"Keith" :

The NTSB in their bureaucratic wisdom is proposing a rule to require ALL
people on recreational boats to WEAR PFD's ALL the time. Here is a link to
the site, and the e-mail address to send your comments to. Since boating
has
continually gotten safer, I certainly see no need for this. I do support
the
PFD laws for kids and small boats like canoes, kayaks, and PWCs. If you
don't want to end up wearing a life jacket all the time, send it your
comments!

The problem is there are just too many accidents/drownings where the life
jackets are missing. Because of this the people who having to do the resuces
and/or pull out the bodies start pushing such laws.

Reading my local paper Lake Simcoe (a non-great lake in Ontario) in the last
few weeks has had the following.

Boat found, man still missing lifejackets in boat. Assumed drowned, still
looking.

Boat capsize, one man drown no lifejacket. Two men resecued holding on to a
single lifejacket.

Woman diver in training killed by boat not avoiding area defined by a diver's
flag. It is believe the boat driver (not found yet) did not even know what
the flag meant.

There were some more too. The problem is not that some people don't like to
use the safety equipment, it so many don't bother without even a good reason
not to. Example PFD too hot to wear? Get an inflatable.

Earl Colby Pottinger
--
I make public email sent to me! Hydrogen Peroxide Rockets, OpenBeos,
SerialTransfer 3.0, RAMDISK, BoatBuilding, DIY TabletPC. What happened to
the time? http://webhome.idirect.com/~earlcp

Earl,
2 of the 3 examples you cited were SMALL boat operators/passengers and
the third was struck by a boat. Believe it or not, not all boats are
this small. I'd venture to guess that most of the boats owned by
readers of this newsgroup don't fall into this category. It would make
almost as much sense to require PFDs to be worn by all citizens at all
times everywhere as to require them on all recreational boats at all times.

Trying to write an intelligent law that would mandate the wearing of
PFDs only when it would be reasonable rapidly becomes an excercise in
futile complexity as you list all the possible conditions and
exceptions. There are as many conditions/situations where wearing a PFD
on a recreational boat is rediculous as when it makes good sense. Ya
gonna list them all?

Earl Colby Pottinger wrote:

The problem is there are just too many accidents/drownings where the life
jackets are missing. Because of this the people who having to do the resuces
and/or pull out the bodies start pushing such laws.

Reading my local paper Lake Simcoe (a non-great lake in Ontario) in the last
few weeks has had the following.

Boat found, man still missing lifejackets in boat. Assumed drowned, still
looking.

Boat capsize, one man drown no lifejacket. Two men resecued holding on to a
single lifejacket.

Woman diver in training killed by boat not avoiding area defined by a diver's
flag. It is believe the boat driver (not found yet) did not even know what
the flag meant.

There were some more too. The problem is not that some people don't like to
use the safety equipment, it so many don't bother without even a good reason
not to. Example PFD too hot to wear? Get an inflatable.

Earl Colby Pottinger

--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean"
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

It would make about as much sense to require ALL persons in any building
higher than one floor to wear a safety tether at all times, since people
seem to succumb to gravity on a fairly regular basis. Down stairwells, off
of balconies and rooftops... The percentage of people who never fall out of
buildings is irrelevant, using the same logic as the NTSB is applying to
boaters.

--
Karin Conover-Lewis
Fair and Balanced since 1959
klc dot lewis at centurytel dot net


"Dan Best" wrote in message
news:IhjSc.128667$eM2.104869@attbi_s51...
Earl,
2 of the 3 examples you cited were SMALL boat operators/passengers and
the third was struck by a boat. Believe it or not, not all boats are
this small. I'd venture to guess that most of the boats owned by
readers of this newsgroup don't fall into this category. It would make
almost as much sense to require PFDs to be worn by all citizens at all
times everywhere as to require them on all recreational boats at all
times.

Trying to write an intelligent law that would mandate the wearing of
PFDs only when it would be reasonable rapidly becomes an excercise in
futile complexity as you list all the possible conditions and
exceptions. There are as many conditions/situations where wearing a PFD
on a recreational boat is rediculous as when it makes good sense. Ya
gonna list them all?

