On Wed, 2 Jul 2014 08:55:03 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

I'll leave the original below for reference, as it's an old thread. It's so
old you might want to skip down to the attribute-marks section ([ "" in
front of each line] to get a basis point, or if you'd not seen it, to get a
clue; the masochists will read the entire referenced thread in CF) before
reading further...

So, in the end, there were 3 11x16 SS clad evaporator plates, in series,
through a constant-pressure control (functioning like an expansion valve),
running through a large evaporator-dryer, with sight glass, to a BD85 air
and water cooled compressor, all from Sea Frost.

The BD85, of course, has a higher capacity than the 50 it replaced, but at a
large cost in electrons. Low speed (there's a controller similar to the SSC
of Frigoboat, with, perhaps, some more smarts, as I don't know the specs of
how Frigoboat's unit manages the speeds, but the specs look impressive)
pulls 6A, the same as high on the 50. Ergo, at low, it should be removing
as much heat as the previous system did at high (watts = amps = BTU
removed).

The Frigoboat system did an admirable job while it was working. I could
take it to an indicated 0° in the freezer (control used box temp), far
colder than I needed, and still have it not running at full speed once the
temp had been reached.

Unfortunately for me, including the addition of the water cooling (another
complexity made unnecessary by the keel cooler in my Frigoboat system) by my
installer, Clay Hansen of Hansen Marine in St. Augustine, the system still
isn't right. As the initial installation had several defective components
(two temperature probes and the constant pressure valve) Clay gave it some
serious tweaking for about a month, while we were off the boat, and declared
it fit. On Christmas Eve 2013, when it wasn't hot, ever, it was working,
and we headed south. But...

It's voracious for electrons, and even at low speed, runs about 80% of the
time to achieve a box temperature in the 10-15° range, controlled by plate
temperature, the probe being at the bottom of the last plate. The
refrigerator, as it's fed from a spillover fan, continues to maintain its
temperatures satisfactorily, but at the cost of the freezer continually
having to run. Sea Frost's computer, if you let it run it (automatic
setting), looks for a 52% run time. Without a great deal more than the 6.5°
hysteresis recommended, there's no way possible to achieve that ratio on the
computer controlled version - and a higher gap would mean much more box temp
variation, something I'd become accustomed to not even thinking about, with
my previous (box temp) hysteresis of 2° - and to do so would be unacceptable
to me in any event.

Worse, after a decommissioning during a month-long trip ashore (I was on a
mooring and didn't dare leave it running), the third plate was only about
half frosted, with the compressor running non-stop, whereas before, it had
been complete, with the frost line ending an inch or so into the plate
before the return line to the constant pressure valve.

The Sea Frost owner, Cleave Horton, in my followups recently, had me fiddle
with the CPV, which resulted in an immediate frosting of not only the plate
but the return line (too much), and subsequent fiddlings have it back to
where it was, with the entire 3rd plate frosted, but the return line not
only very cold but almost frosted. Probably a pretty good place for it.

But that's with my having - at Cleave's strong suggestion - increased the
plate temp for shutoff by 2.5°, to 5°. So, I now have a warmer box, and
still about an 80% run time at low. I can jack up the speed and have it run
for shorter periods, but at a larger amp consumption. My expectation is that
running essentially full time, assuming the temp stays at the level you want
it to be (the function of the smart controller, rather than leaving it on a
given speed), is the most efficient. However, Cleave suggests leaving it at
low full time for the least amps used.

At that rate, based on no-wind nights, and next to nothing else on (2 0.1A
fans and breaker panel overhead), we're averaging 8 amps or higher just for
refrigeration - at night, when it's cooler. I can't support 200AH daily
loads, with added daytime (more heat, more stuff running, boxes being opened
occasionally) loads with my wind and solar unless conditions were absolutely
perfect - all bright sunny days and consistent winds of 15 or higher. The
amp draw is pretty consistent, whether on "automatic" - the equivalent of
the SSC in Frigoboat systems or "low"; we had one night of unexplainable 3A
average, and a couple of 12A average, but otherwise it's been in the 8A or
fractionally higher range overnight; this over more than 3 weeks of
observation.

