On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 13:35:15 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

The first problem comes when you attempt to locate proper heavy duty
thimbles for the eyes. Damned hard to find. Next comes splicing the
eyes in the cables. Again, if you can do it yourself and have the
tools then go for it but if you are paying rigger's rates then get
your wallet ready.

Don't they have fittings that avoid the eyesplice, for stainless, but
not for galvanized? That would do it even if stainless is six times as
costly. I don't know about those compression sleeves. I remember in
the fifties when Lands End sold nothing but sailboat stuff. They had
sleeves and a tool that looked like a boltcutter.

You can get 3/8 galv. for less than a buck a foot, breaking strength
14 000 lbs. My original reference was to anchor rode, and you can bet
the ranch it wasn't stainless. You can brush grease over a wire filled
winch drum and not get it on the rest of the boat.

People who aren't useing it say it rusts. How come the zinc does not
afford anodic protection to the steel. I drive by the neighors steel
roof that has a third of the zinc gone, and no rust. No salt of
course. My dad built the Iowa schooner [only been the one] and used
galvanized. Whatever the local hardware store had.

Casady

Casady

"Richard Casady" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 13:35:15 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

The first problem comes when you attempt to locate proper heavy duty
thimbles for the eyes. Damned hard to find. Next comes splicing the
eyes in the cables. Again, if you can do it yourself and have the
tools then go for it but if you are paying rigger's rates then get
your wallet ready.

Don't they have fittings that avoid the eyesplice, for stainless, but
not for galvanized? That would do it even if stainless is six times as
costly. I don't know about those compression sleeves. I remember in
the fifties when Lands End sold nothing but sailboat stuff. They had
sleeves and a tool that looked like a boltcutter.

Yes, you can get compression fittings for galvanised wire as well as
stainless.
I have the gear to do my own splices by the Talurit system, which makes a
very neat job with a 20 ton hydraulic press.
The only difference is that you use aluminium ferrules for galvd. and
copper ones for stainless.
You can use these copper ferrules also for 1 x 19 wire if you don't want to
go for swaging. In that case you use the next larger ferrule because 1 x 19
is much more resistant to compression than stranded.

I have no experience of the systems worked by a sort of bolt cutter but
would not be certain that the average person could produce enough force to
compress a copper ferrule.
I am about to fit new steering wires to my boat if it ever stops snowing.
The old ones are terminated with Nico-press fittings but I have made Talurit
splices on the new ones.

Edgar wrote:

I have no experience of the systems worked by a sort of bolt cutter but
would not be certain that the average person could produce enough force to
compress a copper ferrule.
I am about to fit new steering wires to my boat if it ever stops snowing.
The old ones are terminated with Nico-press fittings but I have made Talurit
splices on the new ones.


The Nicopress sleeves used to terminate galvanized aircraft control
cables are made of copper, and the aircraft supply companies suggest
zinc coated copper sleeves for stainless wire cable. Aluminum sleeves
are often stocked in hardware stores - they do well with galvanized
cable in the smaller diameters to 3/16 inch certainly.
A sleeve set by a reworked bolt cutter needs a little care, because as
you can easily imagine, it is quite possible to squeeze the diameter
over the two cables far too skinny with this tool.
That's what a gage is for.
Grinding a bolt cutter's blades into two semicircles of the appropriate
size works well. A sleeve (or ferrule) is squeezed three times, but
NEVER at different angles, or at right angles to and over an existing
squeeze. That about guarantees a slip, in a joint which will otherwise
hold up over 90% of the rated breaking strain of the cable, often over 100%.

Brian W

Richard Casady wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 13:35:15 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

The first problem comes when you attempt to locate proper heavy duty
thimbles for the eyes. Damned hard to find. Next comes splicing the
eyes in the cables. Again, if you can do it yourself and have the
tools then go for it but if you are paying rigger's rates then get
your wallet ready.

Don't they have fittings that avoid the eyesplice, for stainless, but
not for galvanized? That would do it even if stainless is six times as
costly. I don't know about those compression sleeves. I remember in
the fifties when Lands End sold nothing but sailboat stuff. They had
sleeves and a tool that looked like a boltcutter.

