On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 23:46:11 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote:

How come stainless cable is more than six times as costly as
galvanized, yet nobody uses the galvanized. Stainless the same size
has about 80% of the breaking strength. Galvanized is what they guy
power poles with.

Casady


Basically using galvanized wire rope just takes a LOT more
maintenance, and a LOT more time to build. If you are doing your own
work then perhaps it is more economical, but if you are paying others
the it is doubtful

The first problem comes when you attempt to locate proper heavy duty
thimbles for the eyes. Damned hard to find. Next comes splicing the
eyes in the cables. Again, if you can do it yourself and have the
tools then go for it but if you are paying rigger's rates then get
your wallet ready.

Now you have the cables cut, spliced around proper heavy duty
thimbles. Next step is to worm, parcel and serve all splices and
usually the lower cables up 10 - 15 feet above the deck. Once that is
done you need to mix up some slushing and paint the cables, working it
well into the wrappings.

Now! At last, you can rig the boat. But remember that annually you
will need to inspect, replace worn wrappings and re-slush all the
cables and slushing is a mixture of tar, oil, Japan dryer and various
other arcane substances. (think roofing tar) so don't even begin to
think about slushing down the rigging while in a marina slip as you
will sprinkle not only your deck but your neighbor's decks with
sticky, black, tarry gunk.

Now, having said all that you might be interested that properly
maintained galvanized rigging will out last stainless.

Cheers,

Bruce

On Feb 9, 10:35 pm, Bruce wrote:
On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 23:46:11 GMT, (Richard

Casady) wrote:
How come stainless cable is more than six times as costly as
galvanized, yet nobody uses the galvanized. Stainless the same size
has about 80% of the breaking strength. Galvanized is what they guy
power poles with.

Casady

Basically using galvanized wire rope just takes a LOT more
maintenance, and a LOT more time to build. If you are doing your own
work then perhaps it is more economical, but if you are paying others
the it is doubtful

The first problem comes when you attempt to locate proper heavy duty
thimbles for the eyes. Damned hard to find. Next comes splicing the
eyes in the cables. Again, if you can do it yourself and have the
tools then go for it but if you are paying rigger's rates then get
your wallet ready.

Now you have the cables cut, spliced around proper heavy duty
thimbles. Next step is to worm, parcel and serve all splices and
usually the lower cables up 10 - 15 feet above the deck. Once that is
done you need to mix up some slushing and paint the cables, working it
well into the wrappings.

Now! At last, you can rig the boat. But remember that annually you
will need to inspect, replace worn wrappings and re-slush all the
cables and slushing is a mixture of tar, oil, Japan dryer and various
other arcane substances. (think roofing tar) so don't even begin to
think about slushing down the rigging while in a marina slip as you
will sprinkle not only your deck but your neighbor's decks with
sticky, black, tarry gunk.

Now, having said all that you might be interested that properly
maintained galvanized rigging will out last stainless.

Cheers,

Bruce

Bruce where the hell do you get that idea? spend a couple pennies more
and get the better galv.
you just described what i do to my standing rigging and mine is all
manella and hemp. yes with proper care galv will out last SS but the
level of care is not serving the bloody thing. you soak the cable warm
for a bit till the grave penetrates the core and then gravy the
outside about twice a year.

On Mon, 9 Feb 2009 22:45:55 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll
wrote:

On Feb 9, 10:35 pm, Bruce wrote:
On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 23:46:11 GMT, (Richard

Casady) wrote:
How come stainless cable is more than six times as costly as
galvanized, yet nobody uses the galvanized. Stainless the same size
has about 80% of the breaking strength. Galvanized is what they guy
power poles with.

Casady

Basically using galvanized wire rope just takes a LOT more
maintenance, and a LOT more time to build. If you are doing your own
work then perhaps it is more economical, but if you are paying others
the it is doubtful

The first problem comes when you attempt to locate proper heavy duty
thimbles for the eyes. Damned hard to find. Next comes splicing the
eyes in the cables. Again, if you can do it yourself and have the
tools then go for it but if you are paying rigger's rates then get
your wallet ready.

Now you have the cables cut, spliced around proper heavy duty
thimbles. Next step is to worm, parcel and serve all splices and
usually the lower cables up 10 - 15 feet above the deck. Once that is
done you need to mix up some slushing and paint the cables, working it
well into the wrappings.

Now! At last, you can rig the boat. But remember that annually you
will need to inspect, replace worn wrappings and re-slush all the
cables and slushing is a mixture of tar, oil, Japan dryer and various
other arcane substances. (think roofing tar) so don't even begin to
think about slushing down the rigging while in a marina slip as you
will sprinkle not only your deck but your neighbor's decks with
sticky, black, tarry gunk.

Now, having said all that you might be interested that properly
maintained galvanized rigging will out last stainless.

