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#211
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Yeah, I know "plonk"
"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et... "Marty" wrote in message ... Dave wrote: On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:56:52 -0700 (PDT), said: OK, solet me make sure I've got your point straight... Forcefully holding a person's head under water until they believe they are going to die... and in some cases, actually die... does not fall within the definition of "torture." Is that it? Sigh...you still don't get it. I'm not saying it is or is not properly labeled "torture." I'm saying the label you stick on it is no more than an expression of your conclusion that it's a "bad thing." Expressing that conclusion isn't going to persuade any rational person that your conclusion is correct. Only that you believe it. Ok, since you insist on this exercise in sophistry, let's return to first principles and move to a more Socratic level. Please define what the term "torture" means. I will keep this to one question at a time to avoid confusing anyone. Cheers Martin It means whatever we want it to, silly. If we want it to mean birthday cake and puppies and merry-go-rounds, it doesn't have to mean just "bad things" after all. It's just a word, after all. I think Dave needs to brush-up on his S.I. Hayakawa. Whoa... I haven't heard that name bandied about it a while. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#212
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Yeah, I know "plonk"
KLC Lewis wrote:
I think Dave needs to brush-up on his S.I. Hayakawa. Hmmm, were you perhaps thinking: "I'm going to speak my mind because I have nothing to lose." ? Cheers Martin |
#213
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Yeah, I know "plonk"
Dave wrote:
Doug, you must learn to read what's written Actually, I learned that a long time ago. The problem here is that you did not write what you later pretend to have; of course the pretense gives you greater stature (in your imagination) Just to make it clear, you are in favor of inflicting pain, fear, and bodily harm, on US prisoners... to the point of death in many cases... for the sake of almost-certanly-useless information. To you, the slight possibility of gaining useful info is worth BOTH the risk of losing any chance of gaining further info from that prisoner, and sacrificing the moral position of the whole country. That's it in a nutshel, right? Dave wrote: Nope. Not even close. I regret to say that you have not convinced me that you've reversed your position on the matter, Dave. In the past, you've been a pretty serious Bush/Cheney apologist and that includes strongly-worded denial that any torture (just to keep it clear, let's define it as NOT cookies & kittens but rather inflicting pain, fear, and bodily harm, on US prisoners... to the point of death in many cases...for the sake of a slight possibility of gaining useful info) was being carried out. Regards- Doug King |
#214
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Yeah, I know "plonk"
"Marty" wrote in message ... KLC Lewis wrote: I think Dave needs to brush-up on his S.I. Hayakawa. Hmmm, were you perhaps thinking: "I'm going to speak my mind because I have nothing to lose." ? Cheers Martin Usually. :-) |
#215
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Yeah, I know "plonk"
KLC Lewis wrote:
"Marty" wrote in message ... KLC Lewis wrote: I think Dave needs to brush-up on his S.I. Hayakawa. Hmmm, were you perhaps thinking: "I'm going to speak my mind because I have nothing to lose." ? Cheers Martin Usually. :-) Hayakawa was Canadian, his views on bilingualism would be considered heresy in his native country. However I agree with him, over the last century we have expended more money on bilingualism than we have on National Defence and Health care combined,,, Cheers Martin |
#216
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Yeah, I know "plonk"
"Marty" wrote in message ... KLC Lewis wrote: "Marty" wrote in message ... KLC Lewis wrote: I think Dave needs to brush-up on his S.I. Hayakawa. Hmmm, were you perhaps thinking: "I'm going to speak my mind because I have nothing to lose." ? Cheers Martin Usually. :-) Hayakawa was Canadian, his views on bilingualism would be considered heresy in his native country. However I agree with him, over the last century we have expended more money on bilingualism than we have on National Defence and Health care combined,,, Cheers Martin Hey, he gave-up his Canuckness when he became a US Citizen. ;-D |
#217
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Yeah, I know "plonk"
KLC Lewis wrote:
"Marty" wrote in message ... KLC Lewis wrote: "Marty" wrote in message ... KLC Lewis wrote: I think Dave needs to brush-up on his S.I. Hayakawa. Hmmm, were you perhaps thinking: "I'm going to speak my mind because I have nothing to lose." ? Cheers Martin Usually. :-) Hayakawa was Canadian, his views on bilingualism would be considered heresy in his native country. However I agree with him, over the last century we have expended more money on bilingualism than we have on National Defence and Health care combined,,, Cheers Martin Hey, he gave-up his Canuckness when he became a US Citizen. ;-D Canadian law, like that of Great Britain, (our mother) does not recognize this..as far as we're concerned he had dual citizenship .. not that we are going to send down a team of heavily armed beavers to bring his corpse back... :-) Cheers Martin |
#218
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Yeah, I know "plonk"
"Dave" wrote in message ... On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 20:16:36 -0600, "KLC Lewis" said: Ok, since you insist on this exercise in sophistry, let's return to first principles and move to a more Socratic level. Please define what the term "torture" means. I will keep this to one question at a time to avoid confusing anyone. Cheers Martin It means whatever we want it to, silly. If we want it to mean birthday cake and puppies and merry-go-rounds, I think you may be starting to get the point, Karin. If you want to argue about whether puppies or merry-go-rounds are a good thing, then talk about puppies or merry-go rounds, rather than arguing about whether puppies or merry-go-rounds are among the things denoted by the word "torture." Since it seems clear that Jon, Not-At-All, Marty et. al. think one wins an argument solely by having the last word, I'll end my participation in the thread by having underlined that point and let them continue to squabble should they so desire. If your map is faulty, you'll never find your way through the territory. |
#219
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Yeah, I know "plonk"
Dave wrote:
Since it seems clear that Jon, Not-At-All, Marty et. al. think one wins an argument solely by having the last word, You do have a penchant for making invalid conclusions based on scanty evidence. Hell, I haven't even started an argument, merely politely asked you to define your terms. I'll end my participation in the thread by having underlined that point and let them continue to squabble should they so desire. You forgot to ad, "Without having made a single valid point." Cheers Martin |
#220
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Yeah, I know "plonk"
Richard Casady wrote:
Hanging was invented to be less cruel than boiling in oil or breaking on the wheel. It achieved that at least. The state of Utah used to offer the choice of hanging or shooting, Nobody ever picked hanging. Casady I used to think that beheading was barbaric. By ax, saber or guillotine. And I'm sure it sometimes was - when the executioner had to take several swipes before the neck was severed. But a clean cut through the spinal column, specially if the major blood vessels were severed, was faster than the long drop. I think that was likely a humane end in the best case. Brian W |
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