After several emails back and forth, and several phone conversations, the
best Cleave could come up with was to play with the CPV, and "good luck" for
recommendations. This, despite his own manuals cautioning against lowering
the temps into the double-digit negative zone instead of merely to zero, was
accompanied by the assertion that 8° was way too cold, and that something
closer to the low to mid 20s was ample for freezing. Maybe if you're going
to rotate your stock on a daily basis, but that doesn't ring true for
anything resembling longer storage, let alone whether whatever it was you
wanted hard frozen would melt 5 minutes out of the freezer. As this system
cost, all-in, half more than the comparable (air cooled with keel cooler,
added filter-dryer and full wrap-around evaporator) Frigoboat system in
cost, this is most distressing.

Better yet, the metal screen filter in the water cooling installed (a Groco
WSB-500) started to disintegrate almost immediately, never mind its being
clogged and requiring frequent cleaning. So, for a small time, we ran it
without the water cooling. There was no chance. Temps in the freezer
remained in the mid to high 20s despite the system running full time.
Likely I'll replace the metal one with plastic, assuming I can source it
(how many times does a filter media fail?? - not much in the way of stocking
dealers), but it's just another annoyance. In the meantime, we're running
the pump, as we have a dome filter on the exterior, left over from when this
boat had air conditioning, and Cleave assures me that if it can't get
through that, the pump will happily move it along. Update since I drafted
this; I got new plastic filter media from Groco - a much larger mesh - and
sure enough, the flow improved greatly. Without the water cooling, our
system doesn't stand a chance in S. FL; it MIGHT be ok with air alone in
cold water and cool temps. However, here in Vero Beach, this last time we
took it off (only a few days' worth of running) to swap out the media, there
were 3 small barnacles on the housing. If those get into the cooling pipes,
we're dead. Obviously, whatever it is that barnacles start out as can fit
through the dome filter outside; I'm not sure that the plastic media is much
smaller. There isn't much dead time (no pump running) for these guys to get
a foothold, so I'm not optimistic. Does that mean I'll soon see a
degradation in my cooling water output even with a clear filter media???

I have no idea, at this point, whether the Carel thermostat I took out (his
electronic control has a Carel incorporated) was accurate, but I'd had it
set at 8° with a 2-degree hysteresis; it maintained it easily. This box
shows temps radically above that - the probe is near where the other was -
but shooting it with an infrared thermometer shows it to actually be about
10° at the spillover near the fan, and other temps much lower. E.g., bread
closest to the spillover 5°, hamburger package top near the plate 0°,
chicken package vertical to the plate -3°, and so on, with all three plates
well under 0°. So, regardless of the calibration, including that I've now
upped the plate shutoff to 6°, it's pretty cold in there, and the reefer
does (a good thing; it's been cold enough in the past to do it solely by
convection) occasionally have to use the spillover fan. I have yet to put
ice cream in there, but I suspect it would be OK. But still, it's an energy
hog.

If there had been any way short of pulling the boat (for a new keel cooler)
and destroying the galley (to get a new evaporator into the freezer), I
think I would have been much happier with a Frigoboat keel and air cooled
(air for when on shore, per Rob, Frigoboat's distributor in the US)
evaporator system, but also to move more air over the compressor),
protected - by the addition of a filter-dryer - from years-away refrigerant
oil contamination, allowing the capillary tube system to do its work. As it
is, the solution seems to be that I MUST run our Honda genset, every day,
for a full tank, about another ~$150/month, to keep up with the load. It
wouldn't take very long before even ditching and replacing the system every
5 years or so, including the necessary haulout, would be more cost efficient
than what I have now - if it were possible to replace the evaporator without
having to start over in the galley.

