Regardless of how it happened, assume it did.
1. Ease mainsheet to allow boat to begin to right itself.
2. Begin furling the jib (yes, it will furl on any point of sail).
while easing its sheets.

I forget that many boats do not have all sail halyards led to cockpit
and going up onto the cabin top in a broach must be frightening. Sails
are cheap, life isnt, let em flog if necessary
Forget sillies who claim to eschew engine use. Boats have engines for
a reason, in danger, use it.

BTW, my old non-roller furling jib had a downhaul for just such
occasions for FL thunderstorms.
Would a downhaul led to the cockpit work for the main? With any force
on the main, it will not fall by itself but you can always muscle it
down unless it gets caught in the spreaders.

Mostly, I agree...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Regardless of how it happened, assume it did.
1. Ease mainsheet to allow boat to begin to right itself.
2. Begin furling the jib (yes, it will furl on any point of sail).
while easing its sheets.

That's good if you can do it. Sometimes, the pressure is so great on the
jib, that I've found it impossible to furl or when furled doesn't furl the
whole way because the jib becomes wound too tight and runs out.

I forget that many boats do not have all sail halyards led to cockpit
and going up onto the cabin top in a broach must be frightening. Sails
are cheap, life isnt, let em flog if necessary
Forget sillies who claim to eschew engine use. Boats have engines for
a reason, in danger, use it.

Yes, but you need to be absolutely certain that lines are not in the water
of course.

BTW, my old non-roller furling jib had a downhaul for just such
occasions for FL thunderstorms.
Would a downhaul led to the cockpit work for the main? With any force
on the main, it will not fall by itself but you can always muscle it
down unless it gets caught in the spreaders.

Worked for my boat. If nothing else, it'll help. They're easy to rig.

wrote:
Regardless of how it happened, assume it did.
1. Ease mainsheet to allow boat to begin to right itself.

Throughout this thread no one has argumented anything else. No
disagreement here.

2. Begin furling the jib (yes, it will furl on any point of sail).
while easing its sheets.

As soon as the vessel rights itself in the squall, with lots of sail
draped all over the place, it will start sailing in some direction or
other. The most immediate issue is therefo what point of sail are
you trying to steer and why??

Without a clear strategy at this juncture, all you are going to achieve
is to set yourself up for your next broach (as two posters have clearly
demonstrated in their stories).

A crucial question in this strategy is whether you are trying to
achieve proper sail balance for going upwind or for running off.

Any attempt to overly simplify the issues is just a prescription for
more threshing around.

Have fun,

Henk Meuzelaar

wrote:
Regardless of how it happened, assume it did.
1. Ease mainsheet to allow boat to begin to right itself.

Check.

2. Begin furling the jib (yes, it will furl on any point of sail).
while easing its sheets.


Important point "while easing sheets." The jib may well furl on any
point of sail, but if it is flogging wildly then it will furl badly or
not at all. Several times I have seen people roll up their jibs in hard
gusts, and the upper part of the sail will be a gnarled-up baggy bundle
instead of a neat roll. This causes a lot of drag and may still have
exposed edges flogging, which *will* damage the sail and may make the
boat much more difficult to control.



I forget that many boats do not have all sail halyards led to cockpit
and going up onto the cabin top in a broach must be frightening.

If you're smart enough to hang on, it may be safer than the cockpit.

... Sails
are cheap, life isnt, let em flog if necessary

I disagree strongly.
1- shredded sails are expensive
2- it increases the danger from the boat being out of control, and
hugely increases the risk of snagging some part of the sail or sheet on
either the rig, deck fitting, or crew.

Forget sillies who claim to eschew engine use. Boats have engines for
a reason, in danger, use it.

Except that you may get a line in the prop, or an air lock, or a slug of
crud from the tank, etc etc. It's funny how an engine that runs
perfectly under calm circumstances cannot be relied on when it's an
"emergency."

Generally, if one cannot keep one's head and *sail* the boat thru a
squall, taking proper measures and keeping the boat under control, then
relying on an engine to magically take over when the sails are too scary
& uncontrollable will not succeed.

This kind of thinking is one reason why I advocate learning to sail in
small responsive boats with no engine. One afternoon of sailing a 14
footer in 15 ~ 20 knot winds will teach you more about how to handle a
25+ footer in a squall than a decade of furling & motoring.


BTW, my old non-roller furling jib had a downhaul for just such
occasions for FL thunderstorms.
Would a downhaul led to the cockpit work for the main? With any force
on the main, it will not fall by itself but you can always muscle it
down unless it gets caught in the spreaders.


