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#21
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Atkins & Hoyle Ltd.
On Apr 7, 8:54*am, Ben Atkins wrote:
On Apr 7, 6:03*am, wrote: On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 19:43:09 -0500, Geoff Schultz wrote: jeff wrote : Geoff Schultz wrote: Jeff wrote : Geoff Schultz wrote: ... Regarding the commercial postings: *It always amazes me how there are members of this group and others who think there are some official rules which dictate what can be posted here. *I've certainly never see any such thing, and I used to run an ISP. There may be suggestions, but no rules. Of course there are rules. *They where set forth when the group was created: rec.boats.cruising * * *Cruising in boats. CHARTER The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will be open to discussions on all topics related to cruising in boats such as: * * * * - cruising equipment * * * * - cruising reports * * * * - destinations: Including where to moor/anchor, restaurants * * * * to visit, sights to see and where/how to provision * * * * - discussion of long-distance passagemaking and related * * * * issues - discussion on navigation * * * * - requests for crews and for boats to crew on * * * * - upcoming events, cruises, etc * * * * - etc. The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will not be open to for-sale postings. *Appropriate advertisements should be directed to rec.boats.marketplace. It is hoped that a FAQ will be developed. This is the Internet... If there were rules, you wouldn't see copyrighted manuals and software posted to news groups. *I agree that I don't want to see these news groups filled up with commercial posting. * There are some that feel that if a rule isn't enforced, it doesn't really exist. *I'm sure the Berny Madoff felt that way. When was the last time that anyone posted these "rules" to this news group? *And when was this posted and to where? * Its been a few years. *But the issue of commercial posts is discussed several time a year, with very few people indeed saying they think it would be good if everyone who has a product or boat to sell posted here. It's my guess that this was before anyone could create any group that they want and there was going to be some form of control over groups. *Clearly that went out of the window many, many years ago. *These are nice suggestions, not rules. No, they are the rules. *Your only point is that they are unenforcible. And there are also rules against posting using fake addresses/psuedonyms, etc. *Clearly no one follows them in here. * Is this a confession? *Actually, most of the posters have used only one handle, and many have identified themselves. *The fact that several choose not to does not mean we have all left the pale of civilized behavior. *Actually, I'm inclined to believe the story that Neil died and Wilbur is his "legacy" because until a few years ago Neil did not engage much in sock puppets. You can't select to follow some rules and not others. Isn't that exactly what you are suggesting? *That everyone should simply pick the rules they want to follow? *Or are you suggesting that we make a point of breaking all rules? *ASA is an example of that path. Guess what, this is the Internet! *RBC isn't far ahead of ASA. *There are no hard and fast rules. *There are only suggestions. *Tell me how you, or anyone will keep commercial postings away. *If you look at the count of posters here, you'll see a steady decline over the years. *News groups are well out of the main stream and headed down hill. *Within a few years it will just be a memory which is hung onto by a few diehards. * Personally I would much rather ban Neal/Wilbur/et-al and all of his sock puppets than the occasional commercial posting. *Wilbur and his sock- puppets have done more to discourage posting to these newsgroups than any commercial posting. *There's reasons why they don't post to forums. * They'd be shut down/banned/whatever within days. *These unmoderated, subscription-free posts are their only source of bile-based puke that they have. -- Geoff www.GeoffSchultz.org Not many web forums will tolerate commercial postings. As far as enforcement on a usenet group, Ben has been asked to refrain from doing it, and told why. That is usually enough "enforcement" for anyone who is trying to make friends and build a business. If not, there is, in fact, recourse. Well, I did look for the forum rules before posting and did not find them. I understand the rules now and I make it a point not to spam boards with useless sales info. However, I do see a mutually beneficial relationship that has developed on other boards between vendor and casual poster. By drawing the line between useful industry knowledge that all everybody can use and cluttering up the group with relentless spam, I receive exposure and the reinforcement of our abilities and you receive my experiences and said useful knowledge. What do people think about that?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Greetings Ben, Thanks for posting your link to boat related products. It's refreshing someone willing to go on a public forum and talk about his products. It's amazing how many ignore purse,and tennis shoes spam, but jump on anyone with a boat related product. If I need a set of yacht davits yours look pretty good. Regards, Joe El Lago Coffee Co. www.ellagocoffee.com |
#22
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Atkins & Hoyle Ltd.
"Vic Smith" wrote in message ... On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 13:18:31 -0700 (PDT), Joe wrote: Greetings Ben, Thanks for posting your link to boat related products. It's refreshing someone willing to go on a public forum and talk about his products. It's amazing how many ignore purse,and tennis shoes spam, but jump on anyone with a boat related product. You noticed that too? We both must like coffee keeping our eyes open. --Vic For my own part, I assume that those spamming purses, tennis shoes and Genuine Rolex Copies, etc., won't be back to read any replies or complaints -- so why bother? |
#23
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Atkins & Hoyle Ltd.