Cheers,

Bruce

Bruce where the hell do you get that idea? spend a couple pennies more
and get the better galv.
you just described what i do to my standing rigging and mine is all
manella and hemp. yes with proper care galv will out last SS but the
level of care is not serving the bloody thing. you soak the cable warm
for a bit till the grave penetrates the core and then gravy the
outside about twice a year.


If you want galvanize to last 15 - 20 - 30 years, or longer, then you
do it the old fashioned way I described. Otherwise you will be
changing the stuff every ten years or so.

Hell, I've seen boats rigged with telephone pole cables and cable
clips. It works but you get to replace the rigging pretty often.

If your standing rigging is all hemp and manila how are you making
the terminations? Spliced eyes or served?
Cheers,

Bruce

On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 22:53:24 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

If your standing rigging is all hemp and manila how are you making
the terminations? Spliced eyes or served?

Perhaps deadeyes at the bottom end, so maybe both? My dad could do all
the splices. He made a rope ladder, all rope, no wood steps, and not
anchored at the bottom. Only a kid trying to get to the tree platform
would put up with it. To digress, the mountain climbers have short
rope ladders with four inch aluminum steps. Why not a long one and
haul it up with a halyard. I guess a bosuns chair is far better,
unless you are alone. I believe ladder steps are far cheaper than mast
steps. Not marine. I am a coward, and don't want to climb ladders
without a harness clipped to a halyard, with someone tending the other
end.

Casady

On Feb 10, 7:53 am, Bruce wrote:
On Mon, 9 Feb 2009 22:45:55 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll



wrote:
On Feb 9, 10:35 pm, Bruce wrote:
On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 23:46:11 GMT, (Richard

Casady) wrote:
How come stainless cable is more than six times as costly as
galvanized, yet nobody uses the galvanized. Stainless the same size
has about 80% of the breaking strength. Galvanized is what they guy
power poles with.

Casady

Basically using galvanized wire rope just takes a LOT more
maintenance, and a LOT more time to build. If you are doing your own
work then perhaps it is more economical, but if you are paying others
the it is doubtful

The first problem comes when you attempt to locate proper heavy duty
thimbles for the eyes. Damned hard to find. Next comes splicing the
eyes in the cables. Again, if you can do it yourself and have the
tools then go for it but if you are paying rigger's rates then get
your wallet ready.

Now you have the cables cut, spliced around proper heavy duty
thimbles. Next step is to worm, parcel and serve all splices and
usually the lower cables up 10 - 15 feet above the deck. Once that is
done you need to mix up some slushing and paint the cables, working it
well into the wrappings.

Now! At last, you can rig the boat. But remember that annually you
will need to inspect, replace worn wrappings and re-slush all the
cables and slushing is a mixture of tar, oil, Japan dryer and various
other arcane substances. (think roofing tar) so don't even begin to
think about slushing down the rigging while in a marina slip as you
will sprinkle not only your deck but your neighbor's decks with
sticky, black, tarry gunk.

Now, having said all that you might be interested that properly
maintained galvanized rigging will out last stainless.

Cheers,

Bruce

Bruce where the hell do you get that idea? spend a couple pennies more
and get the better galv.
you just described what i do to my standing rigging and mine is all
manella and hemp. yes with proper care galv will out last SS but the
level of care is not serving the bloody thing. you soak the cable warm
for a bit till the grave penetrates the core and then gravy the
outside about twice a year.

If you want galvanize to last 15 - 20 - 30 years, or longer, then you
do it the old fashioned way I described. Otherwise you will be
changing the stuff every ten years or so.

Hell, I've seen boats rigged with telephone pole cables and cable
clips. It works but you get to replace the rigging pretty often.

If your standing rigging is all hemp and manila how are you making
the terminations? Spliced eyes or served?
Cheers,

Bruce

depends on where it is. on most they go to the upper dead eye and eye
spliced the wormed puddinged out parceled and served then a leather
is sewn in and well oiled. the lower dead eyes are strapped and the
lanyard is wormed parceled and served as well. each bolt that has a
line to it has a thimble and a spliced eye treated the same . this is
how my cargo boom mast and stops are set up

On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:03:10 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll
wrote:

On Feb 10, 7:53 am, Bruce wrote:
On Mon, 9 Feb 2009 22:45:55 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll



wrote:
On Feb 9, 10:35 pm, Bruce wrote:
On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 23:46:11 GMT, (Richard

Casady) wrote:
How come stainless cable is more than six times as costly as
galvanized, yet nobody uses the galvanized. Stainless the same size
has about 80% of the breaking strength. Galvanized is what they guy
power poles with.