Finally, to forestall questions about the box itself, it's 6" of extruded
polystyrene, encased in epoxy, with radiation and conduction barriers
outside (aluminum foil and doorskin furring strips to give an air gap).
Both doors are double-gasketed, and, after much fiddling, I'm confident that
the gaskets are efficient. The boxes are, respectively - 16.25"D, 24.5"H
and 14.75/28.5"W - 3.4 and 6.56 CF respectively.


====

We've been through several iterations of freezers on our trawler,
starting with a water cooled holding plate system, progressing to a
pair of Engel dual voltage air cooled units, and most recently an
Igloo home style 110 volt air cooled unit that we got from Home Depot.
The Igloo home style freezer easily maintains zero degrees with fairly
reasonable current draw from the inverter. It has a large capacity
of about 7 cubic feet and only cost about $300 brand new, actually
free since I got it with Amex reward points. The big problem on a
sailboat would be placement since it is counter top high, 2 feet deep
and about 3 feet long. We installed ours on the flybridge with a
custom canvas cover that blends in fairly well with the rest of the
decor.

On Wed, 02 Jul 2014 11:42:24 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:



We've been through several iterations of freezers on our trawler,
starting with a water cooled holding plate system, progressing to a
pair of Engel dual voltage air cooled units, and most recently an
Igloo home style 110 volt air cooled unit that we got from Home Depot.
The Igloo home style freezer easily maintains zero degrees with fairly
reasonable current draw from the inverter. It has a large capacity
of about 7 cubic feet and only cost about $300 brand new, actually
free since I got it with Amex reward points. The big problem on a
sailboat would be placement since it is counter top high, 2 feet deep
and about 3 feet long. We installed ours on the flybridge with a
custom canvas cover that blends in fairly well with the rest of the
decor.

Have you ever considered the inefficiencies involved with
inverting 12VCD to 120VAC? You tend to throw away 5-10%
depending upon various variables.

If I had your money and huge motor vessel I would install
a propane freezer as they tend to be far more efficient

-and reliable-

than their electrical brethren which electricity is usually
derived from burning the more expensive gasoline or diesel
fuel in generators.

--
Sir Gregory

On Wed, 02 Jul 2014 14:52:02 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:

On Wed, 02 Jul 2014 11:42:24 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:



We've been through several iterations of freezers on our trawler,
starting with a water cooled holding plate system, progressing to a
pair of Engel dual voltage air cooled units, and most recently an
Igloo home style 110 volt air cooled unit that we got from Home Depot.
The Igloo home style freezer easily maintains zero degrees with fairly
reasonable current draw from the inverter. It has a large capacity
of about 7 cubic feet and only cost about $300 brand new, actually
free since I got it with Amex reward points. The big problem on a
sailboat would be placement since it is counter top high, 2 feet deep
and about 3 feet long. We installed ours on the flybridge with a
custom canvas cover that blends in fairly well with the rest of the
decor.

Have you ever considered the inefficiencies involved with
inverting 12VCD to 120VAC? You tend to throw away 5-10%
depending upon various variables.

If I had your money and huge motor vessel I would install
a propane freezer as they tend to be far more efficient

-and reliable-

than their electrical brethren which electricity is usually
derived from burning the more expensive gasoline or diesel
fuel in generators.

===

The inefficiencies of converting 12 volts to 110 are more than
compensated by the quietness of not running the generator
continuously. The lifespan of the generator is also greatly
increased and we are not tied to a dock with shorepower like most
motor yachts in our size range. The diesel fuel that the generator
does use for battery charging is a drop in the bucket compared to the
main engines, and when we are underway the engine alternators keep the
inverter batts charged at almost no cost at all. For boats that
already have propane for cooking there may be some advantages to also
using it for refrigeration but I prefer to have no propane on the boat
for safety reasons. I also like the convenience of having a single
fuel boat. Down in the Caribbean people from the US are always
juggling propane adapters to use the European butane fittings that are
commonly available.

