40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

Tamaroak wrote:

Another question: Which is easier on the engine, ten miles up on plane
for a half hour at 3600 rpm or ten miles for an hour and two thirds at
hull speed at 1600 rpm?

The same engine producing less horsepower will last longer than if it
produced max power ... you have a certain amount of horsepower hours in
the machine, take them all out in a hurry or stretch them out, it's up
to you.

Rick

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

Another question: Which is easier on the engine...

.... ten miles for an hour and two thirds at
hull speed at 1600 rpm?

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

The same engine producing less horsepower will last longer than if it
produced max power ... you have a certain amount of horsepower hours in
the machine, take them all out in a hurry or stretch them out, it's up
to you.

rick just gain the hammer mechanic's point of view. Like most things hammer
mechanics say, it is wrong.

"horsepower hours" (what a weird thing for rick to say) go up as the engine is
used "more nicely". Expensive, finely tuned Indy race car engines won't go
that many miles past 500 at WFO throttle, but will last thousands of hours if
you don't beat the crap out of them.

That said, a boat built and engined to plane is not a boat an owner usually
wants to piddle up and down the bay in. such boats usually have just two
throttle positions, Go and No-Go.

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

rick, it is not possible to have a rational discussion with you. Try as I have
in the past, you ALWAYS fail to keep up and then you spout superstition and
voodoo science as the fact of the realm. In fact, if you were to read your
post below you STILL have no idea how the prop is used to prelube an engine.
You just aren't capable of understanding.

From: Rick
Date: 6/25/2004 11:04 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: t

JAXAshby wrote:
Only one more of his one line retorts rather than address the issues ...

Jax, you are running true to form. You have nothing on which to base
your arguments, you have been trashed again by those of us who know and
do what you can only dream about, and now all you can do is paste lame
insults.

You are a loser Jax. A Walter Mitty wannabe loser who has nothing but a
computer to fill out an empty existence.

What's the matter loser, afraid to talk about engines? You should be you
don't know squat about them and it shows.

Tell us again how pulling the prop over "prelubes" the engine ... Don't
you want to talk about the engines that actually prevent oil from
entering the oil pump during a start? Way over your head but that
doesn't take too much as we all can see.

Bwahahahahahahahahahah What a freakin' moron.

Rick

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

gene, oil pumps (on the engines under discussion) sit in the oil sump bathed in
oil. They are ready to pump oil on rev #1.

How about having enough experience to know that outside of a
theoretically perfect pump, that the pump is not primed and won't be
so without spinning it fast enough?

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

How about all the parts in the engine being motored over that run dry
until you are spinning the engine over fast enough to splash the oil ?

which parts is that? The pistons?

the cylinders have an oil film on them to begin with. the bearings requiring
pressure oil do not have pressure oil to them until they have pressure oil to
them, which they can't get until the galleys are first full of oil and then
pressurized.

you were supposed to have learned this well before you got that license you
brag about having.

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

the pump is not primed and won't be
so without spinning it fast enough?

you obviously don't have a clew how oil pumps have been engineered on ic
engines for the last 110 years.

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

the pump is not 100% positive
displacement

oh, it is negative displacement what % of the time?

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

Not bragging Jax.

yeah you are, and about a license a savy 18 year old kid could get.

How about sour grapes because you didn't get the same certification
that your 18 year old friend got?

I was studying physics when I was 18.

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

No training, no age requirement, no skill level, no standard of
competence.........

At age 12, I was being paid to repair engines that men my father's and
grandfather's ages were unable or willing repair.

Fixing engines is easy. Knowing what to fix is the hard part. For most
people.

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

On 26 Jun 2004 01:26:28 GMT, something compelled
(JAXAshby), to say:

The same engine producing less horsepower will last longer than if it
produced max power ... you have a certain amount of horsepower hours in
the machine, take them all out in a hurry or stretch them out, it's up
to you.

rick just gain the hammer mechanic's point of view. Like most things hammer
mechanics say, it is wrong.

"horsepower hours" (what a weird thing for rick to say) go up as the engine is
used "more nicely". Expensive, finely tuned Indy race car engines won't go
that many miles past 500 at WFO throttle, but will last thousands of hours if
you don't beat the crap out of them.

Apparently you can read faster than you can think, as well.

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

steve, it is near 10:00 at night and you have had too much to drink. you are
incoherent.

