There are two oldish wind gens across the from my boat. Both were running
last night in fairly steady 15-20 kts. Didn't hear them at all.

"Joe" wrote in message
...
On May 26, 10:18 am, Richard Casady
wrote:
On Mon, 25 May 2009 13:47:17 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"

wrote:
The only "job" wind generators do well is disturb the peace and quite of
an
otherwise peaceful anchorage. Look around at any and all sailboats using
wind generators and you will see selfish, inconsiderate jerks who think
their energy hog habits take precedence over the peace and quite of
dozens
of boaters who have sensible energy requirements.

.. I had a neighbor with a Rebel [first of the
fiberglass sailboats, 16 ft, 700 lbs.], and the halyard beat on the
mast day after day, year after year. Nobody cared.


We have a few wind gens here in the marina and they have never made
any annoying noise until the winds hit 110-120 in gusts. Then they
sounded like an indy car at full rev's until it came apart. Being it
was upwind I had a few seconds warning to expect a strong gust. A few
days later I found the field winding to it about 300 yards upwind from
the boat.

I love the sound of a marina full of lanyard slapping sailboats,
better than wind chimes... it drives the power boaters mad ;0)

Joe





Casady

Casady




--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Tue, 26 May 2009 10:18:33 -0500, Richard Casady
wrote:

On Mon, 25 May 2009 13:47:17 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

The only "job" wind generators do well is disturb the peace and quite of an
otherwise peaceful anchorage. Look around at any and all sailboats using
wind generators and you will see selfish, inconsiderate jerks who think
their energy hog habits take precedence over the peace and quite of dozens
of boaters who have sensible energy requirements.

To put it bluntly, almost without exception, boats with noisy wind
generators are inhabited by assholes.

The ironic thing is the 2MW units the local power company owns are
actually pretty quiet. Just a soft whoosh three times a second, and a
little whine from the gears. Of course, if you put one of those high
revving yacht jobs on a 200 foot mast, it might not be so loud. The
high rev classic that pumped water on my uncles place wasn't super
loud. I don't remember much noise from the actual turbine, but the rod
to the pump clanked. I had a neighbor with a Rebel [first of the
fiberglass sailboats, 16 ft, 700 lbs.], and the halyard beat on the
mast day after day, year after year. Nobody cared.

Casady

Casady

I suppose that if one were sailing off across the pacific one might be
a bit less concerned about wind generator noise and more interested in
the amps it produced. After all 3500 miles with 12 MPH winds, as Peter
just experienced -- the batteries might get run down a tad.


Of course, in the marina it makes little sense to run them as power is
available right there at the pole :-)


Cheers,

Bruce in Bangkok
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Gordon wrote in news:-
:

Do wind gens do the job? If you anchor, you tend to anchor out of the
wind. To be effective, you need 10+ knots of wind. If you are motoring,
the alternator will put out a lot more than a wind gen.
Wind gens are expensive and in some cases, quite noisy.
They need to be mounted high enough to be out of the way and be able
to catch the wind which makes them more difficult to service.
It all makes one wonder.
The one good thing is they work at night when solar doesn't.
G

Personally I think that a wind generator gives you a lot more bang for
the buck than do solar panels. At least that's true in the Caribbean
when you regularly get at 15 kt trade wind. Of course if you're anchored
in a sheltered spot, it's useless.

I can't agree with Skip on the KISS generator. I've had one for many
years and there are many short-comings. Their output curve looks
impressive, but the unit can't generate sustained power above about 18-
20kts. The issue is that there are internal thermal breakers which open
when the unit gets too hot. This leads to all kinds of other issues such
as the blades free-wheeling and the "stop" switch doesn't work anymore.

If I were buying a new unit today, I'd definately look at the Superwind
350, which has feathering blades and can sustain about 30A in any wind
above 12 m/s. It's more expensive and complex, which limits on-site
repairs, so you need to balance this with your needs.

I will also say that both the KISS and the Superwind are very quiet, with
the Superwind being the quietist of all. I can't stand the Air-Marine
generators, especially the ones with the older blades. I've re-anchored
after discovering that I was behind one.

Here are a set of links regarding these generators:

http://www.naviclub.com/Test_compara...nes_marine.pdf
http://www.superwind.de/download/manual.pdf


-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

(Prior conversation left below for context, long ago)

One of my contacts, in St. Augustine, is absolutely smitten with the D400
unit. Purports to be absolutely silent (based on his observation directly,
and telling the story of two friends who'd just installed a KISS and D400,
went around some harbour listening to various of each and the one with the
KISS called his installer back and went for a 400), and happy up to 40kts,
putting out up to 500 watts.

Costs nearly double the KISS - and my anal balancing of the blade has, thus
far (through about 30 knots) had it VERY quiet.

During the last couple of weeks with the wind up in the 20s frequently, it's
also allowed us to not run our Honda eu2000i at all, and between the solar
(370w) and the KISS, not only keep our batteries at "full" but even got into
the slightly positive cumulative AH range (~30), nearly never seen other
than during equalization. This is much more the nature of our expected use,
but, of course, we've yet to make it to the EC, so we don't experience this
all the time.