On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 13:18:31 -0700 (PDT), Joe
wrote: Greetings Ben, Thanks for posting your link to boat related products. It's refreshing someone willing to go on a public forum and talk about his products. It's amazing how many ignore purse,and tennis shoes spam, but jump on anyone with a boat related product. You noticed that too? We both must like coffee keeping our eyes open. --Vic |
#24
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Atkins & Hoyle Ltd.
On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 15:47:59 -0500, "KLC Lewis"
wrote: "Vic Smith" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 13:18:31 -0700 (PDT), Joe wrote: Greetings Ben, Thanks for posting your link to boat related products. It's refreshing someone willing to go on a public forum and talk about his products. It's amazing how many ignore purse,and tennis shoes spam, but jump on anyone with a boat related product. You noticed that too? We both must like coffee keeping our eyes open. --Vic For my own part, I assume that those spamming purses, tennis shoes and Genuine Rolex Copies, etc., won't be back to read any replies or complaints -- so why bother? That's true. I was really addressing Joe's first sentence. Manufacturers can give good insights into their products. Seen it on web forums. Nobody has to take what they say as gospel. They do open themselves to abuse here, and have to be careful how they react - in the interest of the company they represent. The larger point to me is if they show up they should be engaged as you would engage them face-to-face. No sense chasing them out when they can contribute knowledge. Somebody mentioned Peggy Hall as an example. I tend to take that tack. This place is often a swamp, and if the water is cleared a bit I won't complain that the clearing tool has a label on it. --Vic --Vic |
#25
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Atkins & Hoyle Ltd.
On Apr 7, 5:27*pm, Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 15:47:59 -0500, "KLC Lewis" wrote: "Vic Smith" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 13:18:31 -0700 (PDT), Joe wrote: Greetings Ben, Thanks for posting your link to boat related products. It's refreshing someone willing to go on a public forum and talk about his products. It's amazing how many ignore purse,and tennis shoes spam, but jump on anyone with a boat related product. You noticed that too? We both must like coffee keeping our eyes open. --Vic For my own part, I assume that those spamming purses, tennis shoes and Genuine Rolex Copies, etc., won't be back to read any replies or complaints -- so why bother? That's true. *I was really addressing Joe's first sentence. Manufacturers can give good insights into their products. Seen it on web forums. Nobody has to take what they say as gospel. They do open themselves to abuse here, and have to be careful how they react - in the interest of the company they represent. The larger point to me is if they show up they should be engaged as you would engage them face-to-face. No sense chasing them out when they can contribute knowledge. Somebody mentioned Peggy Hall as an example. I tend to take that tack. This place is often a swamp, and if the water is cleared a bit I won't complain that the clearing tool has a label on it. --Vic --Vic- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Well said Vic, Ben's been in the biz all his life, and could bring a wealth of Nautical knowledge to this place. I have a few questions I'd like to ask concerning ports I bet he could answer. Like... why are only one or two outfits making nice bronze ports? With the sky high prices these people charge there seems to be room for more vendors. I bet Ben has a dozen old molds his dad used in WWII just laying around un-used. Joe |
#26
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Atkins & Hoyle Ltd.
"Vic Smith" wrote in message ... That's true. I was really addressing Joe's first sentence. Manufacturers can give good insights into their products. Seen it on web forums. Nobody has to take what they say as gospel. They do open themselves to abuse here, and have to be careful how they react - in the interest of the company they represent. The larger point to me is if they show up they should be engaged as you would engage them face-to-face. No sense chasing them out when they can contribute knowledge. Somebody mentioned Peggy Hall as an example. I tend to take that tack. This place is often a swamp, and if the water is cleared a bit I won't complain that the clearing tool has a label on it. --Vic --Vic I couldn't agree more. |
#27
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Atkins & Hoyle Ltd.
On Apr 7, 7:18*pm, Joe wrote:
On Apr 7, 5:27*pm, Vic Smith wrote: On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 15:47:59 -0500, "KLC Lewis" wrote: "Vic Smith" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 13:18:31 -0700 (PDT), Joe wrote: Greetings Ben, Thanks for posting your link to boat related products. It's refreshing someone willing to go on a public forum and talk about his products. It's amazing how many ignore purse,and tennis shoes spam, but jump on anyone with a boat related product. You noticed that too? We both must like coffee keeping our eyes open. --Vic For my own part, I assume that those spamming purses, tennis shoes and Genuine Rolex Copies, etc., won't be back to read any replies or complaints -- so why bother? That's true. *I was really addressing Joe's first sentence. Manufacturers can give good insights into their products. Seen it on web forums. Nobody has to take what they say as gospel. They do open themselves to abuse here, and have to be careful how they react - in the interest of the company they represent. The larger point to me is if they show up they should be engaged as you would engage them face-to-face. No sense chasing them out when they can contribute knowledge. Somebody mentioned Peggy Hall as an example. I tend to take that tack. This place is often a swamp, and if the water is cleared a bit I won't complain that the clearing tool has a label on it. --Vic --Vic- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Well said Vic, *Ben's been in the biz all his life, and could bring a wealth of Nautical knowledge to this place. *I have a few questions I'd like to ask concerning ports I bet he could answer. Like... why are only one or two outfits making nice bronze ports? With the sky high prices these people charge there seems to be room for more vendors. I bet Ben has a dozen old molds his dad used in WWII just laying around un-used. Joe Thank you Joe and Vic. I hope people can see the difference between faceless spamming and an honest effort to engage with the consumer. Joe, all those patterns are used today. Everything we cast is Almag-35, an aluminum-magnesium alloy. We used to cast in bronze but it became more expensive with more stringent environmental regulations. From our perspective, the market for cast bronze ports is very small, as we usually deal with individual clients instead of boat builders these days. In my opinion, cast Almag is actually a superior material to use for the majority of situations. Ben Atkins Atkins & Hoyle Ltd. www.atkinshoyle.com |
#28
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Atkins & Hoyle Ltd.