On Wed, 02 Jul 2014 17:16:27 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

The inefficiencies of converting 12 volts to 110 are more than
compensated by the quietness of not running the generator
continuously. The lifespan of the generator is also greatly
increased and we are not tied to a dock with shorepower like most
motor yachts in our size range. The diesel fuel that the generator
does use for battery charging is a drop in the bucket compared to the
main engines, and when we are underway the engine alternators keep the
inverter batts charged at almost no cost at all. For boats that
already have propane for cooking there may be some advantages to also
using it for refrigeration but I prefer to have no propane on the boat
for safety reasons. I also like the convenience of having a single
fuel boat. Down in the Caribbean people from the US are always
juggling propane adapters to use the European butane fittings that are
commonly available.

What's the price of diesel *down island*? I've heard it isn't
cheap. I've heard some places it might be around ten bucks a
gallon. Propane, on the other hand, is generally much cheaper
than that per BTU equivalent

FYI, you don't get something for nothing. It might seem like the
alternators charging a low battery bank don't cause the main
engines to burn much more diesel but they do.

As for being quiet and not running a dedicated generator that's
a good thing but when using propane to refrigerate there is no
noise at all, ever. No fumes either from a generator or the
main engines charging up a battery bank so an inverter can do
its thing and thus waste about 10% of the energy.

Don't most diesel generators such as a typical 8KW version produce
alternating current? If so, think what you do when generating using
it. It generates 120VAC which is then transformed to 12volt DC via
a battery charger to charge the batteries (10% loss). Then you turn
around and invert it back to 120VAC to run the freezer (another 10%
loss). Sounds very inefficient to me.

Also, if you have a freezer full of frozen meat, for example, it
could be worth a thousand dollars or more at today's prices. Your
generator or main engines could break down and you just lost your
meat. An adequate supply of propane will forestall that eventuality.

--
Sir Gregory

On Wed, 02 Jul 2014 19:58:42 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:

On Wed, 02 Jul 2014 17:16:27 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

The inefficiencies of converting 12 volts to 110 are more than
compensated by the quietness of not running the generator
continuously. The lifespan of the generator is also greatly
increased and we are not tied to a dock with shorepower like most
motor yachts in our size range. The diesel fuel that the generator
does use for battery charging is a drop in the bucket compared to the
main engines, and when we are underway the engine alternators keep the
inverter batts charged at almost no cost at all. For boats that
already have propane for cooking there may be some advantages to also
using it for refrigeration but I prefer to have no propane on the boat
for safety reasons. I also like the convenience of having a single
fuel boat. Down in the Caribbean people from the US are always
juggling propane adapters to use the European butane fittings that are
commonly available.

What's the price of diesel *down island*? I've heard it isn't
cheap. I've heard some places it might be around ten bucks a
gallon. Propane, on the other hand, is generally much cheaper
than that per BTU equivalent

FYI, you don't get something for nothing. It might seem like the
alternators charging a low battery bank don't cause the main
engines to burn much more diesel but they do.

As for being quiet and not running a dedicated generator that's
a good thing but when using propane to refrigerate there is no
noise at all, ever. No fumes either from a generator or the
main engines charging up a battery bank so an inverter can do
its thing and thus waste about 10% of the energy.

Don't most diesel generators such as a typical 8KW version produce
alternating current? If so, think what you do when generating using
it. It generates 120VAC which is then transformed to 12volt DC via
a battery charger to charge the batteries (10% loss). Then you turn
around and invert it back to 120VAC to run the freezer (another 10%
loss). Sounds very inefficient to me.

Also, if you have a freezer full of frozen meat, for example, it
could be worth a thousand dollars or more at today's prices. Your
generator or main engines could break down and you just lost your
meat. An adequate supply of propane will forestall that eventuality.

I believe that the "propane fridge" that you are talking about is the
same sort of thing as the old "kerosene fridges" that use heat to
work. If so isn't there a pilot light down in the bottom that is on
all the time.

