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Some more dumb questions...
Hi all,
First of all, what's a "survey" - when is it necessary and how much does it cost? Next: How long would it take to sail single-handedly from S/England to the Windward Islands given average weather conditions at a reasonably favorable time of year in a Contessa 32 or Nic 32? Next: If one ends up in some distant safe harbor somewhere abroad; what right (if any) does one have to simply tie-up at a convenient mooring and go to sleep for say 24hrs? I'm thinking here about an analogy with a deckchair dude; do you just 'park-up' and wait for someone to charge you for your stay? And what prospect of getting a space in such a harbor? Finally, what's the difference between a "berth" and a "cabin"? I realize these are stupid questions, but beg your indulgence. -- "Suffer no one to tell you what to think." Martin Smith, the New Conservative Party. http://www.newconservativeparty.org |
Read some books, subscribe to a magezine, get an imagination and stop
trolling. "New Conservative" wrote in message ... Hi all, First of all, what's a "survey" - when is it necessary and how much does it cost? Next: How long would it take to sail single-handedly from S/England to the Windward Islands given average weather conditions at a reasonably favorable time of year in a Contessa 32 or Nic 32? Next: If one ends up in some distant safe harbor somewhere abroad; what right (if any) does one have to simply tie-up at a convenient mooring and go to sleep for say 24hrs? I'm thinking here about an analogy with a deckchair dude; do you just 'park-up' and wait for someone to charge you for your stay? And what prospect of getting a space in such a harbor? Finally, what's the difference between a "berth" and a "cabin"? I realize these are stupid questions, but beg your indulgence. -- "Suffer no one to tell you what to think." Martin Smith, the New Conservative Party. http://www.newconservativeparty.org |
New Conservative wrote in
: First of all, what's a "survey" - when is it necessary and how much does it cost? A so-called "expert", who's actually a guy in a funny hat that has hung around the docks for a few years and can't find reasonable work, charges you to beat and bang on it, look in all the crannies he can get to without doing manual labor, and tries to tear the current owners up nit picking everything that he can stumble onto that's wrong with the boat. He has vague computer knowledge and word processes up a boiler plate report on what he stumbled upon to take to the negotiations on price......unless, of course, he's on somebody's payroll you don't know about. Think "Used Lorry Salesman"....(c; Search the UK search engines for "Yacht Surveyor" to find prices. They vary widely. Here's the extensive webpages of an experienced surveyor the dealers must just HATE to see walking through the marina gate: http://www.yachtsurvey.com His name is David Pascoe and he's a first class SOB...just ask any boat manufacturer trying to pull a fast one.... Next: How long would it take to sail single-handedly from S/England to the Windward Islands given average weather conditions at a reasonably favorable time of year in a Contessa 32 or Nic 32? Makes no difference. You get there when you get there, if you get there at all. You are at the total mercy of wind and waves and storm fronts and your own incompetence..... You have two problems. Single handed isn't really legal by international law as you must "Maintain a Sharp Lookout" so you don't run into anything. Around The World Alone races are simply overlooked because they move lots of expensive products with the gunwale-to-gunwale advertising, so they get away with it. NEVER SAIL TO SEA ALONE is good advise. I don't care if you're a world class triathelon champion, the sea will wear your ass down in no time at all and you'll think you just can't lift another arm or take another turn on a winch, having given up hours ago because your arms feel like lead and you can't keep your eyes open.....This is why we stand 2 hour watches with the OTHER CREW MEMBERS who've been tossing and turning in their almost sleep trying to get some sleep before it's their turn, again. By day 6, noone talks to anyone any more. They're all too tired from being thrown about, 24/7 for 6 days to talk. If it's calm and everyone gets to rest, we don't GET ANYWHERE just sitting there with all the dirty laundry flapping restlessly NOT pulling the boat through the water. If it's windy, it's rough and sleep is hard, even though you're exhausted. TIME...... Time does not exist on a sailboat, whether it's a big slug of a cruising ketch or an ocean racer it takes 24 people to sail without flipping upside down. If anyone aboard HAS to be there on Wednesday Night....DON'T TAKE HIM ALONG! Everyone aboard must have nothing to do and no schedule for the next 8 weeks, even though we're sailing from S England to Ireland overnight. A sailboat is NOT A GOOD MODE OF TRANSPORT for modern people in a HURRY. Never hurry anyplace....unless, of course, you're racing other sailboats for the big trophy and braggin' rights. If you can't go, neither can they so it evens it up. RELAX and watch the waves....We'll get there when we get there..... Next: If one ends up in some distant safe harbor somewhere abroad; what right (if any) does one have to simply tie-up at a convenient mooring and go to sleep for say 24hrs? I'm thinking here about an analogy with a deckchair dude; do you just 'park-up' and wait for someone to charge you for your stay? And what prospect of getting a space in such a harbor? Pfat Chance. Imagine being confined to a pig sty. 3rd world countries have laws, but, if you have money and they want it, you're screwed. Do it all BY THE BOOK or there's gonna be serious trouble. That officer-in- charge of the gunboat off this little island fifedom doesn't give a **** that you're Her Majesty's nephew and CEO of Harrod's Department Store. He hates you. He makes less than your grocery store checkout girl back in Liverpool. Finally, what's the difference between a "berth" and a "cabin"? What's the difference between a "bed" and a "bedroom"? Same idea. I realize these are stupid questions, but beg your indulgence. - I see someone called you a troll. If you are, I've wasted 20 minutes. If you're not, everyone on here wondered the same things back before they could tell the main from the mizzen. Now, here's what you do. First, stow any idea about buying the Contessa, no matter how smooth the sales delivery was. If you don't know any more than you profess to, here, you need to CREW on a boat around England with a knowledgeable owner, like I do. Every yachtsman at your local marina needs a helping hand to fix his big monster, and an able hand to sail it. BEFRIEND THEM....None has ever bitten me, at least not yet. Once you learn the basics and they find out how nice a guy you are, not complaining and being so helpful by fixing whatever you can fix, your demand quotient goes WAY up. I'd