It takes gusts over 30 to make our prop sound a bit like a small airplane's,
but otherwise it's a very quiet whoosh, or inaudible.

I recently had occasion to rebuild the seals and bearings recepticals
section and replace the blades; I think one of my logs detailed that, but it
suffices to say that I was VERY careful with my balancing. The effect has
been to have no tail flutter (usual with KISS) at higher winds, and, short
of going up, making sure it can't rotate, holding a sheet of paper closer
and closer so as to induce a cut by the tips, to the eye, it appears the
tips are exactly in line, something the US distributor, svhotwire.com, says
never happens. Perhaps I just got lucky, but I'd bet it's the balancing.

So, if you're experiencing more noise than you like, take the blade off and,
using your spindle which came with it (don't have one? I finally, long
after I ordered a replacement, found mine, thus I have a spare - and you
have to use it due to the taper in the hub) balance it to the degree that it
takes a full minute for the "heavy" blade to rotate down from horizontal.
Really fiddly work (I'll post my modus if you haven't done it before, if you
like), and constant unmounting (from however you're supporting the spindle),
trimming, remounting and releveling (if you do as I did and have to provide
the second spindle surface), rinse, repeat, for however long it takes. I
have no more empirical evidence than that, but I can think of no other
reason for dramatically different results this time vs the
distributor-balanced bladeset which was mounted on our unit...

So, while I investigated the D400, and its specs are impressive (I know of
no direct, side by side, controlled wind, audio measurements of noise, but
the output and tolerance for high winds are interesting), I'll stick with
the KISS for now...

L8R

Skip and crew, currently near Hopetown over WiFi, still free...

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in
its hand
(Richard Bach)
"Geoff Schultz" wrote in message
.. .
Gordon wrote in news:-
:

Do wind gens do the job? If you anchor, you tend to anchor out of the
wind. To be effective, you need 10+ knots of wind. If you are motoring,
the alternator will put out a lot more than a wind gen.
Wind gens are expensive and in some cases, quite noisy.
They need to be mounted high enough to be out of the way and be able
to catch the wind which makes them more difficult to service.
It all makes one wonder.
The one good thing is they work at night when solar doesn't.
G

Personally I think that a wind generator gives you a lot more bang for
the buck than do solar panels. At least that's true in the Caribbean
when you regularly get at 15 kt trade wind. Of course if you're anchored
in a sheltered spot, it's useless.

I can't agree with Skip on the KISS generator. I've had one for many
years and there are many short-comings. Their output curve looks
impressive, but the unit can't generate sustained power above about 18-
20kts. The issue is that there are internal thermal breakers which open
when the unit gets too hot. This leads to all kinds of other issues such
as the blades free-wheeling and the "stop" switch doesn't work anymore.

If I were buying a new unit today, I'd definately look at the Superwind
350, which has feathering blades and can sustain about 30A in any wind
above 12 m/s. It's more expensive and complex, which limits on-site
repairs, so you need to balance this with your needs.

I will also say that both the KISS and the Superwind are very quiet, with
the Superwind being the quietist of all. I can't stand the Air-Marine
generators, especially the ones with the older blades. I've re-anchored
after discovering that I was behind one.

Here are a set of links regarding these generators:

http://www.naviclub.com/Test_compara...nes_marine.pdf
http://www.superwind.de/download/manual.pdf


-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

"Geoff Schultz" wrote in message
.. .
Gordon wrote in news:-
:

If I were buying a new unit today, I'd definately look at the Superwind
350, which has feathering blades and can sustain about 30A in any wind
above 12 m/s. It's more expensive and complex, which limits on-site
repairs, so you need to balance this with your needs.


Here are a set of links regarding these generators:

http://www.naviclub.com/Test_compara...nes_marine.pdf
http://www.superwind.de/download/manual.pdf


-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

PS - I can't get your links to open. Is that a matter of file size, or
something else, d'ya think?

L8R

Skip

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in
its hand
(Richard Bach)

"Flying Pig" skrev i en meddelelse
...
"Geoff Schultz" wrote in message
.. .
Gordon wrote in news:-
:

SNIP
Here are a set of links regarding these generators:

http://www.naviclub.com/Test_compara...nes_marine.pdf
http://www.superwind.de/download/manual.pdf


-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

PS - I can't get your links to open. Is that a matter of file size,
or something else, d'ya think?

L8R

Skip

When I'm using Google Chrome, the links do not open the pdf-document ...
With IE8, it works fine - don't ask me why! ... ;o) ...

--
best regards
Flemming Torp

"Flemming Torp" fletopkanelbolle2rp.danmark wrote in message
k...
When I'm using Google Chrome, the links do not open the pdf-document ...
With IE8, it works fine - don't ask me why! ... ;o) ...

--
best regards
Flemming Torp


Thanks, Flemming,

It doesn't work in Firefox, either, which is surprising, but I've found lots
of applications (annoyingly, particularly, the interface to my WiFi unit up
the mast) which don't, either.

