The pictures of the Panama Canal locks made me think of this set of
locks. The lift of 169 feet for the 5 locks is double the total lift
in the Panama Canal locks. Where is it?

http://www.sv-loki.com/where5.jpg

Cool! I was supposed to be going through there in about two weeks.
The best laid plans...

--

Roger Long



"Jeff" wrote in message
...
The pictures of the Panama Canal locks made me think of this set of
locks. The lift of 169 feet for the 5 locks is double the total
lift in the Panama Canal locks. Where is it?

http://www.sv-loki.com/where5.jpg

Roger Long wrote:
Cool! I was supposed to be going through there in about two weeks.
The best laid plans...


In case you haven't guessed, this is the Waterford Flight, the first 5
locks in the new Erie Canal. It is also where the Champlain Canal
starts. The Waterford Flight is the largest lift in the shortest
distance of any lock system in the world.

Roger Long wrote:
Cool! I was supposed to be going through there in about two weeks. The
best laid plans...


Jeff wrote:
In case you haven't guessed, this is the Waterford Flight, the first 5
locks in the new Erie Canal.

??

How "new" is it?

Anyway, I'm not going to say you're wrong, but it looks nothing at all
like my charts of the area. We were just reviewing that chart book,
planning a Great Loop cruise.


... It is also where the Champlain Canal
starts.

No, that's not true. The Champlain Canal starts many miles up the
Hudson. The *route* to the Champlain Canal, and thence to Lake
Champlain, starts there.

... The Waterford Flight is the largest lift in the shortest
distance of any lock system in the world.

Take a look at Dempolis, Alabama.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:
Roger Long wrote:

Cool! I was supposed to be going through there in about two weeks.
The best laid plans...


Jeff wrote:

In case you haven't guessed, this is the Waterford Flight, the first 5
locks in the new Erie Canal.


??

How "new" is it?

Roughly 100 years newer than the old Erie Canal. They are two
different canals. The original was opened in 1825. In 1905 they
started completely rebuilding, including abandoning much of the
original route. The "new" canal was opened in 1918.



Anyway, I'm not going to say you're wrong, but it looks nothing at all
like my charts of the area. We were just reviewing that chart book,
planning a Great Loop cruise.


Are you sure you have the correct chart? Chart 14786, page E-40 (on
my 1998 edition).




... It is also where the Champlain Canal starts.


No, that's not true. The Champlain Canal starts many miles up the
Hudson. The *route* to the Champlain Canal, and thence to Lake
Champlain, starts there.

The first lock on the Champlain Canal is 2.5 miles north of where the
Erie joins the Hudson, though it is still in Waterford. And the
Federal Lock at Troy is 2 miles south. Every reference I've ever
seen (including chart 14786 and the NY State Barge Canal site lists
Waterford as the beginning.




... The Waterford Flight is the largest lift in the shortest distance
of any lock system in the world.


Take a look at Dempolis, Alabama.

The lift at Demopolis is 40 feet, and there are no other locks for
many miles. The lift at the Waterford Flight is 169 feet.

How "new" is it?


Jeff wrote:
Roughly 100 years newer than the old Erie Canal. They are two different
canals. The original was opened in 1825. In 1905 they started
completely rebuilding, including abandoning much of the original route.
The "new" canal was opened in 1918.


IIRC the original followed the natural course of the Mohawk River. The
new one goes a bit north of there.




Anyway, I'm not going to say you're wrong, but it looks nothing at all
like my charts of the area. We were just reviewing that chart book,
planning a Great Loop cruise.


Are you sure you have the correct chart? Chart 14786, page E-40 (on my
1998 edition).


My chart is a bit older than that, but how much has it changed? My
charts are on the boat. Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing it in person.





... It is also where the Champlain Canal starts.



No, that's not true. The Champlain Canal starts many miles up the
Hudson. The *route* to the Champlain Canal, and thence to Lake
Champlain, starts there.


The first lock on the Champlain Canal is 2.5 miles north of where the
Erie joins the Hudson, though it is still in Waterford. And the
Federal Lock at Troy is 2 miles south. Every reference I've ever seen
(including chart 14786 and the NY State Barge Canal site lists Waterford
as the beginning.


What I meant is that the route to Lake Champlain follows the natural
course of the Hudson for many miles... up to Fort Anna at least IIRC.
It's not a "canal."

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:
How "new" is it?



Jeff wrote:

Roughly 100 years newer than the old Erie Canal. They are two
different canals. The original was opened in 1825. In 1905 they
started completely rebuilding, including abandoning much of the
original route. The "new" canal was opened in 1918.


IIRC the original followed the natural course of the Mohawk River. The
new one goes a bit north of there.

Jeeze, now you're going to make me go to the library and find some old
book on the original canal!

Actually, I thought the new canal made more use of the natural
waterways because it was designed for powerboats instead of mule power.

Anyway, I'm not going to say you're wrong, but it looks nothing at
all like my charts of the area. We were just reviewing that chart
book, planning a Great Loop cruise.


Are you sure you have the correct chart? Chart 14786, page E-40 (on
my 1998 edition).


My chart is a bit older than that, but how much has it changed? My
charts are on the boat. Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing it in person.

I can assure you that's a picture of the Waterford Flight. I assume
your chart is later than 1918!

Here's another view, from the north, with 3D tilt and vertical
exaggeration. Keyhole is fun! Well worth the $30 if you like this stuff.

http://www.sv-loki.com/where5a.jpg

... It is also where the Champlain Canal starts.

