On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 06:34:08 -0800 (PST), Joe
wrote:

On Dec 10, 6:34*am, Bruce In Bangkok
wrote:
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 17:12:00 -0800 (PST), Joe
wrote:





On Dec 9, 6:55*pm, Bruce In Bangkok wrote:
On Wed, 9 Dec 2009 08:44:35 -0800 (PST), Joe
wrote:

On Dec 9, 7:35*am, slide wrote:
mmc wrote:

Yeah, the feds are cutting red snapper fishing as of 4 Jan. Lot's of people
complaining that this is based on "bad science". They take no personal
responsibilty for stock depletions. Just take and take and screw tomorrow.
Not too long ago the state outlawed gill nets. Gill net fishermen
slaughtered tons of mullet and "by-catch" (everything else that gets caught-
almost nothing lives) in the harvest of mullet roe for the Japanese market.
Mullet had been almopst wiped out on Floridas west coast around and north of
Tampa.
We saw an almost immediate increase in food fish and in mullet which are an
important food for all carniverous species.
I felt for the netters when this happened but was happy to see that our
Gov't was doing something before the Japanese lust for anything fishy
screwed Floridans permanently.

I had nor do I have any real sympathy with the shrimpers. I would watch
as they empty their nets throwing away hundreds of (now dead) animals
which were collateral damage causalities.

Slide says as he's munching down a huge platter of fried shrimp and
oysters.

I asked them why not get into shrimp farming like the Chinese instead of
letting the crop move to overseas? Their answer always was something
like my father and grandfather and his father all did it this way....

He might also have a 185K in a boat, and not be able to buy a shrimp
farm due to loss of income to the Chinese slave labor shrimp farms.

And what if the shrimpers go broke? *Who's going to pay the 100's of
millions of dollars the shrimper pay to Parks and wildlife for
permits?

How many thousands have you paid to replenish and restock the bays
Slide?

Face it the shrimpers, and fishermen and pleasure sportsmen support
the protection of the stock more than any other group at all.

I never argued with them, but am not sad to see them go either.

Well lets hope that shrimp platter cost you a 100 bucks soon, then
maybe you might give a hoot.

No since in American mariners having jobs if the Chinese can do it
cheaper right?

I bet you drive a Toyota too huh?

Joe

Of course, the Japanese, historically, and the Chinese today, are the
ones buying all the US dollar bond issues from the Treasury... Do you
know what happens to a nation's currency when they announce a treasury
bond sale and no one buys?

Independence day?

I agree that this is somewhat of a side run around the fish but it
does serve to partially explain why the US doesn't simply ban Japanese
cars, in your example, or Chinese shrimp.

The problem is that the world is no longer a simple place. The U.S. is
likely the Chinese' largest single customer, but the Chinese also buy
a substantial amount of the U.S. debt. The U.S. buys Japanese cars and
the Japanese lease the U.S. the bases in Okinawa, which apparently the
U.S. considers important if the recent talks are any indication.

Have you heard the new name for Toyota drivers? Kamakizi's

And round and round...

You ban Chinese shrimp to help the U.S. shrimp fishermen; the Chinese
stop buying bonds, the dollar drops in value, fuel goes up, in U.S.
dollar terms, the fisherman can't afford diesel, U.S. shrimp go up in
price in the U.S. - they become a luxury food and sales drop..... the
fisherman decides to quit fishing...

I've shrimped by sail before. America did just fine before the Japs or
Chinese started buying our t notes. Selling out is not the answer IMO.

Joe

Sure, you did.... a while ago when the world was younger and things
were simpler. Back when the U.S. manufactured what they needed and
exported manufactured goods to foreign countries.

We can still do that, perhaps youve been gone to long Bruce. Take a
drive across the US and you will see vast resources that have never
been tapped. I think the scales are going to tip back our way because
of several factor that will bring us back to where we need to be.
China and all of Asia is learning fast that cheap mfg has a very big
price. As they implement enviromental standards, decent wages,
heathcare ect...ect and start supporting a retiring staff the playiong
field will level.