If that is what you are referring to I saw one in a 50 ft boat in
Malaysia once. The guy that owned the boat was changing out an old one
and replacing it with another. It seems to me that he said that the
fridge needed to be gimbaled to keep it as vertical as possible other
wise the flame wasn't directed to the correct place.

A lot of guys standing on the dock and making comments but he said
that he'd had the old one for a number of years with no difficulties,
other worrying about whether he had enough LPG to last till he got to
a place to buy more.

--
Cheers,

Bruce in Bangkok

On Fri, 04 Jul 2014 06:36:53 +0700, wrote:

On Wed, 02 Jul 2014 19:58:42 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:

On Wed, 02 Jul 2014 17:16:27 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

The inefficiencies of converting 12 volts to 110 are more than
compensated by the quietness of not running the generator
continuously. The lifespan of the generator is also greatly
increased and we are not tied to a dock with shorepower like most
motor yachts in our size range. The diesel fuel that the generator
does use for battery charging is a drop in the bucket compared to the
main engines, and when we are underway the engine alternators keep the
inverter batts charged at almost no cost at all. For boats that
already have propane for cooking there may be some advantages to also
using it for refrigeration but I prefer to have no propane on the boat
for safety reasons. I also like the convenience of having a single
fuel boat. Down in the Caribbean people from the US are always
juggling propane adapters to use the European butane fittings that are
commonly available.

What's the price of diesel *down island*? I've heard it isn't
cheap. I've heard some places it might be around ten bucks a
gallon. Propane, on the other hand, is generally much cheaper
than that per BTU equivalent

FYI, you don't get something for nothing. It might seem like the
alternators charging a low battery bank don't cause the main
engines to burn much more diesel but they do.

As for being quiet and not running a dedicated generator that's
a good thing but when using propane to refrigerate there is no
noise at all, ever. No fumes either from a generator or the
main engines charging up a battery bank so an inverter can do
its thing and thus waste about 10% of the energy.

Don't most diesel generators such as a typical 8KW version produce
alternating current? If so, think what you do when generating using
it. It generates 120VAC which is then transformed to 12volt DC via
a battery charger to charge the batteries (10% loss). Then you turn
around and invert it back to 120VAC to run the freezer (another 10%
loss). Sounds very inefficient to me.

Also, if you have a freezer full of frozen meat, for example, it
could be worth a thousand dollars or more at today's prices. Your
generator or main engines could break down and you just lost your
meat. An adequate supply of propane will forestall that eventuality.

I believe that the "propane fridge" that you are talking about is the
same sort of thing as the old "kerosene fridges" that use heat to
work. If so isn't there a pilot light down in the bottom that is on
all the time.

If that is what you are referring to I saw one in a 50 ft boat in
Malaysia once. The guy that owned the boat was changing out an old one
and replacing it with another. It seems to me that he said that the
fridge needed to be gimbaled to keep it as vertical as possible other
wise the flame wasn't directed to the correct place.

A lot of guys standing on the dock and making comments but he said
that he'd had the old one for a number of years with no difficulties,
other worrying about whether he had enough LPG to last till he got to
a place to buy more.

I have also heard that for monohull sailboats that operate
on an angle much of the time they are sailing, a propane
fridge/freezer needs to be gimbaled.

But for what Wayne has - a big motorboat - a propane freezer
in the cockpit would not need to be gimbaled. The only real
disadvantage of propane is it can blow up if there's a leak.

But, with a good installation and some electronic safety
gadgets it's not really anything to worry about. I used to
hate the very thought of propane until about three winters
ago it got cold-very cold. So, I made myself a nice propane
heater for a cost of less than thirty bucks and got a tank
of Blue Rhino propane for it. I used about half of a 20lb
tank in a week keeping the boat cozy warm running it on
the lowest setting (while I was aboard).

Since then I haven't had to use it at all but still have
about half a tank of propane left. The tank resides about
ten inches from my face under the front of the v-berth. If
it were to leak I would smell it immediately.