No, that's not true. The Champlain Canal starts many miles up the
Hudson. The *route* to the Champlain Canal, and thence to Lake
Champlain, starts there.


The first lock on the Champlain Canal is 2.5 miles north of where the
Erie joins the Hudson, though it is still in Waterford. And the
Federal Lock at Troy is 2 miles south. Every reference I've ever
seen (including chart 14786 and the NY State Barge Canal site lists
Waterford as the beginning.


What I meant is that the route to Lake Champlain follows the natural
course of the Hudson for many miles... up to Fort Anna at least IIRC.
It's not a "canal."

You're confusing "canal" with "cut." Many canals incorporate
significant portions of natural waterways. And remember, the Hudson
is locked above Troy, so it isn't really a natural waterway there.

OK, here's a "Believe It Or Not" fact about the Hudson. The first
lock on the Hudson is at Troy, just below the Waterford Flight. Up
until that point, the river is tidal, even though it is 120 nautical
miles from NYC. What I didn't expect is that the tidal range at Troy
(4.7 feet) is actually more than at NYC (4.4 feet at Chelsea Docks).
Further, the high water "wave" that crests in NYC takes 9 hours to
reach Troy. By the time it is high there, its already several hours
past Low Water in the city!

IIRC the original followed the natural course of the Mohawk River. The
new one goes a bit north of there.

Jeff wrote:
Jeeze, now you're going to make me go to the library and find some old
book on the original canal!


Well, a few minutes with Google produces some interesting results.
Didn't find an old map of the channel though.
http://www.canals.state.ny.us/ccultu...nch/index.html


Actually, I thought the new canal made more use of the natural waterways
because it was designed for powerboats instead of mule power.


The official history says the old canal was designed to follow as
closely as possible. It looks like they decided in a number of places
that aqueducts were cheaper than locks.


Anyway, I'm not going to say you're wrong, but it looks nothing at
all like my charts of the area. We were just reviewing that chart
book, planning a Great Loop cruise.


Are you sure you have the correct chart? Chart 14786, page E-40 (on
my 1998 edition).


My chart is a bit older than that, but how much has it changed? My
charts are on the boat. Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing it in
person.


I can assure you that's a picture of the Waterford Flight. I assume
your chart is later than 1918!

Here's another view, from the north, with 3D tilt and vertical
exaggeration. Keyhole is fun! Well worth the $30 if you like this stuff.

http://www.sv-loki.com/where5a.jpg


Now there's a cool picture. That one includes the big rapids just south
of the modern canal, which I would (probably) have recognized from the
chart. It looks like the old canal follows along south of the river bank
in places.


What I meant is that the route to Lake Champlain follows the natural
course of the Hudson for many miles... up to Fort Anna at least IIRC.

That's wrong. My memory isn't what I used to think it was. Fort Anna is
above Hudson Falls....


It's not a "canal."


You're confusing "canal" with "cut." Many canals incorporate
significant portions of natural waterways. And remember, the Hudson is
locked above Troy, so it isn't really a natural waterway there.


Now you're getting picky. If the "canal" coincides exactly with a
natural waterway, then you could in theory call the Atlantic Ocean a
"canal"!

Even above the locks, a lot of the natural Hudson is navigable without
dredging. Of course, if the locks weren't there, you couldn't get that
far...


OK, here's a "Believe It Or Not" fact about the Hudson. The first lock
on the Hudson is at Troy, just below the Waterford Flight. Up until
that point, the river is tidal, even though it is 120 nautical miles
from NYC. What I didn't expect is that the tidal range at Troy (4.7
feet) is actually more than at NYC (4.4 feet at Chelsea Docks). Further,
the high water "wave" that crests in NYC takes 9 hours to reach Troy.
By the time it is high there, its already several hours past Low Water
in the city!


Water is heavy, and stubborn. It is surprising that the tide range at
Troy is more than at NYC though. Last week we heard Skipper Bob give a
very good talk on navigating the Hudson. He says to leave NYC at 3 hours
after low tide to get the best boost from tide... somewhat
counterintuitive...

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 12:19:00 -0400, DSK wrote:

OK, here's a "Believe It Or Not" fact about the Hudson. The first lock
on the Hudson is at Troy, just below the Waterford Flight. Up until
that point, the river is tidal, even though it is 120 nautical miles
from NYC. What I didn't expect is that the tidal range at Troy (4.7
feet) is actually more than at NYC (4.4 feet at Chelsea Docks). Further,
the high water "wave" that crests in NYC takes 9 hours to reach Troy.
By the time it is high there, its already several hours past Low Water
in the city!


Water is heavy, and stubborn. It is surprising that the tide range at
Troy is more than at NYC though. Last week we heard Skipper Bob give a
very good talk on navigating the Hudson. He says to leave NYC at 3 hours
after low tide to get the best boost from tide... somewhat
counterintuitive...

It isn't really more than at NYC. Ft. Hamilton in NYC is also 4.7
feet. Other points between Troy and NYC are less. West Point, for
example, is 2.7 feet. Because it is very deep there, I guess the tidal
wave doesn't affect the surface as much, even though it is also rather
narrow.

I am not sure exactly where at West Point the reference is. The really
deep spot off Constitution Island is also the narrowest. In any case,
the currents are of more concern than the up and down in the river.


Rodney Myrvaagnes Opionated old geezer

Faith-based economics: It's deja voodoo all over again