rather crew on a boat I could never afford with a friendly captain and his family, than buy the boat I can really afford that's too small to go anywhere. I'm quite fortunate to be an electronics technician (demand is high) with marine experience (US Navy) and a fair seaman who doesn't like to drink the captain into the poorhouse. I'm his "Chief Engineer". He calls me and wants a new water pump for the fresh water. "I've left it in the V-berth. Do you think you could install it so we can go sailing when I come down next Thursday?", he'll hint. Of course I can! When do we leave?! My captain is "well off", he doesn't need more money. He's was forever trying to give me money for working on his boat. "I don't want your money, captain." (MUSIC TO THEIR EARS!) "Well, what do you want?", he asked me. "Simply take me with you.", was my answer. I've been going ever since....standing my watches, fixing and installing all the toys, rewiring what needs rewiring. Last week we moved from our old marina that's been bought out by some condo shysters to the City Marina which has free cable TV. So, I had to install a new LCD TV and wire the boat for cable TV. Now, the neighbor's wife, friends who moved en masse with us to the new marina to maintain the little community of dock family, has me scheduled to wire HER boat with cable TV, as soon as she's got the new LCD TV out of hubby...(c; Can you: ** Fix diesel engines...or at least troubleshoot one for simple problems? Change filters? Do dirty things to it? YOU'RE IN! ** Wire electrical DC and AC toys up in the boat? YOU'RE IN! ** Fix fresh water pumps, water heaters, simple plumbing, repair and refinish wood, fix mechanical things as simple as a pulley on a pin? YOU'RE IN! If my captain is coming on Thursday, I go down Wednesday night and clean up the boat, making sure it looks presentable so he can relax when he gets here. If I can be aboard, I'll beat him to it, as he comes 380 miles from Atlanta, GA, to Charleston. One of my favorite tricks to play on him is to be standing with a fresh-poured glass (specially engraved boat glass, of course) of his favorite English Ale, which I hand to him just after he clears the dock coming aboard. I don't think anything I do makes him smile wider...(c; He's not my boss...he's my friend....has been for 4 years, now. The boat's clean, the hot water heater's hot, ready for his shower in the little head. I just know I'm going to end up, tonight, fed in a fancy restaurant and too drunk to go home as the dockside party ensues. He worked like a dog all week refilling the boat's VISA card so we can buy more toys. You can learn to sail and have a helluva great time while you're doing it....in exchange for a little labor, your personal expertise and make a friend for life in the process. Do that before buying anything or just going blindly into the Contessa with no experience. Hell, if you're lucky, you'll be on some 55' cruiser headed for the Windward Islands at virtually no expense to you. My last month-long Florida vacation cost me $90...(c; Oh, by the way, the adrenaline rush of a big ketch 200 miles offshore with its toerail in the water just haulin' ass through the ocean in the 12' swells in a 35 knot "crosswind" is just fantastic! Go for it! |
.... jeez Larry, you do better work for free than most of the paid
engineer's I've had to work with ;-) -- =-------------------------------------------------= Renewontime A FREE email reminder service for licensed mariners http://www.renewontime.com =-------------------------------------------------= |
New Conservative wrote:
First of all, what's a "survey" - when is it necessary and how much does it cost? What it costs depends on the surveyor and the size of the boat. Usually is priced per foot of length. It something like what we over here call a home inspection and is done any time you are paying more for the boat than you can afford to lose if it turns out to have serious problems that you didn't see. Next: How long would it take to sail single-handedly from S/England to the Windward Islands given average weather conditions at a reasonably favorable time of year in a Contessa 32 or Nic 32? No idea. Next: If one ends up in some distant safe harbor somewhere abroad; what right (if any) does one have to simply tie-up at a convenient mooring and go to sleep for say 24hrs? I'm thinking here about an analogy with a deckchair dude; do you just 'park-up' and wait for someone to charge you for your stay? And what prospect of getting a space in such a harbor? When you go to a foreign country you need to be prepared to check in through customs and immigration. Part of being prepared is knowing what the requirements are for that country. It's different in different countries. You probably can't just take a mooring. Sometimes you can anchor while you take care of business but sometimes you have to tie up to a quay or dock (and pay for that). Usually you have to check in within 24 hours, and it is usually better to do this during business hours. For instance. If we go from the US to the Bahamas, we come into the harbor (one of the harbors that has officials available - you have to check on this in advance to know which ones are possible) flying the Bahamas courtesy flag and the Q flag (the quarantine flag which is yellow and indicates that we have not yet checked in). Then we tie up to a dock one person (the captain) goes to check in for everyone with the documents (like passports) of the crew and all the other persons on board with him/her. After the documents have been checked and approved, and the entry fee has been paid then you can take down the Q flag and the other persons can go ashore. Finally, what's the difference between a "berth" and a "cabin"? A berth is usually the bed and the cabin is the room it is in. A cabin may or may not have a berth in it. A berth can also be a place for a ship at the dock, or a job. You can say "I have a berth on that ship as a cook" That's not referring to the place you sleep, but to the job.. Also sometimes people refer to the forward cabin in the bow as the V-berth. That's because it is V-shaped and has one or two beds in it. I realize these are stupid questions, but beg your indulgence. grandma Rosalie |
Next: If one ends up in some distant safe harbor somewhere abroad;
what right (if any) does one have to simply tie-up at a convenient mooring and go to sleep for say 24hrs? After you've sailed for a while and got some education under your belt (isn't that what everyone recommended for your last post?), hopefully you'll know to look in the "Coastal Pilot" to find out specific information on anchorages and mooring restrictions. -- =-------------------------------------------------= Renewontime A FREE email reminder service for licensed mariners http://www.renewontime.com =-------------------------------------------------= |
Nick Temple-Fry wrote:
Read some books, subscribe to a magezine, get an imagination and stop trolling. "New Conservative" wrote in message ... Hi all, First of all, what's a "survey" - when is it necessary and how much does it cost? Next: How long would it take to sail single-handedly from S/England to the Windward Islands given average weather conditions at a reasonably favorable time of year in a Contessa 32 or Nic 32? Next: If one ends up in some distant safe harbor somewhere abroad; what right (if any) does one have to simply tie-up at a convenient mooring and go to sleep for say 24hrs? I'm thinking here about an analogy with a deckchair dude; do you just 'park-up' and wait for someone to charge you for your stay? And what prospect of getting a space in such a harbor? Finally, what's the difference between a "berth" and a "cabin"? I realize these are stupid questions, but beg your indulgence. -- "Suffer no one to tell you what to think." Martin Smith, the New Conservative Party. http://www.newconservativeparty.org Pity we didn't have Newsgroups when I learned to sail fifty-odd years ago. Didn't realise you could do it all from an armchair! We had things called books in those days. Like Larry, I find that being in demand because of my expertise results in some of the best sailing I have ever experienced. Beats working for a living! Dennis. -- Satellite photocharts of the UK & Ireland available, excellent detail and accurate calibration using Oziexplorer. Remove *nospam* to reply. |
Dennis Pogson wrote:
I find that being in demand because of my expertise results in some of the best sailing I have ever experienced. Beats working for a living! As Del Boy would say "What's that? The Parable of the lucky *******?". |
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"New Conservative" wrote in message ... Hi all, First of all, what's a "survey" - when is it necessary and how much does it cost? Next: How long would it take to sail single-handedly from S/England to the Windward Islands given average weather conditions at a reasonably favorable time of year in a Contessa 32 or Nic 32? Next: If one ends up in some distant safe harbor somewhere abroad; what right (if any) does one have to simply tie-up at a convenient mooring and go to sleep for say 24hrs? I'm thinking here about an analogy with a deckchair dude; do you just 'park-up' and wait for someone to charge you for your stay? And what prospect of getting a space in such a harbor? Finally, what's the difference between a "berth" and a "cabin"? I realize these are stupid questions, but beg your indulgence. -- "Suffer no one to tell you what to think." Martin Smith, the New Conservative Party. http://www.newconservativeparty.org Take a sailing course and all theses and other matters ( on which your life may depend ) will come clear. Don't attempt it until you have done a LOT of sailing. Do I gather from your spelling of harbour that you are American ? (If so it explains a lot). |
in message , New
Conservative ') wrote: Hi all, First of all, what's a "survey" - when is it necessary and how much does it cost? It's a careful inspection of a boat by a person qualified to know a great deal about boat construction and maintenance, leading to a report on the condition of the boat usually with a list of things which should be fixed. The cost varies from surveyor to surveyor but is usually a few hundred pounds plus travelling expenses. Next: How long would it take to sail single-handedly from S/England to the Windward Islands given average weather conditions at a reasonably favorable time of year in a Contessa 32 or Nic 32? A month to six weeks. Next: If one ends up in some distant safe harbor somewhere abroad; what right (if any) does one have to simply tie-up at a convenient mooring and go to sleep for say 24hrs? None at all. You must first clear customs and make arrangement with the harbour master. I'm thinking here about an analogy with a deckchair dude; do you just 'park-up' and wait for someone to charge you for your stay? And what prospect of getting a space in such a harbor? Finally, what's the difference between a "berth" and a "cabin"? A berth in a boat is essentially a bed; a cabin is essentially a room. Note that a berth in a harbour is somewhere you can fit a boat. -- (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/ ;; Semper in faecibus sumus, sole profundum variat. |
"New Conservative" wrote in message ... Hi all, First of all, what's a "survey" - when is it necessary and how much does it cost? Next: How long would it take to sail single-handedly from S/England to the Windward Islands Next: If one ends up in some distant safe harbor somewhere abroad; Finally, what's the difference between a "berth" and a "cabin"? I realize these are stupid questions, but beg your indulgence. I fear that you are in great danger of killing yourself and your crew with your incompetence and stupidity. This range of questions imply that you really have not a clue. If you take any training, you will realise that the sea is a very unforgiving environment. I strongly recommend that you start to learn to sail not on the internet but on a boat. Go out this weekend - take a course in a boat on the water. You are a very long way from taking a boat on the sea let alone the ocean. Gavin |
Gavin Collinson wrote:
"If you take any training, you will realise that the sea is a very unforgiving environment. " I think you could argue the exact opposite. It's soft and no dangerous in itself. You can make all sorts of mistakes in a yacht or powerboat that would be fatal in a car or motorcycle. Short of being tucked up in bed I think the sea is about the safest place you can be! |
"Dan" wrote in message oups.com... Gavin Collinson wrote: "If you take any training, you will realise that the sea is a very unforgiving environment. " I think you could argue the exact opposite. It's soft and no dangerous in itself. You can make all sorts of mistakes in a yacht or powerboat that would be fatal in a car or motorcycle. Short of being tucked up in bed I think the sea is about the safest place you can be! I disagree. I am a relatively new qualified coastal skipper and I am frequently surprised how quickly a sea will change from a benign environment to one that is dangerous and forbidding. In my short experience, you cannot take the sea for granted. In a car, you just pull into the next layby. Gavin |
Gavin Collinson wrote:
"Dan" wrote in message I disagree. I am a relatively new qualified coastal skipper and I am frequently surprised how quickly a sea will change from a benign environment to one that is dangerous and forbidding. Yet you have survived! Is it a miracle or was it perhaps very safe? In a car, you just pull into the next layby. Well you can equally say in a boat you just pop into shelter. A car you can die in a flash with no time to correct. In a boat you've always got time and you have to do a lot of very stupid things to get hurt. If you're so frightened of sailing, give up! If you've not stop trying to make your achievments look better by pretending you overcame great hardship! |
Duncan, are you still be ****ed about losing the colonies?
