Dave wrote:
On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:27:40 -0700 (PDT), said:

Dave wrote:
A classic straw man argument. A pity you can't read more carefully, Doug. If
you could you would realize that I have neither advocated nor opposed
waterboarding in any of the above discussion. I have simply pointed out the
fallacy of sticking a label like "torture" on it as a substitute for
reasoned discussion.

So, calling torture "torture" is a substitute for reasoned discussion?

Calling waterboarding "torture" is definitely not an adequate substitute for
reasoned discussion. It's simply trying to attach a label in the hope that
substantive discussion will be foreclosed.

Finally, you come out with a concrete position. Unfortunately most of
the world considers drowning followed by revival, repeat as necessary,
to be torture.

Why do you find that so difficult to grasp?

Cheers
Martin

Dave wrote:
On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 19:49:55 -0400, Marty said:

Calling waterboarding "torture" is definitely not an adequate substitute for
reasoned discussion. It's simply trying to attach a label in the hope that
substantive discussion will be foreclosed.
Finally, you come out with a concrete position. Unfortunately most of
the world considers drowning followed by revival, repeat as necessary,
to be torture.

Why do you find that so difficult to grasp?

Unfortunately, you fall into the same trap as Doug. The issue is not whether
the proper label has been attached to waterboarding. It's whether the use of
that process is acceptable under some circumstances. Labels do not help in
answering that question.


Well, at least we've finally nailed down what it is that you're arguing
about. Now, do you think it is, or isn't acceptable, in some
situations? Torture that is.

Cheers
Martin

Dave wrote:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:11:20 -0400, Martin Baxter said:

Unfortunately, you fall into the same trap as Doug. The issue is not whether
the proper label has been attached to waterboarding. It's whether the use of
that process is acceptable under some circumstances. Labels do not help in
answering that question.

Well, at least we've finally nailed down what it is that you're arguing
about. Now, do you think it is, or isn't acceptable, in some
situations? Torture that is.

I assume that remark is made tongue in cheek.

You assume incorrectly. I really would like to know your view.

Cheers
Martin

Dave wrote:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:51:33 -0400, Marty said:

Well, at least we've finally nailed down what it is that you're arguing
about. Now, do you think it is, or isn't acceptable, in some
situations? Torture that is.
I assume that remark is made tongue in cheek.
You assume incorrectly. I really would like to know your view.

My view is that labeling something "torture" is not going to advance the
discussion. What specific interrogation method or methods do you wish to
discuss?

Now you truly are being obtuse. I'm not labeling anything, the question
is quite clear, I'll repeat it:

"Well, at least we've finally nailed down what it is that you're arguing
about. Now, do you think it is, or isn't acceptable, in some
situations? Torture that is. " That is reasonable clear prose, I am
not asking you to define what is or is not torture.

Cheers
Martin

Dave wrote:
On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 20:17:47 -0400, Marty said:

Now, do you think it is, or isn't acceptable, in some
situations? Torture that is.

When did you stop beating your mother?


I rather think that you regard circumlocution as one of your strong
points. If you are going to refuse to answer simple questions, then
having a meaningful discussion becomes impossible.

Cheers
Martin
------------ And now a word from our sponsor ------------------
For a quality usenet news server, try DNEWS, easy to install,
fast, efficient and reliable. For home servers or carrier class
installations with millions of users it will allow you to grow!
---- See http://netwinsite.com/sponsor/sponsor_dnews.htm ----

Dave wrote:
On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:10:45 -0400, Martin Baxter said:

Now, do you think it is, or isn't acceptable, in some
situations? Torture that is.
When did you stop beating your mother?

I rather think that you regard circumlocution as one of your strong
points. If you are going to refuse to answer simple questions, then
having a meaningful discussion becomes impossible.

So you won't tell me when you stopped beating her?

Still waiting for an answer to a simple question......

Do try and display a modicum of intellegence and refrain from reposting
another puerile response.

Cheers
Martin

"Marty" wrote in message
...
Dave wrote:
On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:10:45 -0400, Martin Baxter said:

Now, do you think it is, or isn't acceptable, in some situations?
Torture that is.
When did you stop beating your mother?

I rather think that you regard circumlocution as one of your strong
points. If you are going to refuse to answer simple questions, then
having a meaningful discussion becomes impossible.

So you won't tell me when you stopped beating her?

Still waiting for an answer to a simple question......

Do try and display a modicum of intellegence and refrain from reposting
another puerile response.

Cheers
Martin


You sure are asking a lot! Sheesh..

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Mar 2009 19:49:55 -0400, Marty said:

Calling waterboarding "torture" is definitely not an adequate substitute
for
reasoned discussion. It's simply trying to attach a label in the hope
that
substantive discussion will be foreclosed.

Finally, you come out with a concrete position. Unfortunately most of
the world considers drowning followed by revival, repeat as necessary,
to be torture.

Why do you find that so difficult to grasp?

Unfortunately, you fall into the same trap as Doug. The issue is not
whether
the proper label has been attached to waterboarding. It's whether the use
of
that process is acceptable under some circumstances. Labels do not help in
answering that question.

Those who believe that waterboarding is not torture should be submitted to
it until they change their minds.

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 11:05:12 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
said:

Those who believe that waterboarding is not torture should be submitted to
it until they change their minds.

When I make a word do a lot of work like that, I always pay it extra.

(With apologies to Lewis Carroll)

Very cute, but apropos of what I have no idea. Do you have a problem with
irony?

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:59:10 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
said:

"Dave" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 11 Mar 2009 11:05:12 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
said:

Those who believe that waterboarding is not torture should be submitted
to
it until they change their minds.

When I make a word do a lot of work like that, I always pay it extra.

(With apologies to Lewis Carroll)

Very cute, but apropos of what I have no idea.

More's the pity.

But no doubt at least one or two people got the allusion.

Ya, far be it from you to actually make a clear point. When you insist on
inscrutability, you can claim to be far more intelligent than those who
can't decypher your personal code. "Claim," of course, being the key word.