats I've owned, I've been out in 40+ knots, anchored in 50+,
and had 60+ at the dock. All of them have made Atlantic crossings
(not by me!), including the 25 footer.


I dont think I could answer that question, although in many instances
builder and designers have lowered that point, when compared with
earlier GRP production boats, but a much debatable subject.

If you plan to go out there, you had better be able to answer it.
Every choice you make for gear and planning will have this in the
background.

One of the biggest mistakes people make is not understanding how they
will really use their boat, especially cruising sailboats. It seems
that some buyers equate the number of berths with blue water
capability, or stainless fittings with quality construction. Other
buyers are obsessed with getting the strongest, heaviest boat possible
when they never leave their protected bay. It seems like every few
weeks someone here asks advice on the proper boat for ocean passages,
because they plan to learn to sail next year and want the right boat.




Some boats are designed with specific usage. But some near coastal
craft have been taken on circumnavigations -blue water.

Absolutely true. However, when you hear of a boat foundering in a 40
knot gale offshore, you usually find its a lightweight coastal
cruiser, or a poorly maintained older boat.

And remember - you've been "surprised" that more boats don't have
provisions for emergency rudders. Most of these coastal boats don't,
in fact relatively few passage makers nowadays have that.


There is, of course, a flip side to this. I have friends who bought
heavy weather boats for the security they offer, then found its not
worth raising sail until its blowing 20; others have light air boats
that need to be reefed above 15. But this is a somewhat different
design issue.


Yep, that is somewhat of the issue I have in deciding
between 2 boats.


The couple that used a Westsail for an ICW trip found that using a
tiller on such a heavy boat was just too much of a pain. They gave it
up soon after returning.

...

Simple I take the "statement" as reasonable fact based on experience
and practically every cruiser log published on the net.
That the average sustained winds are usually less than about 21 knots,
certain geographically noted exceptions excluded.


Yes, this is true. Just not relevant to the discussion.

????But this discussion always seems to focus around this issue.
I can say no more.



How are they configured? Are they production original, is one a
homebrew or off the shelf?


Off the shelf, standard configuration, 100 built, plus another 100 of
related designs. On most boats of my design, the rudder is a balanced
spade, and I've know of one case where one of the rudders got jammed
and had to be disconnected. My boat, and about a third of the newer
sisterships, has a skeg hung rudder. Handling under sail suffers a
bit, though I'm not sure its really a downside, since I don't use it
for "round the buoys" racing.


Are you a boat designer?

Nope, although that was my first major in school. I found my talents
lie elsewhe I spent the last 25 years as a computer programmer.



BTW, many of the other boats I considered had similar setups. The
sailboat next to me in the yard had twin rudders, and one of the other
sailboats on my dock, of a completely different style, also has twin
rudders.


How are the twin rudders configured? What make of boat? I have seen a
mono with a spade rudder and a transom hung one as well but this was
an after design and more based on a emerg. 2nd rudder.


I suppose I have to tell eventually ... I have a catamaran, a PDQ 36.
One rudder on each hull, off course, tied together with a crosslink
attached to each quadrant. One is driven by a cable from the wheel;
each can accept a tiller from above. Although space, speed, and
stability were the primary factors in going with a cat, the safety of
twin rudders, twin engines, and the flotation of twin hulls were a
significant part of the decision.

Jeff
www.sv-loki.com