Earl Colby Pottinger wrote:

The problem is there are just too many accidents/drownings where the
life
jackets are missing. Because of this the people who having to do the
resuces
and/or pull out the bodies start pushing such laws.

Reading my local paper Lake Simcoe (a non-great lake in Ontario) in the
last
few weeks has had the following.

Boat found, man still missing lifejackets in boat. Assumed drowned,
still
looking.

Boat capsize, one man drown no lifejacket. Two men resecued holding on
to a
single lifejacket.

Woman diver in training killed by boat not avoiding area defined by a
diver's
flag. It is believe the boat driver (not found yet) did not even know
what
the flag meant.

There were some more too. The problem is not that some people don't
like to
use the safety equipment, it so many don't bother without even a good
reason
not to. Example PFD too hot to wear? Get an inflatable.

Earl Colby Pottinger

--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean"
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

Lots more drownings in swimming pools yearly. Why not require all people in
swimming pools, both public and private to wear PFD's while in or around
pools? Stupid stupid stupid.

--


Keith
__
I'm still hot. It just comes in flashes.
"Karin Conover-Lewis" wrote in message
...
It would make about as much sense to require ALL persons in any building
higher than one floor to wear a safety tether at all times, since people
seem to succumb to gravity on a fairly regular basis. Down stairwells, off
of balconies and rooftops... The percentage of people who never fall out
of
buildings is irrelevant, using the same logic as the NTSB is applying to
boaters.

--
Karin Conover-Lewis
Fair and Balanced since 1959
klc dot lewis at centurytel dot net


"Dan Best" wrote in message
news:IhjSc.128667$eM2.104869@attbi_s51...
Earl,
2 of the 3 examples you cited were SMALL boat operators/passengers and
the third was struck by a boat. Believe it or not, not all boats are
this small. I'd venture to guess that most of the boats owned by
readers of this newsgroup don't fall into this category. It would make
almost as much sense to require PFDs to be worn by all citizens at all
times everywhere as to require them on all recreational boats at all
times.

Trying to write an intelligent law that would mandate the wearing of
PFDs only when it would be reasonable rapidly becomes an excercise in
futile complexity as you list all the possible conditions and
exceptions. There are as many conditions/situations where wearing a PFD
on a recreational boat is rediculous as when it makes good sense. Ya
gonna list them all?

Earl Colby Pottinger wrote:

The problem is there are just too many accidents/drownings where the
life
jackets are missing. Because of this the people who having to do the
resuces
and/or pull out the bodies start pushing such laws.

Reading my local paper Lake Simcoe (a non-great lake in Ontario) in
the
last
few weeks has had the following.

Boat found, man still missing lifejackets in boat. Assumed drowned,
still
looking.

Boat capsize, one man drown no lifejacket. Two men resecued holding
on
to a
single lifejacket.

Woman diver in training killed by boat not avoiding area defined by a
diver's
flag. It is believe the boat driver (not found yet) did not even know
what
the flag meant.

There were some more too. The problem is not that some people don't
like to
use the safety equipment, it so many don't bother without even a good
reason
not to. Example PFD too hot to wear? Get an inflatable.

Earl Colby Pottinger

--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean"
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

Earl Colby Pottinger wrote in message ...

The problem is there are just too many accidents/drownings where the life
jackets are missing.

snip

Woman diver in training killed by boat not avoiding area defined by a diver's
flag.

The way to avoid an oncoming boat is to duck under it, not float
around on surface like a bobber. So, wear a PFD in this scenario is a
death sentence.

Also, aren't a good percentage of "drownings" the result of
hypothermia? I say the heck with "half-measures", like PFDs. I think a
+-$2000 custom fitted drysuit should be required to be worn, at all
times, by all persons boating in waters cooler than 65F.

You see, I'm just trying to "save" people, and that makes me "feel" oh
so good about myself.

Of course, since I'm in Fla this prudent "safety" requirement would
not pertain to me.
--
SJM

You have a good point. Florida leads the country in boating fatalities (over
the last 5 years), but is lagging behind in drownings. However, you make up the
difference by having the largest number of non-drowning boating fatalities,
caused by leading the way (by a huge margin) in collisions with fixed objects.