A downhaul can be a good thing. Rarely see them on mainsails but it can
certainly work. If you have properly rigged lazyjacks, they reduce the
odds of getting things caught in the spreaders, too.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

wrote:

I was recently sailing in a 38' sloop rigged cruiser. Both the jib and
the main are the furling type.

I was caught off guard by a sudden 35 kt gust than pinned the sails
down hard. I fought to turn into the wind so that I can furl the
sails, but this was a real struggle, as the wind kept pushing the boat
out of irons and over on it's side. Unfortunately, the sails were not
reefed in the first place. Releasing the sheets helped ease the heel
angle, but caused a real mess as all the lines started whipping around
and getting tangled. Eventually, we managed to furl the sails, but it
was a real scare.

Any advice on what would have been the best way to handle that
situation?

Thanks,
Bob Bramble


Ease sheets, haul on reefing lines. Wake up! pay attention, reef
early. There are no plumbers at sea, Billy, and no excuses, neither.

Twenty lashes for you, Billy!

Do you have a "Competancy card?"

Jeeze the cops around here wear jackboots in their zodiaks.
Probably don't know what "heave to" means, though they yell it at
powerboats all the time.

They don't dare say it to a sailboater. Imagine if you can a bullet
head just upwind and abeam saying "Heave to!" while brandishing a
gun. Whatta ya gonna do? Helm hard over, one sunk zodiak, or an
attempted murder charge, or bullet holes in your sails? Disobediance
of a lawful command?

Or act stupid and toss over two beers?

Stupid human tricks, eh?

Terry K

In article .com,
wrote:

I was recently sailing in a 38' sloop rigged cruiser. Both the jib and
the main are the furling type.

I was caught off guard by a sudden 35 kt gust than pinned the sails
down hard. I fought to turn into the wind so that I can furl the
sails, but this was a real struggle, as the wind kept pushing the boat
out of irons and over on it's side. Unfortunately, the sails were not
reefed in the first place. Releasing the sheets helped ease the heel
angle, but caused a real mess as all the lines started whipping around
and getting tangled. Eventually, we managed to furl the sails, but it
was a real scare.

Any advice on what would have been the best way to handle that
situation?

Thanks,
Bob Bramble


I read the other posts to date and there's a lot of good stuff, albeit
confusing if you don't remember that all boats handle differently and
you have to deal with YOUR boat.

On a 50' charter boat in tradewind conditions, a squall with 35 knot
winds is sometimes best handled by heading down and surfing at fantastic
speeds. Letting the boat head up from a broad reach can *almost* toss
the "deck fluff" sunning on the foredeck overboard from the sudden heel.
(The Admiral and I were *not* amused.)

We've sailed 20-35 knots (gusting) in our little girl, though only on a
beam reach, and we were reefed, on the working jib and had prepared
otherwise. Was great fun.

But when surprised and overpressed, my first action is to ease the main
and feather toward the wind (NOT going head to wind, just luffing). If
things are still too hairy, I ease the jib or release and furl it. Main
flaps like crazy, but safety first, maintaining at least a bit of speed
for steerage.

Then, we have an option you don't: Release the main halyard and let the
main drop. Sloppy, but effective. You'll have to experiment with your
r/f main. Perhaps that's your first job, then crank in the wildly (but
intentionally) luffing jib.

If things REALLY have gone pear shaped, we just release the sheets and
let everything flog off to the side until we figure out what to do.
(maintain steerage!)

Heaving to with out boat is rarely possible. I got bit by motoring
through sheets twice, so rarely consider it until much later.

Of course, all this is improved with planning and by looking outside of
the boat. Most squalls can be seen coming IF you remember to look for
them every once in a while. Notice that there's often a different
quality of light well before squalls, sorta reddish even when the sun is
high. (Was reminded of that this afternoon.) ANY change gives a reason
to look up and around. A suddenly cooler breeze often evokes an
immediate call to strike sails. A dark band of clouds is not the only
warning.

And keep things neat, just in case. Your sheets should be ready to use,
and should not be be underfoot or intermingled.

You will have practiced your emergency procedures under benign
conditions, of course. Monday, the winds were right and no one was in
the way, so we sailed into the marina, engine ticking over but out of
gear. Got us applause as usual, but we don't do it to impress, we do it
for that time the engine died a couple of miles out and we had to sail
in with 15-20 behind too-big sails and just ahead of the REAL wind. Had
to gybe three times to get through the breakwaters and around the fuel
dock, but it wasn't that big a thing. Afterwards, we had a postmortem to
improve our technique. (Have more fuel in the tank!)

Getting caught off guard was about the middle of your chain of mistakes.
I suspect some of them won't happen next time. If you're like me, you'll
wake up some nights "dealing" with some emergency in your dreams.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/