No the scales are not going to tip back and you, perhaps without
knowing it highlight the reason.

Why do you think that the wages aren't decent here? Because they
aren't the high wages paid in the U.S.? Health care? Thailand has what
is called the "30 baht medical plan". If you are a Thai citizen you go
down to a government hospital and see the doctor. You pay 30 baht
(currently $0.90) for the visit, including all medical care and
medicines. This could be, for example, the same hospital that treats
the King of Thailand.

The mantra, "oh they are working at slave labour rates" may sound like
the truth back there but if you are on the ground looking at it has an
entire different look to it. Wages in most of Asia are at an all time
high, the "workers" are taking home, what is to them, very nice
salaries, thank you very much and in addition their tax burden is far
lower both in real and relative terms than most other regions.

And, of course, the cost of living is lower here then it is there. A
normal workman's lunch time meal is in the neighborhood of 75 cents
here in Phuket which is, I might comment, the "Gold Coast" with higher
costs then in most other areas of Thailand.

Medical costs? I mentioned the 30 baht scheme which is for Thai
citizens however for the rest of us... I take a high blood pressure
medicine, an ACE inhibitor named ZESTRIL. I pay US$ 16.66 a box. I
just had a look at an on-line U.S. shop
(http://www.fdarxmeds.com/buy/online/Zestril.shtml)
selling the same stuff for $51.20.
My wife takes a similar type of medicine Blupress at $63.00 a box at
http://www.allrealmeds.com/atacand-b...ess-p-216.html
My cost here $26.00.

So you see, not only are your wages in the range of 25 or more times
the salaries are here but your entire infrastructure is mammothly more
expensive so any effort to compete seems to be doomed.

And I don't even want to start on the different tax burden in
countries outside the U.S.

Now things are
different. Call the "on line help" number and you get someone in
Banglaore, India.

Alot of that is changing as well. Dell is moving all it support back
here. They found out they can hire stay at home moms for the same
cost.

Go down to the WalMart store and everything is made
in one of those cheap foreign countries.

Not everything.

Probably not everything. Lets say, "nearly everything".

And if you think China will get away with keeping it's yeun at
artifical low rates flooding our markets, Russia putting massive
taffifs on imports.. 30% on cars for example, Indonesia requiring very
expensive "Licences to import", India and Vietman just imposed massive
tarrifs on steel....Dubia, Saudi.....ect...ect.......ect you are
crazy. I know of many many companies bringing mfg back from China and
the flood is just starting. It's like when Yamamoto said " I'm afraid
we just awoke a sleeping giant."

Errr.. protective import duties are very much the norm in many places.
Certainly there is a valid argument that these type of tariffs
actually stifle the local development but never the less they
certainly exist. Re your 30% - Thailand has an import duty of 30% on
foreign made toilets. Protects the local (very well made, by the way)
sanitary ware makers.

Actually Yamamoto only said that in the movie... In fact historically
the navy admirals argued against a war with the U.S. It was the army
generals that promoted the attack on the U.S. After all they reckoned,
they had decisively beaten the Russians and the Chinese why not
America?

How do you determine that China's currency is artificially low? I
believe that the renminbi - dollar exchange rate has varied only
slightly in several years.

Shrimp? the Thais can grow
shrimp in ponds, package them and ship them to the U.S. cheaper then
you can fish them.

Yeah and the Thais have no problem destroying an eco system if needed
to get a fist full of greenbacks.

I don't think that anyone living in the U.S. should talk about
destroying an eco system. Or are you saying, "well, we destroyed ours
so we know what we are talking about"?



Back in those days you could take your green dollar bills down to the
Mint and redeem them for gold at $35.00/oz. today gold sells for what?
Over a thousand dollars and ounce?

Ed McMahn will redeem all the green you have for gold......You've
been gone to long Bruce.

I guess I've been gone too long. Who is "Ed McMahn"?

It is a whole different world then it was back then. and it is never
going to change back.....

I learned to never say never.

Salute,

Joe


Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)