Casady

Basically using galvanized wire rope just takes a LOT more
maintenance, and a LOT more time to build. If you are doing your own
work then perhaps it is more economical, but if you are paying others
the it is doubtful

The first problem comes when you attempt to locate proper heavy duty
thimbles for the eyes. Damned hard to find. Next comes splicing the
eyes in the cables. Again, if you can do it yourself and have the
tools then go for it but if you are paying rigger's rates then get
your wallet ready.

Now you have the cables cut, spliced around proper heavy duty
thimbles. Next step is to worm, parcel and serve all splices and
usually the lower cables up 10 - 15 feet above the deck. Once that is
done you need to mix up some slushing and paint the cables, working it
well into the wrappings.

Now! At last, you can rig the boat. But remember that annually you
will need to inspect, replace worn wrappings and re-slush all the
cables and slushing is a mixture of tar, oil, Japan dryer and various
other arcane substances. (think roofing tar) so don't even begin to
think about slushing down the rigging while in a marina slip as you
will sprinkle not only your deck but your neighbor's decks with
sticky, black, tarry gunk.

Now, having said all that you might be interested that properly
maintained galvanized rigging will out last stainless.

Cheers,

Bruce

Bruce where the hell do you get that idea? spend a couple pennies more
and get the better galv.
you just described what i do to my standing rigging and mine is all
manella and hemp. yes with proper care galv will out last SS but the
level of care is not serving the bloody thing. you soak the cable warm
for a bit till the grave penetrates the core and then gravy the
outside about twice a year.

If you want galvanize to last 15 - 20 - 30 years, or longer, then you
do it the old fashioned way I described. Otherwise you will be
changing the stuff every ten years or so.

Hell, I've seen boats rigged with telephone pole cables and cable
clips. It works but you get to replace the rigging pretty often.

If your standing rigging is all hemp and manila how are you making
the terminations? Spliced eyes or served?
Cheers,

Bruce

depends on where it is. on most they go to the upper dead eye and eye
spliced the wormed puddinged out parceled and served then a leather
is sewn in and well oiled. the lower dead eyes are strapped and the
lanyard is wormed parceled and served as well. each bolt that has a
line to it has a thimble and a spliced eye treated the same . this is
how my cargo boom mast and stops are set up

Which is partially what I was talking about.

How much per shroud/stay for a rigger to do all this splicing -
serving - parceling -etc plus the annual inspection and re-slushing?
As apposed to cutting a length of stainless and either swedging a
terminal on the ends, or screwing on a sta-lock fitting. Inspection is
a yearly look at the terminals with a magnifying glass.

Just as the old cotton sails, the initial motivation is to decrease
maintenance.
Cheers,

Bruce

On Feb 10, 4:39 pm, Bruce wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:03:10 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll



wrote:
On Feb 10, 7:53 am, Bruce wrote:
On Mon, 9 Feb 2009 22:45:55 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll

wrote:
On Feb 9, 10:35 pm, Bruce wrote:
On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 23:46:11 GMT, (Richard

Casady) wrote:
How come stainless cable is more than six times as costly as
galvanized, yet nobody uses the galvanized. Stainless the same size
has about 80% of the breaking strength. Galvanized is what they guy
power poles with.

Casady

Basically using galvanized wire rope just takes a LOT more
maintenance, and a LOT more time to build. If you are doing your own
work then perhaps it is more economical, but if you are paying others
the it is doubtful

The first problem comes when you attempt to locate proper heavy duty
thimbles for the eyes. Damned hard to find. Next comes splicing the
eyes in the cables. Again, if you can do it yourself and have the
tools then go for it but if you are paying rigger's rates then get
your wallet ready.

Now you have the cables cut, spliced around proper heavy duty
thimbles. Next step is to worm, parcel and serve all splices and
usually the lower cables up 10 - 15 feet above the deck. Once that is
done you need to mix up some slushing and paint the cables, working it
well into the wrappings.

Now! At last, you can rig the boat. But remember that annually you
will need to inspect, replace worn wrappings and re-slush all the
cables and slushing is a mixture of tar, oil, Japan dryer and various
other arcane substances. (think roofing tar) so don't even begin to
think about slushing down the rigging while in a marina slip as you
will sprinkle not only your deck but your neighbor's decks with
sticky, black, tarry gunk.

Now, having said all that you might be interested that properly
maintained galvanized rigging will out last stainless.

Cheers,

Bruce

Bruce where the hell do you get that idea? spend a couple pennies more
and get the better galv.
you just described what i do to my standing rigging and mine is all
manella and hemp. yes with proper care galv will out last SS but the
level of care is not serving the bloody thing. you soak the cable warm
for a bit till the grave penetrates the core and then gravy the
outside about twice a year.

If you want galvanize to last 15 - 20 - 30 years, or longer, then you
do it the old fashioned way I described. Otherwise you will be
changing the stuff every ten years or so.

Hell, I've seen boats rigged with telephone pole cables and cable
clips. It works but you get to replace the rigging pretty often.