JR Duncan Heenan wrote: "New Conservative" wrote in message ... Hi all, First of all, what's a "survey" - when is it necessary and how much does it cost? Next: How long would it take to sail single-handedly from S/England to the Windward Islands given average weather conditions at a reasonably favorable time of year in a Contessa 32 or Nic 32? Next: If one ends up in some distant safe harbor somewhere abroad; what right (if any) does one have to simply tie-up at a convenient mooring and go to sleep for say 24hrs? I'm thinking here about an analogy with a deckchair dude; do you just 'park-up' and wait for someone to charge you for your stay? And what prospect of getting a space in such a harbor? Finally, what's the difference between a "berth" and a "cabin"? I realize these are stupid questions, but beg your indulgence. -- "Suffer no one to tell you what to think." Martin Smith, the New Conservative Party. http://www.newconservativeparty.org Take a sailing course and all theses and other matters ( on which your life may depend ) will come clear. Don't attempt it until you have done a LOT of sailing. Do I gather from your spelling of harbour that you are American ? (If so it explains a lot). |
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While choking on an orange the asphixiatingly tight latex collar began to
take effect as *Gavin Collinson* gapsed to *uk.rec.sailing* with a dying breath: I disagree. I am a relatively new qualified coastal skipper and I am frequently surprised how quickly a sea will change from a benign environment to one that is dangerous and forbidding. That's what drogues and sea anchors are for In my short experience, you cannot take the sea for granted. In a car, you just pull into the next layby. Our 'relative' lack of experience compared with some members of this group means that conditions we would shy away from and 'wish we weren't there' are just part and parsel of the sport for the die hards. When you read about the Vendee competitors having a 'Smooth Day' in the southern ocean when waves are only just topping 35 feet as opposed to the 60-80 footers they've had throughout the previous week, it puts our channel squalls into a bit of perspective. Not saying there should be no respect for the conditions, just an admission of the true scope of each of our abilities and a realisation of the limits that this sets. PG -- Keelworm: *www.love2sail.co.uk - UK Sailing Forums* |
While choking on an orange the asphixiatingly tight latex collar began to
take effect as *Dan* gapsed to *uk.rec.sailing* with a dying breath: Short of being tucked up in bed I think the sea is about the safest place you can be! Definitive proof you have *never* slept with mrs keelworm! PG -- Keelworm: *www.love2sail.co.uk - UK Sailing Forums* |
"Dan" wrote in message oups.com... Gavin Collinson wrote: "If you take any training, you will realise that the sea is a very unforgiving environment. " I think you could argue the exact opposite. It's soft and no dangerous in itself. You can make all sorts of mistakes in a yacht or powerboat that would be fatal in a car or motorcycle. Short of being tucked up in bed I think the sea is about the safest place you can be! I think you might find the sea a bit colder than your bed at the moment, even if softer. Survival time immersed? |
"Gavin Collinson" wrote in message ... "Dan" wrote in message oups.com... Gavin Collinson wrote: "If you take any training, you will realise that the sea is a very unforgiving environment. " I think you could argue the exact opposite. It's soft and no dangerous in itself. You can make all sorts of mistakes in a yacht or powerboat that would be fatal in a car or motorcycle. Short of being tucked up in bed I think the sea is about the safest place you can be! I disagree. I am a relatively new qualified coastal skipper and I am frequently surprised how quickly a sea will change from a benign environment to one that is dangerous and forbidding. In my short experience, you cannot take the sea for granted. In a car, you just pull into the next layby. Gavin Dan's a bul****ter. Ignore him |
"JR Gilbreath" wrote in message .. . Duncan, are you still be ****ed about losing the colonies? JR So you ARE American, and that DOES explain a lot! PS How do you like owning Afghanistan and Iraq? |
In article ,
Gavin Collinson wrote: I disagree. I am a relatively new qualified coastal skipper In which case I wouldn't argue too much with the sailors on this ng - they have about a million miles of experience in all continents and every weather condition -- A T (Sandy) Morton on the Bicycle Island In the Global Village http://www.millport.net |
Fine. How does it feel being a lap dog?
Duncan Heenan wrote: "JR Gilbreath" wrote in message .. . Duncan, are you still be ****ed about losing the colonies? JR So you ARE American, and that DOES explain a lot! PS How do you like owning Afghanistan and Iraq? |
JR Gilbreath wrote:
Fine. How does it feel being a lap dog? this coming from someone living in an economy so ****ed it depends on former commie pinko *******s the chinese to bankroll them while being forced to engage in illegal acts of war against sovereign states to secure a supply of oil in the meantime. hand on heart with absolute honesty, for MANY years I would have gladly swapped UK citizenship for USA citizenship, now, you probably could pay me to work there, but not in dollars.... -- Lithium ion internal and external batteries. Internal from £30 External from £75 (trade) All batteries factory new and guaranteed. http://www.surfbaud.co.uk/ e-mail (www.rot13.com) |
"JR Gilbreath" wrote in message .. . Fine. How does it feel being a lap dog? Duncan Heenan wrote: I wouldn't know. You should redirect your question to our dickhead of a Prime Minister, who no longer enjoys wide support (I never did support him). How does it feel being the World's Pariah? |
Hi Duncan
Sorry but there will not be any more OT's for me. By the way I have had some great mates that were Brits and also sailed with some of your great sailers (male and female). Cheers JR Duncan Heenan wrote: "JR Gilbreath" wrote in message .. . Fine. How does it feel being a lap dog? Duncan Heenan wrote: I wouldn't know. You should redirect your question to our dickhead of a Prime Minister, who no longer enjoys wide support (I never did support him). How does it feel being the World's Pariah? |
Duncan Heenan wrote:
"JR Gilbreath" wrote in message .. . Duncan, are you still be ****ed about losing the colonies? JR So you ARE American, and that DOES explain a lot! PS How do you like owning Afghanistan and Iraq? Fabulous! The price of gasoline is dropping like a stone thanks to, um, all that oil in Afghanistan! Stephen |
"Duncan Heenan" wrote:
"Dan" wrote in message roups.com... Gavin Collinson wrote: "If you take any training, you will realise that the sea is a very unforgiving environment. " I think you could argue the exact opposite. It's soft and no dangerous in itself. You can make all sorts of mistakes in a yacht or powerboat that would be fatal in a car or motorcycle. Or an airplane, even though air is not very hard in and of itself. Although water isn't that soft when you come into it from any height, and if you don't keep on top of it, it's pretty dangerous to your health unless you are a shark or fish. In any case, almost all the problems come with the interface with land from any type of vehicle or anything that moves a person around including their own feet. Arguing relative hazardousness isn't very productive unless it results in avoiding the hazards. Short of being tucked up in bed I think the sea is about the safest place you can be! I think you might find the sea a bit colder than your bed at the moment, even if softer. Survival time immersed? An occupational physician told me about the 50-50-50 rule. 50% of people survive 50 minutes in water that is 50 degrees (F). grandma Rosalie |
in message , Sandy Morton
') wrote: In article , Gavin Collinson wrote: I disagree. I am a relatively new qualified coastal skipper In which case I wouldn't argue too much with the sailors on this ng - they have about a million miles of experience in all continents and every weather condition Yes, the logs of the good ship armchair make terrifying reading. -- (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/ 'there are no solutions, only precipitates' |
renewontime dot com wrote in
: ... jeez Larry, you do better work for free than most of the paid engineer's I've had to work with ;-) The most valuable skill I got out of high school was typing. If I put my mind to it, I can lock up an old IBM Selectric...(c; I used to spend hours on Radio Teletype (RTTY) back in the 60's and 70's on my Teletype Model 28 on ham radio. I find typing fun because I don't have to do it for a living. I just got this Microsoft "Natural" keyboard because I wore out the HP keyboard that came with my computer in a couple of years. The spot where my thumb hit the spacebar wore the plastic right down to the metal under it....(c; Oh, I took typing because that was where the sexiest girls were. I was only one of 3 boys in the class, which improved my mating opportunities, markedly...(c; |
Gogarty wrote in
: Great advice. With your implied permission, I am going to publish your remarks in the March issue of the New York Sailing Club Newsletter. Oh, my usenet ramblings are public domain...(c; I don't think I've ever crossposted to uk.rec.sailing before. Nice to meet all of you... A few years ago, I got fooling around from a question about how it was to live aboard a sailboat from someone who was thinking about doing it. So, late one night I just started trying to be funny and came up with the "Liveaboard Simulator" prospective liveaboards could try out at home without wasting money on a boat, just to see if the wife and family would tolerate it. Feel free to post it if you like. It was a helluva lot of fun to do and I had inputs from many other sailors for months to improve it....... The Liveaboard Simulator -.......(c; Just for fun, park your cars in the lot of the convenience store at least 2 blocks from your house. (Make believe the sidewalk is a floating dock between your car and the house. Move yourself and your family (If applicable) into 1 bedrooms and 1 bathroom. Measure the DECK space INSIDE your boat. Make sure the occupied house has no more space, or closet space, or drawer space. Boats don't have room for "beds", as such. Fold your Sealy Posturepedic up against a wall, it won't fit on a boat. Go to a hobby fabric store and buy a foam pad 5' 10" long and 4' wide AND NO MORE THAN 3" THICK. Cut it into a triangle so the little end is only 12" wide. This simulates the foam pad in the V-berth up in the pointy bow of the sailboat. Bring in the kitchen table from the kitchen you're not allowed to use. Put the pad UNDER the table, on the floor, so you can simulate the 3' of headroom over the pad. Block off both long sides of the pad, and the pointy end so you have to climb aboard the V-berth from the wide end where your pillows will be. The hull blocks off the sides of a V-berth and you have to climb up over the end of it through a narrow opening (hatch to main cabin) on a boat. You'll climb over your mate's head to go to the potty in the night. No fun for either party. Test her mettle and resolve by getting up this way right after you go to bed at night. There are lots of things to do on a boat and you'll forget at least one of them, thinking about it laying in bed, like "Did I remember to tie off the dingy better?" or "Is that spring line (at the dock) or anchor line (anchored out) as tight as it should be?" Boaters who don't worry about things like this laying in bed are soon aground or on fire or the laughing stock of an anchorage.... You need to find out how much climbing over her she will tolerate BEFORE you're stuck with a big boat and big marina bills and she refuses to sleep aboard it any more..... Bring a Coleman camp stove into the bathroom and set it next to the bathroom sink. Your boat's sink is smaller, but we'll let you use the bathroom sink, anyways. Do all your cooking in the bathroom, WITHOUT using the bathroom power vent. If you have a boat vent, it'll be a useless 12v one that doesn't draw near the air your bathroom power vent draws to take away cooking odors. Leave the hall door open to simulate the open hatch. Take all the screens off your 2 bedroom's windows. Leave the windows open to let in the bugs that will invade your boat at dusk, and the flies attracted to the cooking. Borrow a 25 gallon drum mounted on a trailer. Flush your toilets into the drums. Trailer the drums to the convenience store to dump them when they get full. Turn off your sewer, you won't have one. This will simulate going to the "pump out station" every time the tiny drum is full. 25 gallons is actually LARGER than most holding tanks. They're more like 15 gallons on small sailboats under 40' because they were added to the boat after the law changed requiring them and there was no place to put it or a bigger one. They fill up really fast if you liveaboard! Unless your boat is large enough to have a big "head" with full bath, make believe your showers/bathtubs don't work. Make a deal with someone next door to the convenience store to use THEIR bathroom for bathing at the OTHER end of the DOCK. (Simulated marina rest room) If you use this rest room to potty, while you're there, make believe it has no paper towels or toilet