I'm not concerned at all about fires or explosions.

I'm impressed by the Dometic brand propane refrigerators/freezers
installed in some of the larger RV's. A friend of mind told
me his RV fridge runs about a month on a 20 pound tank. I opened
it and it was cold - just like a home stand-up fridge. I
couldn't even hear it running. The Dometic can use propane, 12 volts
or 120 volts.

--
Sir Gregory

On Thu, 03 Jul 2014 19:53:15 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:

I'm not concerned at all about fires or explosions.

===

No one ever is until they have seen it happen.

On Thu, 03 Jul 2014 19:53:15 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:

On Fri, 04 Jul 2014 06:36:53 +0700, wrote:

On Wed, 02 Jul 2014 19:58:42 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:

On Wed, 02 Jul 2014 17:16:27 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote:

The inefficiencies of converting 12 volts to 110 are more than
compensated by the quietness of not running the generator
continuously. The lifespan of the generator is also greatly
increased and we are not tied to a dock with shorepower like most
motor yachts in our size range. The diesel fuel that the generator
does use for battery charging is a drop in the bucket compared to the
main engines, and when we are underway the engine alternators keep the
inverter batts charged at almost no cost at all. For boats that
already have propane for cooking there may be some advantages to also
using it for refrigeration but I prefer to have no propane on the boat
for safety reasons. I also like the convenience of having a single
fuel boat. Down in the Caribbean people from the US are always
juggling propane adapters to use the European butane fittings that are
commonly available.

What's the price of diesel *down island*? I've heard it isn't
cheap. I've heard some places it might be around ten bucks a
gallon. Propane, on the other hand, is generally much cheaper
than that per BTU equivalent

FYI, you don't get something for nothing. It might seem like the
alternators charging a low battery bank don't cause the main
engines to burn much more diesel but they do.

As for being quiet and not running a dedicated generator that's
a good thing but when using propane to refrigerate there is no
noise at all, ever. No fumes either from a generator or the
main engines charging up a battery bank so an inverter can do
its thing and thus waste about 10% of the energy.

Don't most diesel generators such as a typical 8KW version produce
alternating current? If so, think what you do when generating using
it. It generates 120VAC which is then transformed to 12volt DC via
a battery charger to charge the batteries (10% loss). Then you turn
around and invert it back to 120VAC to run the freezer (another 10%
loss). Sounds very inefficient to me.

Also, if you have a freezer full of frozen meat, for example, it
could be worth a thousand dollars or more at today's prices. Your
generator or main engines could break down and you just lost your
meat. An adequate supply of propane will forestall that eventuality.

I believe that the "propane fridge" that you are talking about is the
same sort of thing as the old "kerosene fridges" that use heat to
work. If so isn't there a pilot light down in the bottom that is on
all the time.

If that is what you are referring to I saw one in a 50 ft boat in
Malaysia once. The guy that owned the boat was changing out an old one
and replacing it with another. It seems to me that he said that the
fridge needed to be gimbaled to keep it as vertical as possible other
wise the flame wasn't directed to the correct place.

A lot of guys standing on the dock and making comments but he said
that he'd had the old one for a number of years with no difficulties,
other worrying about whether he had enough LPG to last till he got to
a place to buy more.

I have also heard that for monohull sailboats that operate
on an angle much of the time they are sailing, a propane
fridge/freezer needs to be gimbaled.

But for what Wayne has - a big motorboat - a propane freezer
in the cockpit would not need to be gimbaled. The only real
disadvantage of propane is it can blow up if there's a leak.

But, with a good installation and some electronic safety
gadgets it's not really anything to worry about. I used to
hate the very thought of propane until about three winters
ago it got cold-very cold. So, I made myself a nice propane
heater for a cost of less than thirty bucks and got a tank
of Blue Rhino propane for it. I used about half of a 20lb
tank in a week keeping the boat cozy warm running it on
the lowest setting (while I was aboard).

