wrote:

One of the scariest, and most depressing things I've witnessed in this
country was not long after 9/11, while working to build a facility to
manufacture a new stockpile of smallpox vaccine for the government, was
a news program where 2 liberal and 2 conservative national journalists
were asked if it was OK to torture suspects *if* it *might* save
American lives. All 4 said the equivalent of "hell yes!". I was
sickened, saddened, and ashamed that we could, as a nation, be such
gutless wimps that any action against the *other* (however defined)
person is justifiable if there's even the slightest chance that it
*might* save our butts. Pitiful.

Yeah, who are we anyway? Our lives are pitiful and worth nothing! How
dare we threaten, scare or hurt someone who is trying to hurt and kill
us?? We're not worth it!!!! We should protect murderous criminals
instead of trying to save our butts!!!

Stephen

Stephen Trapani wrote:
wrote:

One of the scariest, and most depressing things I've witnessed in this
country was not long after 9/11, while working to build a facility to
manufacture a new stockpile of smallpox vaccine for the government,
was a news program where 2 liberal and 2 conservative national
journalists were asked if it was OK to torture suspects *if* it
*might* save American lives. All 4 said the equivalent of "hell
yes!". I was sickened, saddened, and ashamed that we could, as a
nation, be such gutless wimps that any action against the *other*
(however defined) person is justifiable if there's even the slightest
chance that it *might* save our butts. Pitiful.

Yeah, who are we anyway?

We claim to be a nation of laws, and we claim the moral high ground on
these issues in our dealings with the rest of the world.

Our lives are pitiful and worth nothing!

Not even remotely implied by *any* argument presented here. Feel free
to associate yourself with that remark if you like.

How dare we threaten, scare or hurt someone who is trying to hurt and kill
us?? We're not worth it!!!! We should protect murderous criminals
instead of trying to save our butts!!!

Murderous criminals who have not been even charged with a crime because
of lack of evidence? Face it Stephen, no matter how enamored or torture
you may be, it is illegal. Write your representatives and ask them to
introduce legislation legalizing torture because it's the only way to
keep you safe - see how successful you are.

Keith

wrote:
Stephen Trapani wrote:
wrote:

One of the scariest, and most depressing things I've witnessed in
this country was not long after 9/11, while working to build a
facility to manufacture a new stockpile of smallpox vaccine for the
government, was a news program where 2 liberal and 2 conservative
national journalists were asked if it was OK to torture suspects *if*
it *might* save American lives. All 4 said the equivalent of "hell
yes!". I was sickened, saddened, and ashamed that we could, as a
nation, be such gutless wimps that any action against the *other*
(however defined) person is justifiable if there's even the slightest
chance that it *might* save our butts. Pitiful.

Yeah, who are we anyway?

We claim to be a nation of laws, and we claim the moral high ground on
these issues in our dealings with the rest of the world.

Then why don't we take reasonable measures to find out what we need to
find out to stop these mass murderers! The moral high ground includes
and excludes many things, but one thing it includes is putting the well
being of innocents ahead of the rights of mass murderers!

Our lives are pitiful and worth nothing!

Not even remotely implied by *any* argument presented here. Feel free
to associate yourself with that remark if you like.

yes!". I was sickened, saddened, and ashamed that we could, as a
nation, be such gutless wimps that any action against the *other*
(however defined) person is justifiable if there's even the slightest
chance that it *might* save our butts.

How dare we threaten, scare or hurt someone who is trying to hurt and
kill us?? We're not worth it!!!! We should protect murderous criminals
instead of trying to save our butts!!!

Murderous criminals who have not been even charged with a crime because
of lack of evidence? Face it Stephen, no matter how enamored or torture
you may be, it is illegal. Write your representatives and ask them to
introduce legislation legalizing torture because it's the only way to
keep you safe - see how successful you are.

I believe in the moral high ground of doing what is right over and above
any conflicting laws.

Stephen

"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message
news
I believe in the moral high ground of doing what is right over and above
any conflicting laws.

Stephen

So we should be "A Nation of Laws," unless those laws get in our way.
Gotcha.

Stephen Trapani wrote:
Then why don't we take reasonable measures to find out what we need to
find out to stop these mass murderers!

Sure... I got nothing against that.

..... The moral high ground includes
and excludes many things, but one thing it includes is putting the well
being of innocents ahead of the rights of mass murderers!


Does this have anything to do with the issue at hand (tortureof
prisoners)?

The main point that you (and Dave, and other pro-torture people) have
failed to make is that using torture actually accomplishes anything at
all to prevent terrorists. Instead, you blame -us- for failing to use
torture.... sorry, but terrorism is not my fault. You can take
responsibility yourself if you like. But you can't just change the
laws of our nation to suit your own moral perceptions (just like I
can't).

Furthermore, a group of people who -were- in a position to change the
laws of our nation (or, more accurately, temporarily change a few and
ignore a lot of others) agree with your moral perceptions....
specifically, that torturing prisoners is OK... and they don't really
seem to have gotten such great results.

DSK