paper. Bring your own. Bring your own soap and anything else you'd like to use there, too. If your boat HAS a shower in its little head, we'll let you use the shower end of the bathtub, but only as much tub as the boat has FREE shower space for standing to shower. As the boat's shower drains into a little pan in the bilge, be sure to leave the soapy shower water in the bottom of the tub for a few days before draining it. Boat shower sumps always smell like spent soap growing exotic living organisms science hasn't actually discovered or named, yet. Make sure your simulated V-berth is less than 3' from this soapy water for sleeping. The shower sump is under the passageway to the V-berth next to your pillows. Run you whole house through a 20 amp breaker to simulate available dock power at the marina. If you're thinking of anchoring out, turn off the main breaker and "make do" with a boat battery and flashlights. Don't forget you have to heat your house on this 20A supply and try to keep the water from freezing in winter. Turn off the water main valve in front of your house. Run a hose from your neighbor's lawn spigot over to your lawn spigot and get all your water from there. Try to keep the hose from freezing all winter. As your boat won't have a laundry, disconnect yours. Go to a boat supply place, like West Marine, and buy you a dock cart. Haul ALL your supplies, laundry, garbage, etc. between the car at the convenience store and house in this cart. Once a week, haul your outboard motor to the car, leave it a day then haul it back to the house, in the cart, to simulate "boat problems" that require "boat parts" to be removed/replaced on your "dock". If ANYTHING ever comes out of that cart between the convenience store and the house, put it in your garage and forget about it. (Simulates losing it over the side of the dock, where it sank in 23' of water and was dragged off by the current.) Each morning, about 5AM, have someone you don't know run a weedeater back and forth under your bedroom windows to simulate the fishermen leaving the marina to go fishing. Have him slam trunk lids, doors, blow car horns and bang some heavy pans together from 4AM to 5AM before lighting off the weedeater. (Simulates loading boats with booze and fishing gear and gas cans.) Once a week, have him bang the running weedeater into your bedroom wall to simulate the idiot who drove his boat into the one you're sleeping in because he was half asleep leaving the dock. Put a rope over a big hook in the ceiling over your coffee table "bed". Hook one end of the rope to the coffee table siderail and the other end out where he can pull on it. As soon as he shuts off the weedeater, have him pull hard 9 times on the rope to tilt your bed at least 30 degrees. (Simulates the wakes of the fishermen blasting off trying to beat each other to the fishing.) Anytime there is a storm in your area, have someone constantly pull on the rope. It's rough riding storms in the marina! If your boat is a sailboat, install a big wire from the top of the tallest tree to your electrical ground in the house to simulate mast lightning strikes in the marina, or to give you the thought of potential lightning strikes. Each time you "go out", or think of going boating away from your marina, disconnect the neighbor's water hose, your electric wires, all the umbilicals your new boat will use to make life more bearable in the marina. Use bottled drinking water for 2 days for everything. Get one of those 5 gallon jugs with the airpump on top from a bottled water company. This is your boat's "at sea" water system simulator. You'll learn to conserve water this way. Of course, not having the marina's AC power supply, you'll be lighting and all from a car battery, your only source of power. If you own or can borrow a generator, feel free to leave it running to provide AC power up to the limit of the generator. If you're thinking about a 30' sailboat, you won't have room for a generator so don't use it. Any extra family members must be sleeping on the settees in the main cabin or in the quarter berth under the cockpit....unless you intend to get a boat over 40-something feet with an aft cabin. Smaller boats have quarter berths. Cut a pad out of the same pad material that is no more than 2' wide by 6' long. Get a cardboard box from an appliance store that a SMALL refridgerator came in. Put the pad in the box, cut to fit, and make sure only one end of the box is open. The box can be no more than 2 feet above the pad. Quarter berths are really tight. Make them sleep in there, with little or no air circulation. That's what sleeping in a quarterberth is all about. Of course, to simulate sleeping anchored out for the weekend, no heat or air conditioning will be used and all windows will be open without screens so the bugs can get in. In the mornings, everybody gets up and goes out on the patio to enjoy the sunrise. Then, one person at a time goes back inside to dress, shave, clean themselves in the tiny cabin unless you're a family of nudists who don't mind looking at each other in the buff. You can't get dressed in the stinky little head with the door closed on a sailboat. Hell, there's barely room to bend over so you can sit on the commode. So, everyone will dress in the main cabin....one at a time. Boat tables are 2' x 4' and mounted next to the settee. There's no room for chairs in a boat. So, eat off a 2X4' space on that kitchen table you slept under while sitting on a couch (settee simulator). You can also go out with breakfast and sit on the patio (cockpit), if you like. Ok, breakfast is over. Crank up the lawnmower under the window for 2 hours. It's time to recharge the batteries from last night's usage and to freeze the coldplate in the boat's icebox which runs off a compressor on the engine. Get everybody to clean up your little hovel. Don't forget to make the beds from ONE END ONLY. You can't get to the other 3 sides of a boat bed pad. All hands go outside and washdown the first fiberglass UPS truck that passes by. That's about how big the deck is on your 35' sailboat that needs to have the ocean cleaned off it daily or it'll turn the white fiberglass all brown like the UPS truck. Now, doesn't the UPS truck look nice like your main deck? Ok, we're going to need some food, do the laundry, buy some boat parts that failed because the manufacturer's bean counters got cheap and used plastics and the wife wants to "eat out, I'm fed up with cooking on the Coleman stove" today. Let's make believe we're not at home, but in some exotic port like Ft Lauderdale, today....on our cruise to Key West......Before "going ashore", plan on buying all the food you'll want to eat that will: A - Fit into the Coleman Cooler on the floor