Since then I haven't had to use it at all but still have
about half a tank of propane left. The tank resides about
ten inches from my face under the front of the v-berth. If
it were to leak I would smell it immediately.

I'm not concerned at all about fires or explosions.

I'm impressed by the Dometic brand propane refrigerators/freezers
installed in some of the larger RV's. A friend of mind told
me his RV fridge runs about a month on a 20 pound tank. I opened
it and it was cold - just like a home stand-up fridge. I
couldn't even hear it running. The Dometic can use propane, 12 volts
or 120 volts.

And years ago I watched (from a distance) a LPG terminal stocked with
tanks for delivery to homes burn and I also watched them haul the
burning fifty foot sailboat out of the marina with a dinghy to prevent
other boats catching fire and "Boat Lagoon", the first marina in
Phuket, originally used a repainted burned out hulk, the results of a
LPG fire. as a sign post at the entrance gate.

All very spectacular. Spectacular enough that I mounted my LPG bottles
outside the enclosed part of the boat and used a shutoff valve at the
bottle.

It is sort of like thru-hulls. they probably won't fail but if they do
one is in a lot of water (hot or otherwise).
--
Cheers,

Bruce in Bangkok

On Sat, 05 Jul 2014 08:06:49 -0500, Rick Morel
wrote:

On Fri, 04 Jul 2014 06:36:53 +0700, wrote:


I believe that the "propane fridge" that you are talking about is the
same sort of thing as the old "kerosene fridges" that use heat to
work. If so isn't there a pilot light down in the bottom that is on
all the time.

If that is what you are referring to I saw one in a 50 ft boat in
Malaysia once. The guy that owned the boat was changing out an old one
and replacing it with another. It seems to me that he said that the
fridge needed to be gimbaled to keep it as vertical as possible other
wise the flame wasn't directed to the correct place.

A lot of guys standing on the dock and making comments but he said
that he'd had the old one for a number of years with no difficulties,
other worrying about whether he had enough LPG to last till he got to
a place to buy more.

Yes, it is. It uses ammonia plus some other things as a refrigerant.
They're standard in RV's.

The reason they have to stay level, usually with 3 degrees front to
back and 6 degrees side to side, is that the heat, from flame or
heating element, boils the mix, then it goes through an orifice to
expand and cool, then runs back down the tubing to start the process
over. If not level, the mix pools up in the tubing and ruins it. The
only choice is to replace the fridge. In RV's while driving and in
boats constantly moving, it's a good thing, sloshing the mix around
and allowing it to make its way back down. But a sailboat heeled over
is not a good thing and will trap the mix. Power boats and multihulls
are fine. In fact a cruising friend has had one for years with no
problems.

Very efficent when using propane or shore power, but at 12V, on those
that have it, the current draw is about 10 Amps.

Rick

Yup, that is the type I say being installed on the guy's boat in
Malaysia.

Years ago now a guy worked for us doing oil well exploration
construction work came in the office and asked whether they still sold
"kerosene refrigerates" in Indonesia. I didn't know and sent one of
the purchasing guys out to check and discovered that they were still
being manufactured in Indonesia. Over the years we bought quite a few
for jungle jobs".

About the same time I saw a Johnson outboard motor that was a dual
fuel engine - gasoline and kerosene. Apparently they sold pretty well
in Irian Jaya (which now has a different name :-)

--
Cheers,

Bruce in Bangkok

On Sun, 06 Jul 2014 08:21:13 +0700, wrote:

Years ago now a guy worked for us doing oil well exploration
construction work came in the office and asked whether they still sold
"kerosene refrigerates" in Indonesia. I didn't know and sent one of
the purchasing guys out to check and discovered that they were still
being manufactured in Indonesia. Over the years we bought quite a few
for jungle jobs".

===

It seems like that would be ideal for a diesel powered boat. A lot
of cruising sail boats seem to have inadequate diesel tankage however
judging from the number of plastic jerry jugs that we see strapped to
the lifelines.