Clearly, while Florida may deserve an exemption for PFD's, they should be
required to build all bridges out of foam rubber.

http://www.uscgboating.org/statistic...stics_2002.pdf

"Scott McFadden" wrote in message
om...
....
Also, aren't a good percentage of "drownings" the result of
hypothermia? I say the heck with "half-measures", like PFDs. I think a
+-$2000 custom fitted drysuit should be required to be worn, at all
times, by all persons boating in waters cooler than 65F.

You see, I'm just trying to "save" people, and that makes me "feel" oh
so good about myself.

Of course, since I'm in Fla this prudent "safety" requirement would
not pertain to me.
--
SJM

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message ...

You have a good point. Florida leads the country in boating fatalities (over
the last 5 years), but is lagging behind in drownings. However, you make up
the difference by having the largest number of non-drowning boating fatalities,
caused by leading the way (by a huge margin) in collisions with fixed objects.

Clearly, while Florida may deserve an exemption for PFD's, they should be
required to build all bridges out of foam rubber.

I believe a realistic first step would be to prohibit the consumption
of alcoholic beverages by the operator of a power boat. (It is legal
to do so in Fla)

Do that, see if it doesn't effect the accident stats, and get back to
me on this mandatory PFD wearing crap. (+-5yrs)

I was both a Red Cross and Ocean Rescue lifeguard and I didn't need no
freaking PFD for either of them.

So, it is real simple, people going out in boats should know how to
swim. Contact your local YMCA or Red Cross for lessons. There really
is no excuse for failing to do so as even little, teeny, tiny children
are taught.

Perhaps we should make that bit of common sense "mandatory".
--
SJM

Since tha article that started this posting was a call for papers from
interested parties, I guess I should write one and send it along.

According to Coasty friends: the vast majority of bodies recovered are
men and the fly is open (the presumption is that they were in the
process of whizzing over the side {legal most places} and got toppled
into the water).

It would seem this could be eliminated as a cause of drownding by either
requiring that all boats have a enclosed head (with holding tank - of
course) or requiring that clothing wore on board not have a fly.

Matt Colie



Scott McFadden wrote:
"Jeff Morris" wrote in message ...


You have a good point. Florida leads the country in boating fatalities (over
the last 5 years), but is lagging behind in drownings. However, you make up
the difference by having the largest number of non-drowning boating fatalities,
caused by leading the way (by a huge margin) in collisions with fixed objects.

Clearly, while Florida may deserve an exemption for PFD's, they should be
required to build all bridges out of foam rubber.


I believe a realistic first step would be to prohibit the consumption
of alcoholic beverages by the operator of a power boat. (It is legal
to do so in Fla)

Do that, see if it doesn't effect the accident stats, and get back to
me on this mandatory PFD wearing crap. (+-5yrs)

I was both a Red Cross and Ocean Rescue lifeguard and I didn't need no
freaking PFD for either of them.

So, it is real simple, people going out in boats should know how to
swim. Contact your local YMCA or Red Cross for lessons. There really
is no excuse for failing to do so as even little, teeny, tiny children
are taught.

Perhaps we should make that bit of common sense "mandatory".
--
SJM

That would make as much sense as what they're talking about...
What ****es me of is they are wasting our tax dollars holding hearings
on such stupidity.
If that became law I could legally take off my pfd, jump off the boat
for a swim, ( or would I have to be in the water when I removed it?)
then by law I would have to put my pfd back on when I got back in the
boat....stupid, stupid.

John C.


It would seem this could be eliminated as a cause of drownding by either
requiring that all boats have a enclosed head (with holding tank - of
course) or requiring that clothing wore on board not have a fly.

Matt Colie

On 12 Aug 2004 06:14:32 -0700,
Scott McFadden wrote:
"Jeff Morris" wrote in message ...

You have a good point. Florida leads the country in boating fatalities (over
the last 5 years), but is lagging behind in drownings. However, you make up
the difference by having the largest number of non-drowning boating fatalities,
caused by leading the way (by a huge margin) in collisions with fixed objects.

Clearly, while Florida may deserve an exemption for PFD's, they should be
required to build all bridges out of foam rubber.

I believe a realistic first step would be to prohibit the consumption
of alcoholic beverages by the operator of a power boat. (It is legal
to do so in Fla)


Just ban alchohol entirely, it worked so well last time
--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems,
but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.