Poured socket terminals were the 'gold standard' for wire rope terminals
for the greater part of the last century. The end of the rope is
splayed in a controlled fashion and spelter (usually zinc alloy) is
poured in to the terminal to form a solid wedge retaining the rope.
Used to be the Navy standard for all wire terminals used for safety
critical lifting. Works for galvanized and bare steel wire but I believe
its not so good for stainless as the spelter doesn't wet the strands
properly.
Check out chapter 10 of:
http://www.fastlift.co.za/pdf/CASAR%20-%20Wire%20rope%20end%20connections.pdf

for instructions. It should be noted that unlike most other terminal
systems, it does not de-rate the wire strength from 100%

The tools and materials to do it are affordable and can be carried on
board nearly any boat, the terminals are generally reusable and the
galvanic compatibility is good, but you do need to be ashore or in a
very sheltered location to work with molten spelter so some screw down
compression fittings of any of the types suitable for galvanised wire
would need to be stocked for any repairs under way.

You can get 3/8 galv. for less than a buck a foot, breaking strength
14 000 lbs. My original reference was to anchor rode, and you can bet
the ranch it wasn't stainless. You can brush grease over a wire filled
winch drum and not get it on the rest of the boat.

People who aren't useing it say it rusts. How come the zinc does not
afford anodic protection to the steel. I drive by the neighors steel
roof that has a third of the zinc gone, and no rust. No salt of
course. My dad built the Iowa schooner [only been the one] and used
galvanized. Whatever the local hardware store had.

Casady

Casady


--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL:

On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 09:39:58 +0000, IanM
wrote:

Richard Casady wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 13:35:15 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

The first problem comes when you attempt to locate proper heavy duty
thimbles for the eyes. Damned hard to find. Next comes splicing the
eyes in the cables. Again, if you can do it yourself and have the
tools then go for it but if you are paying rigger's rates then get
your wallet ready.

Don't they have fittings that avoid the eyesplice, for stainless, but
not for galvanized? That would do it even if stainless is six times as
costly. I don't know about those compression sleeves. I remember in
the fifties when Lands End sold nothing but sailboat stuff. They had
sleeves and a tool that looked like a boltcutter.

No, I was referring specifically to thimbles used in eye splices as I
assumed that if one were complaining about costs one wouldn't want to
buy swedge fittings as a non-stainless swedge fitting any where that
it gets salt water on it probably has a shorter life then a properly
made and served eye splice.


Poured socket terminals were the 'gold standard' for wire rope terminals
for the greater part of the last century. The end of the rope is
splayed in a controlled fashion and spelter (usually zinc alloy) is
poured in to the terminal to form a solid wedge retaining the rope.
Used to be the Navy standard for all wire terminals used for safety
critical lifting. Works for galvanized and bare steel wire but I believe
its not so good for stainless as the spelter doesn't wet the strands
properly.
Check out chapter 10 of:
http://www.fastlift.co.za/pdf/CASAR%20-%20Wire%20rope%20end%20connections.pdf

Called "spelter sockets". There is a boat builder in Phuket that has
proper bronze fittings cast and uses them from time to time. They used
to be common around cranes but have largely been replaced by wedge
sockets as the poured sockets take a bit of skill to make. Or perhaps
more accurately, a bit of attention paid to the proper technique.

for instructions. It should be noted that unlike most other terminal
systems, it does not de-rate the wire strength from 100%


I think you'll find that sta-lock type of fitting will test stronger
then the cable. One test was 107% of rated cable strength.

The tools and materials to do it are affordable and can be carried on
board nearly any boat, the terminals are generally reusable and the
galvanic compatibility is good, but you do need to be ashore or in a
very sheltered location to work with molten spelter so some screw down
compression fittings of any of the types suitable for galvanised wire
would need to be stocked for any repairs under way.

The spelter is just zinc in most cases.

You can get 3/8 galv. for less than a buck a foot, breaking strength
14 000 lbs. My original reference was to anchor rode, and you can bet
the ranch it wasn't stainless. You can brush grease over a wire filled
winch drum and not get it on the rest of the boat.

People who aren't useing it say it rusts. How come the zinc does not
afford anodic protection to the steel. I drive by the neighors steel
roof that has a third of the zinc gone, and no rust. No salt of
course. My dad built the Iowa schooner [only been the one] and used
galvanized. Whatever the local hardware store had.