If your standing rigging is all hemp and manila how are you making
the terminations? Spliced eyes or served?
Cheers,

Bruce

depends on where it is. on most they go to the upper dead eye and eye
spliced the wormed puddinged out parceled and served then a leather
is sewn in and well oiled. the lower dead eyes are strapped and the
lanyard is wormed parceled and served as well. each bolt that has a
line to it has a thimble and a spliced eye treated the same . this is
how my cargo boom mast and stops are set up

Which is partially what I was talking about.

How much per shroud/stay for a rigger to do all this splicing -
serving - parceling -etc plus the annual inspection and re-slushing?
As apposed to cutting a length of stainless and either swedging a
terminal on the ends, or screwing on a sta-lock fitting. Inspection is
a yearly look at the terminals with a magnifying glass.

Just as the old cotton sails, the initial motivation is to decrease
maintenance.
Cheers,

Bruce

once the rigging is up it hardly takes much time. I understand the
Maintainer time issue, I dont tend to agree with it but i do
understand. However i have yet to see anyone running Galve that spends
much time on the rigging. certs not more than a day a year. IMO folks
should take a day a year and run through the rigging in any case. Ahh
well I'll keep mine no matter its quiet and easy to work. I am a lazy
old troll.

On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 13:35:15 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

The first problem comes when you attempt to locate proper heavy duty
thimbles for the eyes. Damned hard to find. Next comes splicing the
eyes in the cables. Again, if you can do it yourself and have the
tools then go for it but if you are paying rigger's rates then get
your wallet ready.

Don't they have fittings that avoid the eyesplice, for stainless, but
not for galvanized? That would do it even if stainless is six times as
costly. I don't know about those compression sleeves. I remember in
the fifties when Lands End sold nothing but sailboat stuff. They had
sleeves and a tool that looked like a boltcutter.

You can get 3/8 galv. for less than a buck a foot, breaking strength
14 000 lbs. My original reference was to anchor rode, and you can bet
the ranch it wasn't stainless. You can brush grease over a wire filled
winch drum and not get it on the rest of the boat.

People who aren't useing it say it rusts. How come the zinc does not
afford anodic protection to the steel. I drive by the neighors steel
roof that has a third of the zinc gone, and no rust. No salt of
course. My dad built the Iowa schooner [only been the one] and used
galvanized. Whatever the local hardware store had.

Casady

Casady

"Richard Casady" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 13:35:15 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

The first problem comes when you attempt to locate proper heavy duty
thimbles for the eyes. Damned hard to find. Next comes splicing the
eyes in the cables. Again, if you can do it yourself and have the
tools then go for it but if you are paying rigger's rates then get
your wallet ready.

Don't they have fittings that avoid the eyesplice, for stainless, but
not for galvanized? That would do it even if stainless is six times as
costly. I don't know about those compression sleeves. I remember in
the fifties when Lands End sold nothing but sailboat stuff. They had
sleeves and a tool that looked like a boltcutter.

Yes, you can get compression fittings for galvanised wire as well as
stainless.
I have the gear to do my own splices by the Talurit system, which makes a
very neat job with a 20 ton hydraulic press.
The only difference is that you use aluminium ferrules for galvd. and
copper ones for stainless.
You can use these copper ferrules also for 1 x 19 wire if you don't want to
go for swaging. In that case you use the next larger ferrule because 1 x 19
is much more resistant to compression than stranded.

I have no experience of the systems worked by a sort of bolt cutter but
would not be certain that the average person could produce enough force to
compress a copper ferrule.
I am about to fit new steering wires to my boat if it ever stops snowing.
The old ones are terminated with Nico-press fittings but I have made Talurit
splices on the new ones.

Edgar wrote:

I have no experience of the systems worked by a sort of bolt cutter but
would not be certain that the average person could produce enough force to
compress a copper ferrule.
I am about to fit new steering wires to my boat if it ever stops snowing.
The old ones are terminated with Nico-press fittings but I have made Talurit
splices on the new ones.


The Nicopress sleeves used to terminate galvanized aircraft control
cables are made of copper, and the aircraft supply companies suggest
zinc coated copper sleeves for stainless wire cable. Aluminum sleeves
are often stocked in hardware stores - they do well with galvanized
cable in the smaller diameters to 3/16 inch certainly.
A sleeve set by a reworked bolt cutter needs a little care, because as
you can easily imagine, it is quite possible to squeeze the diameter
over the two cables far too skinny with this tool.
That's what a gage is for.
Grinding a bolt cutter's blades into two semicircles of the appropriate
size works well. A sleeve (or ferrule) is squeezed three times, but
NEVER at different angles, or at right angles to and over an existing
squeeze. That about guarantees a slip, in a joint which will otherwise
hold up over 90% of the rated breaking strain of the cable, often over 100%.

Brian W