On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 19:13:35 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

If you do much cruising I suspect that you will wish you had an
inboard though. Or a bigger fuel tank. An outboard surely burns a lot
of fuel..

Four cycle spark ignition specific consumption is the same inboard,
sterndrive, outboard, long tail motor, sail drive, and airboat. Half a
pound pre hour per horsepower. As much as double for fuel cooled
racing mills. Getting the oxygen into the motor is the problem, not
fuel. A lean mixture uses all the fuel. A rich mixture uses all the
oxygen and gives maximum power and a wasteful fuel rich exhaust.
Flames at the end of the exhaust system. With fewer than one set of
jets per cylinder, carburators are inefficient, the reason why they
have disappeared from autos. Two four barrels or four two barrels for
a eight, a common arrangement for muscle cars. As it is wilth EFI, you
get enough fuel in the exhaust to require a catalytic [spell checkers
are grand] converter.

On Mon, 01 Jun 09, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
If everything could be where you can lay your hand on it when you need
to it would be much handier.

And a 30" - 35" shaft would be nice.

Rick

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 03:19:32 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:


For what it's worth, I'd rather live in my boat than in my car...

Unless you've got a BIG car :-)

Yes, I was curious about installing a diesel.

It may make an interesting winter project some time, but I'm not in a big hurry.
Once I get the boat down to the coast it will be more do-able. Up here it's all
long distance.

I've always had outboards (part of being too poor for really expensive toys) and
I'm comfortable with that - as long as I can make the boat do what I want it to do.

But to me that means being able to vector the thrust of the motor for
directional control below steerage speeds.

So while the most common advice was "keep 1 to 2 knots for steering" (which is
not always possible - like when backing out of the slip?), my personal solution
is to steer the motor.

A mate has a cat with a inboard engine with steerable leg (not sure
what it is called) but you can apply thrust at 90 degrees to the hull
while it is stationary. He really likes it for going in and out of
marinas.

If you do much cruising I suspect that you will wish you had an
inboard though. Or a bigger fuel tank. An outboard surely burns a lot
of fuel..

I hear people talking about being "sailors" and sailing, but most
times you do have a schedule. Your wife is going to have a baby, the
Boss expects you back, you want to see your sweety, something! So you
make your plans and you are right on schedule and the last morning you
wake up and..... No Wind.. and it's fifty miles to get home.


I've heard that very same thing several times before. Must be true.
I'm retired. No job - no boss.
The kids are all grown and have kids of their own.
Sweetie is is on the boat - cooking up something in the galley.

But the wind part - that's hard to get control of.

With this motor, 12 gallons gives 24 hours cruise at 5 knots (no wind).
100 miles - with a small reserve - makes me fairly comfortable.
(that's rough, but ought to be pretty close)


In the final cut, you either go with what you can afford, or stay home
and watch TV.



I've not attacked that in detail yet (need to find or make a tiller for it), but
it turns out it's only a single bolt that locks the motor in place.

Pulling that bolt frees the motor, bit THEN you need a way to lock it down
again! (It just goes to show Rozann Rozadanna, if it's not one thing, it's
always something else).

The real conniptions I have watched are the guys with the outboard
that they can't reach easily trying to get in or out of a marina when
the current is running strong, trying to juggle throttle, rudder,
engine tiller, shift.........


My previous boat was a smaller Capri.
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/c18.htm
The motor turned freely (all by itself!). With the tiller in one hand, the motor
in the other and the sheets in your teeth, a sailor could use prehensel toes.

I made a lock link for it that could be popped loose when needed.
But that boat was so small everything was easily in reach.



I've never tried it but I'd guess that with a few bits and pieces one
could put a long tiller, with a shift and throttle, on an outboard
that would reach the cockpit.

If everything could be where you can lay your hand on it when you need
to it would be much handier.

Absolutely.

What I'm fantasizing about is a tiller that I can lift up to unlock the
lock-down, and turn (30 or 45 degrees would be ok - remote cables limit),
then drop back into a detent to lock it back down for straight ahead (which
is slightly off center to compensate for the engine being off of the center
line of the boat).

It would only be needed when below steerageway speeds - like backing out of the
slip, or trying to get going in limited spaces.

From a dead stop, an off center outboard (and few are centered) will impart a
turning moment on the boat that can be really exciting!




Cheers,

Bruce in Bangkok
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Richard Casady wrote in
:

On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 19:13:35 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

If you do much cruising I suspect that you will wish you had an
inboard though. Or a bigger fuel tank. An outboard surely burns a lot
of fuel..