B - You can cook on the Coleman stove without an oven or all those fancy kitchen tools you don't have on the boat C - And will last you for 10 days, in case the wind drops and it takes more time than we planned at sea. Plan meals carefully in a boat. We can't buy more than we can STORE, either! You haven't washed clothes since you left home and everything is dirty. Even if it's not, pretend it is for the boater-away-from-home simulator. Put all the clothes in your simulated boat in a huge dufflebag so we can take it to the LAUNDRY! Manny's Marina HAS a laundromat, but the hot water heater is busted (for the last 8 months) and Manny has "parts on order" for it.....saving Manny $$$$ on the electric bill! Don't forget to carry the big dufflebag with us on our "excursion". God that bag stinks, doesn't it?....PU! Of course, we came here by BOAT, so we don't have a car. Some nice marinas have a shuttle bus, but they're not a taxi. The shuttle bus will only go to West Marine or the tourist traps, so we'll be either taking the city bus, if there is one or taxi cabs or shopping at the marina store which has almost nothing to buy at enormous prices. Walk to the 7-11 store, where you have your car stored, but ignore the car. Make believe it isn't there. No one drove it to Ft Lauderdale for you. Use the payphone at the 7-11 and call a cab. Don't give the cab driver ANY instructions because in Ft Lauderdale you haven't the foggiest idea where West Marine is located or how to get there, unlike at home. We'll go to West Marine, first, because if we don't the "head" back on the boat won't be working for a week because little Suzy broke a valve in it trying to flush some paper towels. This is your MOST important project, today....that valve in the toilet!! After the cab drivers drives around for an hour looking for West Marine and asking his dispatcher how to get there. Don't forget to UNLOAD your stuff from the cab, including the dirty clothes in the dufflebag then go into West Marine and give the clerk a $100 bill, simulating the cost of toilet parts. Lexus parts are cheaper than toilet parts at West Marine. See for yourself! The valve she broke, the seals that will have to be replaced on the way into the valve will come to $100 easy. Tell the clerk you're using my liveaboard simulator and to take his girlfriend out to dinner on your $100 greenback. If you DO buy the boat, this'll come in handy when you DO need boat parts because he'll remember you for the great time his girlfriend gave him on your $100 tip. Hard-to-find boat parts will arrive in DAYS, not months like the rest of us. It's just a good political move while in simulation mode. Call another cab from West Marine's phone, saving 50c on payphone charges. Load the cab with all your stuff, toilet parts, DIRTY CLOTHES then tell the cabbie to take you to the laundromat so we can wash the stinky clothes in the trunk. The luxury marina's laundry in Ft Lauderdale has a broken hot water heater. They're working on it, the girl at the store counter, said, yesterday. Mentioning the $12/ft you paid to park the boat at their dock won't get the laundry working before we leave for Key West. Do your laundry in the laundromat the cabbie found for you. Just because noone speaks English in this neighborhood, don't worry. You'll be fine this time of day near noon. Call another cab to take us out of here to a supermarket. When you get there, resist the temptation to "load up" because your boat has limited storage and very limited refridgeration space (remember? Coleman Cooler). Buy from the list we made early this morning. Another package of cookies is OK. Leave one of the kids guarding the pile of clean laundry just inside the supermarket's front door....We learned our lesson and DIDN'T forget and leave it in the cab, again! Call another cab to take us back to the marina, loaded up with clean clothes and food and all-important boat parts. Isn't Ft Lauderdale beautiful from a cab? It's too late to go exploring, today. Maybe tomorrow.... Don't forget to tell the cab to go to the 7-11 (marina parking lot)....not your front door....cabs don't float well. Ok, haul all the stuff in the dock cart from the 7-11 store the two blocks to the "boat" bedroom. Wait 20 minutes before starting out for the house. This simulates waiting for someone to bring back a marina-owned dock cart from down the docks.....They always leave them outside their boats, until the marina "crew" get fed up with newbies like us asking why there aren't any carts and go down the docks to retrieve them. Put all the stuff away, food and clothes, in the tiny drawer space provided. Have a beer on the patio (cockpit) and watch the sunset. THIS is living! Now, disassemble the toilet in your bathroom, take out the wax ring under it and put it back. Reassemble the toilet. This completes the simulation of putting the new valve in the "head" on the boat. Uh, uh, NO POWERVENT! GET YOUR HAND OFF THAT SWITCH! The whole "boat" smells like the inside of the holding tank for hours after fixing the toilet in a real boat, too! Spray some Lysol if you got it.... After getting up, tomorrow morning, from your "V-Berth", take the whole family out to breakfast by WALKING to the nearest restaurant, then take a cab to any local park or attraction you like. We're off today to see the sights of Ft Lauderdale.....before heading out to sea, again, to Key West. Take a cab back home after dinner out and go to bed, exhausted, on your little foam pad under the table..... Get up this morning and disconnect all hoses, electrical wires, etc. Get ready for "sea". Crank up the lawn mower under the open bedroom window for 4 hours while we motor out to find some wind. ONE responsible adult MUST be sitting on the hot patio all day, in shifts, "on watch" looking out for other boats, ships, etc. If you have a riding lawn mower, let the person "on watch" drive it around the yard all day to simulate driving the boat down the ICW in heavy traffic. About 2PM, turn off the engine and just have them sit on the mower "steering" it on the patio. We're under sail, now. Every hour or so, take everyone out in the yard with a big rope and have a tug-of-war to simulate the work involved with setting sail, changing sail, trimming sail. Make sure everyone gets all sweaty in the heat. Sailors working on sailboats are always all sweaty or we're not going anywhere fast! Do this all day, today, all night, tonight, all day, tomorrow, all night tomorrow night and all day the following day until 5PM when you "arrive" at the next port you're going to. Make sure noone in the family leaves the confines of the little bedroom or the patio during our "trip". Make sure everyone conserves water, battery power, etc., things you'll want to conserve while being at sea on a trip somewhere. Everyone can go up to the 7-11 for an icecream as soon as we get the "boat" docked on day 3, the first time anyone has left the confines of the bedroom/patio in 3 days. Question - Was anyone suicidal during our simulated voyage? Keep an eye out for anyone with a problem being cooped up with other family members. If anyone is attacked, any major fights break out, any threats to throw the captain to the fish.....forget all about boats and buy a motorhome, instead. Larry...Gotta go dump the holding tanks, back in a bit. God that stinks, doesn't it?....(c; end of simulator text......................................... What great fun on a rainy day...(c; |