From: "Steve Daniels, Seek of Spam"
Date: 6/25/2004 9:46 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

On 26 Jun 2004 01:26:28 GMT, something compelled
(JAXAshby), to say:

The same engine producing less horsepower will last longer than if it
produced max power ... you have a certain amount of horsepower hours in
the machine, take them all out in a hurry or stretch them out, it's up
to you.

rick just gain the hammer mechanic's point of view. Like most things hammer
mechanics say, it is wrong.

"horsepower hours" (what a weird thing for rick to say) go up as the engine
is
used "more nicely". Expensive, finely tuned Indy race car engines won't go
that many miles past 500 at WFO throttle, but will last thousands of hours
if
you don't beat the crap out of them.

Apparently you can read faster than you can think, as well.

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

I made no mention at all of radial engines, those antiques of more than a half
century ago. They were not under discussion by anyone in this universe. in
rickie's universe or your universe maybe, but not this universe as the term is
used by 6,000,000,000 people.

gene, oil pumps (on the engines under discussion) sit in the oil sump bathed
in
oil. They are ready to pump oil on rev #1.

How about having enough experience to know that outside of a
theoretically perfect pump, that the pump is not primed and won't be
so without spinning it fast enough?



They certainly are NOT in the sump..... that single statement shows
that you have no idea about the construction of these engines. In
fact, half of the engines that you have expounded upon are dry sump
engines...... good grief...... clueless....

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.linksysnet.com Real Time
Pictures at My Marina
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

until scraped off by the oil control ring

you obviously don't have a clew what an oil control ring does. It seems you
learned whatever you ever learned from some superstitious hammer mechanic.

gene, from the way you talk it is obvious that you just keep on replacing parts
on an engine needing repair until the beast runs.

fixing engines is easy, gene. knowing what to fix, that is the hard part.
knowing what to fix means knowing how the thing is supposed to work. you don't
have a clew, so you just keep on replacing parts.

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

Duh!....How profound. What about cam, lifters, rocker arms, push
rods,wrist pin, ? How do they get lubricated?

pressue oil.

timing gears,accessory case gears and accessories? How do they get
lubricated?

the bottom gear runs in the sump, so drags oil around with it

What about vacuum pump, etc.? How do they get lubricated?

never saw a vacuum pump mounted in the sump.

btw, gene, it is now obvious you don't have a clew what kind of surfaces
require pressure oil and what kinds don't. Obviously, you have no idea how an
engine actually runs.

I have never seen

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

gene, as is also the case with rickie, rational discussion with you is not
possible. you live in some universe known only to you. A common problem for
those operating on the back side of the power curve IQ-wise.

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

wait a minute, gene, YOU said they weren't 100% positive displacement. so, the
obvious question is: what % of the time are they negative displacement?

the question is nonsense, gene, because your statement is nonsense in the
context you made it. you were repeating something you heard way outside the
limits in which it was said, simply because you have no idea what it means.
you were just babbling, hoping to sound as if you belong in the universe of
people on this planet.

the pump is not 100% positive
displacement

oh, it is negative displacement what % of the time?

Pumps are only negative displacement in Jaxworld, where apparently
everything is JaxBackward.

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.linksysnet.com Real Time
Pictures at My Marina
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

Fixing engines is easy. Knowing what to fix is the hard part. For most
people.

Oh, boy.....


yeah, gene, that is a tough concept for an idiot like you to accept. But gut
it out, gene, for it is the creed of qualified mechanics everywhere. Not among
hammer mechanics to be sure, but certainly among all qualified mechanics. (you
think I made up those words? I first heard them more than 45 years ago.)

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

On 26 Jun 2004 01:52:03 GMT, something compelled
(JAXAshby), to say:

steve, it is near 10:00 at night

It's 1914, actually. I have two more hours of daylight left.

and you have had too much to drink. you are
incoherent.

I'm incoherent? You and Rick are in agreement, but you're so
willing to engage in . . . well, I'd like to call it debate but I
have too much respect for the art. You're so willing to argue
that you can't see that:

The same engine producing less horsepower will last longer than if it
produced max power

and:

Expensive, finely tuned Indy race car engines won't go
that many miles past 500 at WFO throttle, but will last thousands of hours
if
you don't beat the crap out of them.

say the same thing.

Maybe you should *start* drinking, glub knows it couldn't hurt
your "thought" processes.


From: "Steve Daniels, Seek of Spam"
Date: 6/25/2004 9:46 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

On 26 Jun 2004 01:26:28 GMT, something compelled
(JAXAshby), to say:

The same engine producing less horsepower will last longer than if it
produced max power ... you have a certain amount of horsepower hours in
the machine, take them all out in a hurry or stretch them out, it's up
to you.

rick just gain the hammer mechanic's point of view. Like most things hammer
mechanics say, it is wrong.