Four cycle spark ignition specific consumption is the same inboard,
sterndrive, outboard, long tail motor, sail drive, and airboat. Half a
pound pre hour per horsepower. As much as double for fuel cooled
racing mills. Getting the oxygen into the motor is the problem, not
fuel. A lean mixture uses all the fuel. A rich mixture uses all the
oxygen and gives maximum power and a wasteful fuel rich exhaust.
Flames at the end of the exhaust system. With fewer than one set of
jets per cylinder, carburators are inefficient, the reason why they
have disappeared from autos. Two four barrels or four two barrels for
a eight, a common arrangement for muscle cars. As it is wilth EFI, you
get enough fuel in the exhaust to require a catalytic [spell checkers
are grand] converter.


My 250cc Honda Reflex scooter, water cooled, 4 cycle, 1 cyl, float carb,
electronic ignition with electronic enrichment instead of
choke/accelerator pump, variable V-belt drive (no transmission just one
reduction gear in wheel) gets nearly 75 mpg if I stop driving it like I
stole it. Its top speed is near 80 mph on level ground. Sustaining 75
mph on the interstate doesn't seem to bother it. Starting, even in
winter at 25F, is instantaneous. Power is smooth, except for a little
lag as the centrifugal weights, built inside the engine-mounted pulley,
fly out around 40 MPH into medium ratio. Low ratio weights fly out at
about 55 MPH. Engine speed is lower at 70 than it is at 60 because of
the crazy variable V-belt drive. There is no "shifting". The
centrifugal clutch is inside the engine and engages the V-belt pulley at
2200 RPM so you can idle disconnected (1400 rpm). 60 mph is about 7000
RPM. My old '60-something Honda 90cc bike ran 12,000 RPM for years.

It's an amazing technology and dirt simple. A counter rotating weighted
shaft in the engine makes it have zero vibration...very smooth/quiet.

"How fast will it go?", is always their first question. I tell them,
then follow up with, "It would go faster, but it's only running on one
cylinder.", trying not to laugh.


--
-----
Larry

"You meet the nicest people on a Honda." - Honda ads, 1960s

rOn Mon, 01 Jun 2009 09:11:44 -0500, Richard Casady
wrote:

On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 19:13:35 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

If you do much cruising I suspect that you will wish you had an
inboard though. Or a bigger fuel tank. An outboard surely burns a lot
of fuel..

Four cycle spark ignition specific consumption is the same inboard,
sterndrive, outboard, long tail motor, sail drive, and airboat. Half a
pound pre hour per horsepower. As much as double for fuel cooled
racing mills. Getting the oxygen into the motor is the problem, not
fuel. A lean mixture uses all the fuel. A rich mixture uses all the
oxygen and gives maximum power and a wasteful fuel rich exhaust.
Flames at the end of the exhaust system. With fewer than one set of
jets per cylinder, carburators are inefficient, the reason why they
have disappeared from autos. Two four barrels or four two barrels for
a eight, a common arrangement for muscle cars. As it is wilth EFI, you
get enough fuel in the exhaust to require a catalytic [spell checkers
are grand] converter.

Try running the usual small outboard in a barrel of clean water and
see whether there isn't a bit of "slick" that forms on the surface of
the water. Remember the big hurrah about not allowing 2 stroke
outboards in lakes any more? Apparently 2 stroke outboards pass a bit
of their fuel straight out the exhaust.

Perhaps I should have specified 2-stroke outboard so I'll change
that to "the two-stroke out board motors that I usually see on small
sailboats as auxiliary power".


Cheers,

Bruce in Bangkok
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 13:01:58 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 03:19:32 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

I hear people talking about being "sailors" and sailing, but most
times you do have a schedule. Your wife is going to have a baby, the
Boss expects you back, you want to see your sweety, something! So you
make your plans and you are right on schedule and the last morning you
wake up and..... No Wind.. and it's fifty miles to get home.


I've heard that very same thing several times before. Must be true.
I'm retired. No job - no boss.
The kids are all grown and have kids of their own.
Sweetie is is on the boat - cooking up something in the galley.

But the wind part - that's hard to get control of.

With this motor, 12 gallons gives 24 hours cruise at 5 knots (no wind).
100 miles - with a small reserve - makes me fairly comfortable.
(that's rough, but ought to be pretty close)


In the final cut, you either go with what you can afford, or stay home
and watch TV.