JR Gilbreath wrote in
: Hi Duncan Sorry but there will not be any more OT's for me. By the way I have had some great mates that were Brits and also sailed with some of your great sailers (male and female). Cheers JR Boys, BOYS! Stop throwing sand at each other from the sandbox and shake hands or I'm going to have to send you to the principal's (American)/headmaster's (UK) office for a spanking! Now, be nice! This isn't rec.boats, you know....(c; |
Larry
I wasn't nice? What should I have said? JR Larry W4CSC wrote: JR Gilbreath wrote in : Hi Duncan Sorry but there will not be any more OT's for me. By the way I have had some great mates that were Brits and also sailed with some of your great sailers (male and female). Cheers JR Boys, BOYS! Stop throwing sand at each other from the sandbox and shake hands or I'm going to have to send you to the principal's (American)/headmaster's (UK) office for a spanking! Now, be nice! This isn't rec.boats, you know....(c; |
"Dan" wrote in
oups.com: Well you can equally say in a boat you just pop into shelter. Hmm....let's test that theory. It goes 6-8 knots when things are going right. We're 397 nautical miles from shore. 397 divided 7 equals 56.71 hours to the nearest point of land, not safe harbor....those rocks on the Irish coast come to mind....so let's add a few more hours to find a harbor entrance....say 60 hours. 60 hours?! That's 2 1/2 DAYS! WE COULD DIE IN A STORM AT SEA IN 2 1/2 DAYS! Nope....wrong thinking. When you're "out there", even only 397 miles "out there"....YOUR STRANDED OUT THERE!! It's FOREVER to "shelter"....in 25' waves crashing over the broken mast stub, the mast and its sails long gone....Not fun. Rule 1 - It is ALWAYS better to be standing on the dock, wishing you were at sea....than to be at sea, wishing you were on the dock! |
"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... Gogarty wrote in snip..... The Liveaboard Simulator -.......(c; Just for fun, park your cars in the lot of the convenience store at least 2 blocks from your house. (Make believe the sidewalk is a floating dock between your car and the house. snip... Boy...you must be a real 'ray of sunshine' at the boat shows! Do they pay you to stay away? |
Don White wrote:
"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message snip... Boy...you must be a real 'ray of sunshine' at the boat shows! Do they pay you to stay away? LOL truth always has been bad for business |
in message , Larry W4CSC
') wrote: "Dan" wrote in oups.com: Well you can equally say in a boat you just pop into shelter. Hmm....let's test that theory. It goes 6-8 knots when things are going right. We're 397 nautical miles from shore. 397 divided 7 equals 56.71 hours to the nearest point of land, not safe harbor....those rocks on the Irish coast come to mind....so let's add a few more hours to find a harbor entrance....say 60 hours. 60 hours?! That's 2 1/2 DAYS! WE COULD DIE IN A STORM AT SEA IN 2 1/2 DAYS! Nope....wrong thinking. When you're "out there", even only 397 miles "out there"....YOUR STRANDED OUT THERE!! It's FOREVER to "shelter"....in 25' waves crashing over the broken mast stub, the mast and its sails long gone....Not fun. Rule 1 - It is ALWAYS better to be standing on the dock, wishing you were at sea....than to be at sea, wishing you were on the dock! You really know nothing about the sea, do you? If you're 397 miles west (or north west, or south west) of Ireland you're pretty much safe in any conditions. Just drop the para anchor over, lash everything movable down, go to sleep, get up every four hours or so to check the warp isn't chafing, get some more sleep. It'll be damp, noisy, and pretty uncomfortable, but it won't be dangerous. Only continuous severe westerly gale for sixteen consecutive days is going to give you any worries at all, and that's pretty rare. The 'risks' aren't, by and large, in deep water. By and large, and excepting wave-action capsizes (which are themselves pretty rare, and usually related to special conditions like continental shelves), you can ride out anything if you have enough sea-room. The risks are close to the coast. Lee shores, offshore rocks and shallows, strong tidal currents, overfalls, these are all coastal phenomena. They are what make sailing in bad weather dangerous. 400 miles west of Ireland, none of them exist. The old rule used to be 'when in trouble, get out to sea and stay there'. -- (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/ ;; I'll have a proper rant later, when I get the time. |
Larry W4CSC wrote:
"Dan" wrote in oups.com: Well you can equally say in a boat you just pop into shelter. Hmm....let's test that theory. It goes 6-8 knots when things are going right. We're 397 nautical miles from shore. 397 divided 7 equals 56.71 hours to the nearest point of land, not safe harbor....those rocks on the Irish coast come to mind....so let's add a few more hours to find a harbor entrance....say 60 hours. 60 hours?! That's 2 1/2 DAYS! WE COULD DIE IN A STORM AT SEA IN 2 1/2 DAYS! How? You've just said we're 60 hours away from the nearest thing to hit! Are you saying the sea state will make the boat fall apart? Are you saying the masts gonna fall down and break a hole in the hull? How often have either of these things happened to UKRSers? Rule 1 - It is ALWAYS better to be standing on the dock, wishing you were at sea....than to be at sea, wishing you were on the dock! But if you're going to be 60 hours off shore you're gonna have make sure you're boat is up to anything that might come along and chance the weather. |
"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message ... Duncan Heenan wrote: "JR Gilbreath" wrote in message .. . Duncan, are you still be ****ed about losing the colonies? JR So you ARE American, and that DOES explain a lot! PS How do you like owning Afghanistan and Iraq? Fabulous! The price of gasoline is dropping like a stone thanks to, um, all that oil in Afghanistan! Stephen And your point is??? |
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