Your neighbor's roof wasn't immersed in salt water very often either.
I doubt very much if galvanized wire will make a satisfactory anchor
rode as I can't see how you can wash all the salt out of the stands
so it will be rusting quietly away while on the drum.


Casady
Cheers,

Bruce

Your neighbor's roof wasn't immersed in salt water very often either.
I doubt very much if galvanized wire will make a *satisfactory anchor
rode as I can't see how you can wash all the salt out *of the stands
so it will be rusting quietly away while on the drum.



Casady

Cheers,

It makes a fine rode.
jiminy what do folks think work boats carry? we dont have ss anchor's
or rodes. the cost is prohibitive and the life span is not as good. SS
does not like to work. the only advantage SS has over good galv is
that it is not supposed to rust Ever (if you get the wrong formulation
it sure will). that still does not off set the cost diffrance.

SS is mostly Cash flash there are other things that work as well or
better and are cheaper to boot.

Two meter troll wrote:
....
It makes a fine rode.
jiminy what do folks think work boats carry? we don't have ss anchors
or rodes. the cost is prohibitive and the life span is not as good. SS
does not like to work. the only advantage SS has over good galv is
that it is not supposed to rust Ever (if you get the wrong formulation
it sure will). that still does not off set the cost difference.


A useful little test for the stainless believers goes like this.

Buy a bright shiny stainless bowl - like a surgical bowl or whatever.

Put a cup of salt water in it, and leave it outside.
Make sure it doesn't dry up. Check how long it takes to get a
pinhole in the bowl. Try again with tap water - you should get the
same result.....

Brian W

"Brian Whatcott" wrote in message
...
Two meter troll wrote:
...
It makes a fine rode.
jiminy what do folks think work boats carry? we don't have ss anchors
or rodes. the cost is prohibitive and the life span is not as good. SS
does not like to work. the only advantage SS has over good galv is
that it is not supposed to rust Ever (if you get the wrong formulation
it sure will). that still does not off set the cost difference.


A useful little test for the stainless believers goes like this.

Buy a bright shiny stainless bowl - like a surgical bowl or whatever.

Put a cup of salt water in it, and leave it outside.
Make sure it doesn't dry up. Check how long it takes to get a pinhole
in the bowl. Try again with tap water - you should get the same
result.....

Brian W

There are various grades of 'stainless' steel. The lower grades will be
attracted by a magnet and will be likely to behave as you describe.
The better grades are totally non-magnetic and are the only kind that should
be on boat fittings.
Take a small powerful magnet when you go to buy marine fittings as there is
a lot of low-grade stuff on offer even if it is being sold for marine use.

On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 10:26:40 +0100, "Edgar"
wrote:

There are various grades of 'stainless' steel. The lower grades will be
attracted by a magnet and will be likely to behave as you describe.
The better grades are totally non-magnetic and are the only kind that should
be on boat fittings.
Take a small powerful magnet when you go to buy marine fittings as there is
a lot of low-grade stuff on offer even if it is being sold for marine use.

My refrigerator is all nonmagnetic stainless, cost three grand more
than one with paint.

Casady

On Thu, 12 Feb 2009 18:50:35 -0600, Brian Whatcott
wrote:

Two meter troll wrote:
...
It makes a fine rode.
jiminy what do folks think work boats carry? we don't have ss anchors
or rodes. the cost is prohibitive and the life span is not as good. SS
does not like to work. the only advantage SS has over good galv is
that it is not supposed to rust Ever (if you get the wrong formulation
it sure will). that still does not off set the cost difference.


A useful little test for the stainless believers goes like this.

Buy a bright shiny stainless bowl - like a surgical bowl or whatever.

Put a cup of salt water in it, and leave it outside.
Make sure it doesn't dry up. Check how long it takes to get a
pinhole in the bowl. Try again with tap water - you should get the
same result.....

In that case, oxygen in the air can get at it to maintain the thin
layer of chromium oxide that protects it in the manner aluminum oxide
protecs aluminum. In the presence of salt and absence of oxygen, the
chloride attacks it. It can also rust. I had a stainless bowl develop
a pinhole in ordinary kitchen use. In the case of the so called
stainless hose clamps, check them with a magnet at the store. The
*******s often use plain carbon steel for the worm.

Casady