"horsepower hours" (what a weird thing for rick to say) go up as the engine
is
used "more nicely". Expensive, finely tuned Indy race car engines won't go
that many miles past 500 at WFO throttle, but will last thousands of hours
if
you don't beat the crap out of them.

Apparently you can read faster than you can think, as well.

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

JAXAshby wrote:
gene, oil pumps (on the engines under discussion) sit in the oil sump bathed in
oil. They are ready to pump oil on rev #1.


Hey moron, you might want to check and see where the oil pumps on
Lycoming and Continental flat engines are located.

What a freakin' moron you are Jax. Care to add more proof that you have
no clue whatsoever about aircraft engines?

Bwahahahahahahahahaha Loser wannabe loses again!

Rick

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

don't prelube an engine, rickie. hammer mechanics don't, why should you? race
car drivers have done it for decades, motorcycle racers have done it for
decades, aircraft owners have done it for decades, the US Navy has required it
for decades ..........

...... but they live in a rational universe unknown to you.

gene, oil pumps (on the engines under discussion) sit in the oil sump
bathed in
oil. They are ready to pump oil on rev #1.


Hey moron, you might want to check and see where the oil pumps on
Lycoming and Continental flat engines are located.

What a freakin' moron you are Jax. Care to add more proof that you have
no clue whatsoever about aircraft engines?

Bwahahahahahahahahaha Loser wannabe loses again!

Rick

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

JAXAshby wrote:
don't prelube an engine, rickie. hammer mechanics don't, why should you? race
car drivers have done it for decades, motorcycle racers have done it for
decades, aircraft owners have done it for decades, the US Navy has required it
for decades ..........

Hey moron, you didn't address the point did you ... so what else is new.
You claimed that the oil pumps were submerged in oil like a car
engine and you were once more shown to be an ignorant fool ****tling
along about stuff you have no clue about.

There are a few truisms he

1) Jax is a moron.

2) Pulling a prop through does not prelube the engine.

3) Jax doesn't know squat about aircraft engines or much else either.

4) Jax is a moron.

Rick

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

gene, you are incoherent.

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

it helps if you speak English, gene. I pointed out below the word you failed
to understand.


Fixing engines is easy. Knowing what to fix is the hard part. For most
people.

Oh, boy.....


You said, and I quote, "At age 12, I was being paid to repair engines
that men my father's and grandfather's

-------------- ages ------------

were unable or willing
repair."

My response was to your boast that at 12 years of age you were a
better mechanic than your father or grandfather.

Jax, do you really think that you were that smart or are you calling
your relatives stupid?

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.linksysnet.com Real Time
Pictures at My Marina
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

JAXAshby wrote:
gene, you are incoherent.

No, Jax, as usual you are simply incapable of understanding when someone
points out where you are wrong wrong wrong. You are the one with a problem.

Gene was perfectly coherent, he stated a fact that is is opposition to
your fantasy beliefs in aircraft engines. He probably does come across
as incoherent to you since you lack the intelligence to accept facts
when they slap you across the back of your speedos.

Give it up, Jax, the more you post the bigger the loser you show
yourself to be.

Rick

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

rickie, go ahead and start your engines (should you ever get a key to one) dry.
believe all you wish to that dry is better. go ahead. it is your engine.

scratch. grind. clatter. scrape. bang. smash. rub. whing. grit.


gene, you are incoherent.

No, Jax, as usual you are simply incapable of understanding when someone
points out where you are wrong wrong wrong. You are the one with a problem.

Gene was perfectly coherent, he stated a fact that is is opposition to
your fantasy beliefs in aircraft engines. He probably does come across
as incoherent to you since you lack the intelligence to accept facts
when they slap you across the back of your speedos.

Give it up, Jax, the more you post the bigger the loser you show
yourself to be.

Rick

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

gene, the size of words you tried to use are already bigger than you normally
use. It is your utter lack of capability of understanding of how engines work
that stands in your way.

just admit it, gene, you fix failed engines by replacing one thing after
another until the beast runs. you have to, for you don't know how they are
suppose to work so you can't tell what is wrong when they are not working.

fixing engines is easy, gene. knowing what to fix, that is the hard part.

now, go hammer on an engine block and pretend you are working.

gene, you are incoherent.

Sorry Jax, my fault, I'll try to use smaller words for you in the
future...