It all seems to make sense if you sail far enough off the equator to
have some wind nearly all the time but over here sometimes you have
rather long periods of no wind. A bloke I know left Phuket for
Langkawi, Malaysia. Anchored in Phi Phi harbor the first night. the
next morning his wife went ashore to take the ferry back to Phuket and
he motored out of the harbor. About 5 miles out the sail-drive died,
stripped the shaft splines, and there he sat. Well, Hell! But it was a
sail boat so he elected to sail the rest of the way. Only about 70-80
miles.

A week later he finally got close enough to Langkawi to throw the
dinghy over the side and "tug" his sailboat close enough to Rebuk so
he could get someone to come out and drag him into the marina and over
to the travel lift so he could get the boat out of the water and fix
it. He told me that he was beginning to worry about food.

Granted, this guy had a diesel inboard and it was the connection to
the propeller that failed but the point is that if one is always going
to "sail" then one should bring plenty of food.

90 miles/one week = about 0.5 miles/hour



Cheers,

Bruce in Bangkok
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Tue, 02 Jun 2009 07:13:40 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

Perhaps I should have specified 2-stroke outboard so I'll change
that to "the two-stroke out board motors that I usually see on small
sailboats as auxiliary power".

The Iowa schooner had a half horse Evinrude.

Casady

Bruce in Bangkok wrote in
:

Bruce in Bangkok
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)



Bruce, how much are Yanmar diesel outboards, 27 and 36hp, in Thailand?

They had the prices jacked up so high in the USA they couldn't sell them.



--
-----
Larry

If a man goes way out into the woods all alone and says something,
is it still wrong, even though no woman hears him?

Richard Casady wrote in
:

On Tue, 02 Jun 2009 07:13:40 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

Perhaps I should have specified 2-stroke outboard so I'll change
that to "the two-stroke out board motors that I usually see on small
sailboats as auxiliary power".

The Iowa schooner had a half horse Evinrude.

Casady


My first outboard motor, when I was 8 it was my Christmas present from
my grandfather and his old friends, was a nicely restored 1940 Elto Cub
1/2 hp outboard. It came with a restored heavy old wooden rowboat
painted State Park Green, the same as the picnic tables at the local
state park, because my grandfather "knew someone". Inside, it was
beautifully shellac'd to a high gloss.

http://www.oddjobmotors.com/elto.htm

My Christmas present was a beatup old rusty key in a little box. They
all laughed at my long face staring at my "present". Then, my
grandfather told me the key fit the "little garage" where the boat stuff
was stored for winter. You could barely see the top of the door, that
folded in the middle inward, behind the 8' snow bank piled up by the
snow plowing of the road. (Upstate NY, Owasco Lake, lake effect
snowstorms)

The men in the family dug us a tunnel into the garage door where the
rusty lock was under a piece of rubber from an inner tube to "protect"
it. Imagine being 8 and WAITING for the digging to complete...(c;]
Torturing children is illegal, you know.

The let me open the lock and slide the door sideways. I nearly fell
over when grandpa switched that light on. That was my first boat....How
beautiful she was!

WARNING - If you ever get an Elto Cub, do NOT put your hand around the
back of the gas tank to raise it WHILE IT'S RUNNING! The EXCELLENT
Evinrude magneto KICKS LIKE A MULE.....even if you're not 8!

......a little galvanized half gallon gas can premixed at 15:1 with
Quaker State SAE 30 from the tractor shed and you're ready for a whole
weekend cruising the lake at NEARLY 5 knots!...unless there's the
slightest breeze....

Why all lakes in Central NY aren't 8" deep in motor oil on top has never
been properly explained to me. I burned through gallons of motor oil on
my greasy-coated old outboards....coated my hands and jeans in it!


--
-----
Larry

PFD was a faded Kapok floating seat cushion with dual cotton handles.
......I survived.......

Sure wish I had that motor...and boat....back, now. Sure have some
great memories of it. When I was 10, I could start it by just spinning
the flywheel with my fingers.

Richard Casady wrote in
:

On Tue, 02 Jun 2009 07:13:40 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok
wrote:

Perhaps I should have specified 2-stroke outboard so I'll change
that to "the two-stroke out board motors that I usually see on small
sailboats as auxiliary power".

The Iowa schooner had a half horse Evinrude.

Casady


http://www.oddjobmotors.com/images/t...ightmanual.pdf

Found this service manual for the little Evinrude Foldlight folding
outboard motor from 1930....

Look in the back at the parts list prices!......How times change from one
Depression to the next. Who could afford to go fishing with no job and no
future?

For reference, the 1938 Cadillac LaSalle loaded was $1845....delivered
cheerfully to your door.


--
-----
Larry

If a man goes way out into the woods all alone and says something,
is it still wrong, even though no woman hears him?