Meanwhile, as I was typing this, the FF app loaded OK. Just lots of folks
haven't done the code for Chrome, I expect...

Thanks.

L8R

Skip, currently on a site more than 5 miles away, still voice grade :{))

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in
its hand
(Richard Bach)

PS links to D400:
http://www.duogen.co.uk/d400/images/D400man.pdf manual
http://www.d400.co.uk/ home page

Note from US distributor:

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Flying Pig
wrote:

Hi, Larry,

I've received a glowing recommendation for the D400.

We now have a KISS on a 2" pole, with the associated wiring,
controller, heat dump and "off" switch.

Would I need anything else to make the swap? How much are
they to the east coast?

Thanks.

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery
http://www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in
its hand
(Richard Bach)


The diversion load should work although we use 600 watts because the
generator could put out that much in a sustained high wind. See the link
below. The C-40 is only semi suitable as it does not isolate the
diversion load from the rest of the system and accordingly when you are
charging with another source as explained in the paper ,link below, that
source will always see that 500 watt load and try to replace another 35
amp hours that just goes up in heat. The switch used in the Kiss is a
simple shorting device the switch we use is purpose selected to function
with the D-400 see the link below.. You will need to bush the 2" pipe
to 1.5" ID or 42mm ID.The cost without the diversion load is $1895 USD
FOB Scappoose, OR for the 12 volt and $250.00 more for the 24 volt.
Larry Janke

Diversion load regulator information;

http://www.semarine.com/store/home.php?cat=222

Switch Information

http://www.semarine.com/store/produc...&cat=82&page=1

D-400 information

http://www.semarine.com/store/produc...&cat=82&page=1


Please note I have nothing to do with any of this other than having my
interest piqued via the long-ago discussion on KISS. I'd seen the PS
review, but had forgotten it. I'm wondering, given my current experience
with the noise/non-noise of mine, if a very careful balancing would have
changed the opinions/numbers on the noise levels in the PS test. However,
the overall AH generated was a surprise to me...

L8R

Skip

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in
its hand
(Richard Bach)
"Flying Pig" wrote in message
...

"Flemming Torp" fletopkanelbolle2rp.danmark wrote in message
k...
"Flying Pig" skrev i en meddelelse
...
"Geoff Schultz" wrote in message
.. .
Gordon wrote in news:-
:

SNIP
Here are a set of links regarding these generators:

http://www.naviclub.com/Test_compara...nes_marine.pdf
http://www.superwind.de/download/manual.pdf


-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

PS - I can't get your links to open. Is that a matter of file size, or
something else, d'ya think?

L8R

Skip

When I'm using Google Chrome, the links do not open the pdf-document ...
With IE8, it works fine - don't ask me why! ... ;o) ...


Duh! Ya gotta associate the .pdf with Adobe Reader or whatever in order for
the link to work.

--
Gregory Hall

Why would I want a D400 vs a SuperWind? To me it looks like the output
of the D400 is at least 20% lower than the Superwind at normal wind
speeds. Sure I see that at above ~30 kts the D400 is better, but that's
an anomoly.

http://superwind.com/gfx/charging_b.jpg


"Flying Pig" wrote in
:

PS links to D400:
http://www.duogen.co.uk/d400/images/D400man.pdf manual
http://www.d400.co.uk/ home page

Note from US distributor:

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Flying Pig
wrote:

Hi, Larry,

I've received a glowing recommendation for the D400.

We now have a KISS on a 2" pole, with the associated wiring,
controller, heat dump and "off" switch.

Would I need anything else to make the swap? How much are
they to the east coast?

Thanks.

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery
http://www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the
power to make it come true. You may have to work for it
however." (and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you
in its hand
(Richard Bach)


The diversion load should work although we use 600 watts because the
generator could put out that much in a sustained high wind. See the
link below. The C-40 is only semi suitable as it does not isolate the
diversion load from the rest of the system and accordingly when you
are charging with another source as explained in the paper ,link
below, that source will always see that 500 watt load and try to
replace another 35 amp hours that just goes up in heat. The switch
used in the Kiss is a simple shorting device the switch we use is
purpose selected to function with the D-400 see the link below.. You
will need to bush the 2" pipe to 1.5" ID or 42mm ID.The cost without
the diversion load is $1895 USD FOB Scappoose, OR for the 12 volt and
$250.00 more for the 24 volt. Larry Janke

Diversion load regulator information;

http://www.semarine.com/store/home.php?cat=222

Switch Information

http://www.semarine.com/store/produc...&cat=82&page=1

D-400 information

http://www.semarine.com/store/produc...&cat=82&page=1


Please note I have nothing to do with any of this other than having my
interest piqued via the long-ago discussion on KISS. I'd seen the PS
review, but had forgotten it. I'm wondering, given my current
experience with the noise/non-noise of mine, if a very careful
balancing would have changed the opinions/numbers on the noise levels
in the PS test. However, the overall AH generated was a surprise to
me...

L8R

Skip