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.linksysnet.com Real Time
Pictures at My Marina
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

JAXAshby wrote:
rickie, go ahead and start your engines (should you ever get a key to one) dry.
believe all you wish to that dry is better. go ahead. it is your engine.

Jax, you've run out of options and are simply spewing rubbish. The
thread ended when you entered but it is now obvious that it really isn't
worth another post.

Just for the record here are the points on which you were, as usual, way
over your head technically and, as usual, got it totally wrong:

1) Aircraft engines are not prelubed by manually turning the prop.
2) Aircraft engines don't have the oil pump submerged in the sump.
3) Some aircraft engines prevent oil entering the pump on startup.

If you can't or won't stick to the subject you are not worth the
bandwidth to continue. You won't stick to the subject because you are
ignorant of the subject and every point you try to make is instantly
shown to be false and the result of your bizarre mental condition.

So long, Jax, it's been weird to read you. Don't let reality get in your
way.

Rick

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

On Saturday 26 June 2004 11:56 pm in rec.boats.cruising Rick wrote:


Just for the record here are the points on which you were, as usual, way
over your head technically and, as usual, got it totally wrong:

1) Aircraft engines are not prelubed by manually turning the prop.
2) Aircraft engines don't have the oil pump submerged in the sump.
3) Some aircraft engines prevent oil entering the pump on startup.

4) Radial engines are still in production and being fitted to new aircraft.

--
My real address is crn (at) netunix (dot) com
WARNING all messages containing attachments or html will be silently
deleted. Send only plain text.

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

Aircraft engines are not prelubed by manually turning the prop.

they are by intelligent owners. ignoramuses do what hammer mechanics do.
i.e., turn the key, brag how quickly the engine starts up and then rev the
grinding, clatterring beast up.

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

gene, go hammer on an engine block and pretend you are working. Dry start as
many engines as you can, for -- with your reputation -- you need as many broken
engines as possible to overload knowledgeable mechanics. I do hope you believe
in an afterlife, because you certainly are lost to this one.

gene, the size of words you tried to use are already bigger than you
normally
use. It is your utter lack of capability of understanding of how engines
work
that stands in your way.

just admit it, gene, you fix failed engines by replacing one thing after
another until the beast runs. you have to, for you don't know how they are
suppose to work so you can't tell what is wrong when they are not working.

fixing engines is easy, gene. knowing what to fix, that is the hard part.

now, go hammer on an engine block and pretend you are working.


Jax,

You are a bit like my dog. She is a fierce Glen of Imaal Terrier and
attacks with utter abandon.... formidable teeth bared, deep bark, and
no thought to retreat or defeat. She does, however, get the message
when I get her by the scruff of the neck..... you, on the other
hand... apparently with less that a K-9 IQ, just don't know when
somebody has you by the scruff of the neck.... since you hold Physics
up as your personal god, perhaps you'll get the, "cleansing the gene
pool law," but, then, perhaps not.

.... and a bit like time spent with my dog.... I *do* tire of the
endless and pointless games... fought just as a pastime....

Actually, now, bead blasting, priming, and painting cured, I finally
have something constructive to do.... I'm off...... don't despair,
however, the next time I'm not doing anything constructive and you
expound another one of your offbeat and largely comedic posts averring
knowledge far beyond your intelligence or some physics principle not
yet ported through the Star Gate.... I'll be there to, ah.......
debate....

Ta-Ta...

--



Grady-White Gulfstream, out of Southport, NC.

http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/cavern/ Homepage
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.com/directions.asp Where Southport,NC
is located.
http://www.southharbourvillageinn.linksysnet.com Real Time
Pictures at My Marina
http://www.thebayguide.com/rec.boats Rec.boats
at Lee Yeaton's Bayguide

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

Subject: 40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
From: Earl Haase

Wow! That sure generated a lot of talk here. I read your post and my
understanding is that your question was, would using 40 wt instead of 30
wt cause unreasonable wear to your genset engine.


You are correct.

The answer is no.

As I thought.

30
wt and 40 wt are not that much different. Once hot they will both do
the same job. A quick search on the web will show that both have pour
weights in the 20s (deg F) so start up lubrication will not be that much
different. As far as prelubing the engine before start up goes, do you
really care that much?

No.

Are you really going to do that faithfully? So
long as you don't sit there revving the engine before the oil pressure
comes up the gen engine should last for years.

Very true. And the owner is even now starting to shop for a bigger (130-150ft.)
boat to have in the next 18-24 months.


However, my guess is that the real issue here is making sure you don't
bust your warranties.

Correct again.

