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Capt. JG

"Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 09:03:23 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Bruce In Bangkok" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 9 Mar 2009 20:05:50 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

And, it's well-documented that it doesn't work.

Bruce In Bangkok wrote:
I would disagree with you.

In one case I witnessed the individual who "confessed" admitting that
he was beaten until he confessed, in a second, an individual who
stated he witnessed the act said that it worked and several
descriptions I have read of WW II British agents in Occupied France
specifically state that the Germans gained sufficient information from
partisans that they were able to capture others in the group.

As well there are fairly well documented cases in Russia of people
who, for some reason, confessed to outlandish crimes and were
executed. Generally attributed to torture.

In short the "it doesn't work" argument needs a lot of qualification
to be wholly correct.

Oh, I don't think so.

Crime confessions obtained by torture, where the primary proof of
guilt is the confession, doesn't make the info accurate. Only that you
punished somebody for a crime. That covers the Russian incident you
refer to...

No, I believe that it proves the point; that the Russians were able
through "torture", perhaps being sleep deprivation and starvation
combined with long interrogations, were able to "convince" people to
publicly confess to crimes that the individuals concerned must have
known would result in their execution.

As for the Nazis, well they may have caught some partisans by using
info gained by torture, but they did not eradicate the Resistance...
in fact the Resistance grew steadily. And in the end, who won

You are taking a rather long ranged view, perhaps far fetched. The
Germans were able to identify other members of a specific group, which
I suspect was their immediate aim.

So yeah, the evidence seems very strong that torture doesn't work....
thanks Bruce!

DSK

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

So, but this logic, the US gov't should sanction techniques just like
those
Germany carried out?

Why do you persist in misunderstanding?

I was replying specifically to the statement "And, it's
well-documented that it doesn't work."

The question of whether to apply the technique is primarily a moral
one that I do not propose to address as it is an extremely complex
subject.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

It's not just a moral question. Sorry. It's a practical one on several
levels. Not only does it not work it works against the country that condones
or uses it. This latter practicality is one that the previous administration
ignored much to our detriment.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

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