"Atkins & Hoyle Ltd. - #1 Davits, Cranes, Hatches, Ports, Hardtops"
wrote in news:3b55d8bc-b1e1-4bda-92dd- : From our perspective, the market for cast bronze ports is very small, as we usually deal with individual clients instead of boat builders these days. To build for boat builders, you'd need a plastics plant, not metalworking.... |
#29
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Atkins & Hoyle Ltd.
On Apr 4, 3:08�pm, Ben Atkins wrote:
Hello Everybody, My name is Benjamin Atkins and I represent Atkins & Hoyle Ltd. We have been manufacturing the highest quality cast Almag-35 hatches, ports and davits for over 40 years. Parts for all of our past products are available and we also offer a hatch and port repair service. Our reputation in the marine industry has been earned through tested experience with building lifting devices, hoists, cranes, motor lifts and davits of types and sizes for any boat. We have an expanded product line including hardtops and arches. Please check out our updated website and we appreciate your continued interest in products;www.atkinshoyle.com Thank you for reading, Benjamin Atkins Vice President, Atkins & Hoyle Ltd.www.atkinshoyle.com Ben, you sound like a nice guy but I was unable to get replacement parts for my mid eighties hatch so your comment that "parts for all past products are available" doesn't ring true with me. |
#30
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Atkins & Hoyle Ltd.
On Apr 7, 8:25*pm, "Atkins & Hoyle Ltd. - #1 Davits, Cranes, Hatches,
Ports, Hardtops" wrote: On Apr 7, 7:18*pm, Joe wrote: On Apr 7, 5:27*pm, Vic Smith wrote: On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 15:47:59 -0500, "KLC Lewis" wrote: "Vic Smith" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 13:18:31 -0700 (PDT), Joe wrote: Greetings Ben, Thanks for posting your link to boat related products. It's refreshing someone willing to go on a public forum and talk about his products. It's amazing how many ignore purse,and tennis shoes spam, but jump on anyone with a boat related product. You noticed that too? We both must like coffee keeping our eyes open. --Vic For my own part, I assume that those spamming purses, tennis shoes and Genuine Rolex Copies, etc., won't be back to read any replies or complaints -- so why bother? That's true. *I was really addressing Joe's first sentence. Manufacturers can give good insights into their products. Seen it on web forums. Nobody has to take what they say as gospel. They do open themselves to abuse here, and have to be careful how they react - in the interest of the company they represent. The larger point to me is if they show up they should be engaged as you would engage them face-to-face. No sense chasing them out when they can contribute knowledge. Somebody mentioned Peggy Hall as an example. I tend to take that tack. This place is often a swamp, and if the water is cleared a bit I won't complain that the clearing tool has a label on it. --Vic --Vic- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Well said Vic, *Ben's been in the biz all his life, and could bring a wealth of Nautical knowledge to this place. *I have a few questions I'd like to ask concerning ports I bet he could answer. Like... why are only one or two outfits making nice bronze ports? With the sky high prices these people charge there seems to be room for more vendors. I bet Ben has a dozen old molds his dad used in WWII just laying around un-used. Joe Thank you Joe and Vic. I hope people can see the difference between faceless spamming and an honest effort to engage with the consumer. Joe, all those patterns are used today. Everything we cast is Almag-35, an aluminum-magnesium alloy. We used to cast in bronze but it became more expensive with more stringent environmental regulations. From our perspective, the market for cast bronze ports is very small, as we usually deal with individual clients instead of boat builders these days. In my opinion, cast Almag is actually a superior material to use for the majority of situations. Ben Atkins Atkins & Hoyle Ltd.www.atkinshoyle.com- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Figures, regulations seem to stymie many good things. Almag may be a superior product due to cost/profit but for lifetime, strength and good looks I perfer Bronze. So Ben, Jeff's a pretty sharp sailor, I doubt he would fib on your davit being flawed I hope you contacted him and offered to pay for the flaw. And now RingMaster is having problems getting parts. Whats the deal? Do you stand behind your products, and your statement to have parts or not? Joe Potential Customer |
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