So if it matters that much write the generator
company and get them to give you written authorization to use the 40 wt
oil in the gen set. (My first choice.)

Tried that. They won't do it.

You might want to leave out
that you've already bought the unit. It just seems that once people
have your money they tend to be less helpful. Just tell them your
interested and want to know if their units can use 40 wt oil since
you're going places where they don't have a Pep Boys on every corner.

Didn't try that. Will next time. :-)


My second choice would be if worse comes to worse, how much oil do you
need for the gen set anyway?

5 or so gals. per.

And how many hours are you going to run it
compared to the mains?

A lot more. As the boat will be anchored out a lot on charter.

Not being a fan of multi weights I would suggest
that if you don't want to run 40 wt in the gen run it in the mains and
the trannys and keep a stash of 30 wt for the generator instead of the
other way around.

Basically what we are doing. 15-40W in the mains and gens, 40W for the trannys.

You can live without the gen set but it's a long walk
home without the mains.


True bruder, true.

Capt. Bill

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

As far as prelubing the engine before start up goes, do you
really care that much?

No.


according to the Yanmar distributor it is specificly recommended by Yanmar in
its manual.

prelubing is a good idea, and has been a good idea for decades.

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

Subject: 40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
From:

As far as prelubing the engine before start up goes, do you
really care that much?

No.


according to the Yanmar distributor it is specificly recommended by Yanmar in
its manual.

prelubing is a good idea, and has been a good idea for decades.

Never said it wasn't a good idea. Just not needed in this case.

Capt. Bill

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

Never said it wasn't a good idea. Just not needed in this case.

nothing is "needed". is just a better idea.

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

Good choice on the 15W-40, but no, no , no on the last paragraph.

Oils most assuredly do NOT get thicker with increasing temp, even if
they *are* non-Newtonian fluids.
Multi-grades MEET the viscosity requirement( for their grade) at low
temps AND at high temps( usually 100degC).
But the viscosity, measured in either SuS or cSt, decreases with
increasing temps..

You may enjoy hopping over to www.bobistheoilguy.com and spending some
time there. I think you'll find it worth your while. You may want to
also consider Shell Rotella synth 5W-40, and asking your mfrs about
extended drain schedules.

--

"LaBomba182" wrote in message
...
| Subject: 40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
| From: Bruce in Alaska
|
| (LaBomba182) wrote:
|
|| Thanks, I saw that in the eng. and genset manuals and that's what we
will end
| up doing. Filling the clean oil tank with 15-40W and keeping 40W in
bottles
| and/or pails for the trannys.
|
| Based on this I still can't see how straight 40W would hurt the
gensets in any
| way.
| As long as the ambient temps stay high.
|
| Hell, multi weight oils start out at their low number and get more
viscous as
| their temp rises.
|
|
|
| Capt. Bill

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

Sure you do. Your 90 deg F startup temp is a world of difference from
the 100 -110 deg C operating oil temps, in terms of pumpability.


"LaBomba182" wrote in message
...
| Subject: 40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
| From:
|
| Interestingly enough, 15-40W is spec correct for both the mains and
genset.
|
| 15-40W lubes a cold engine sooner upon cold engine start up than 30W
or 40W
| oil
| does.
|
| You can hear the difference.
|
| While that maybe true, in this case we will not be seeing low ambient
temps.
| And if we were to, we would change the weight of the oil.
|
| Capt. Bill

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

So which is easier on my engine, short period at high speed and load, or
long period at low load and speed?

Capt. jeff

Jax
 

Eeeewww!! Gross! Sorry, but I've been married for 13 years and
wouldn't touch Jax with Saddam Hussein's crab-infested right palm. I
have the page about him because he used to habitually troll on a
message board I was on, and his assholery became so legendary that he
made mention on our "in jokes" page he
http://fathom.org/teemingmillions/injokes.html ...From which he ended
up getting his very own page. I keep it up now because it makes me
happy that it ****es him off so much.

As it's clearly obvious he hasn't changed one iota I feel no remorse
whatsoever for maintaining the page.

rhys wrote in message . ..
Geez, did this woman dump JAX for non-performance issues or what.
Wait, here's a link at the bottom of the page....

^,,^ OpalCat
http://www.opalcat.com

40W oil causing wear problems over 30w?
 

Oils most assuredly do NOT get thicker with increasing temp,

agreed, even though I personally saw a man billed as a "training director" for
a large importer of diesel engines say that very thing. He got seriously
****ed when I asked him later via email if you had pulled a dipstick on a warm
engine any time in the last 40 years.