slide wrote:
Vic Smith wrote:


Though I can't disagree with anything you've said, I do think the
Israeli jews believe they will be slaughtered, or exiled from Israel
should they treat Palestinians like we in the U.S. treat Mexicans or
blacks. I'm not sure of that, but if were an Israeli I suspect I
would take that tack. Though we've been multicultural throughout our
history, there is plenty of opposition here in the U.S. to letting the
language aspect of multiculturalism bleed into everyday life. I get a
bit ****ed every time I'm asked to choose 1 or 2 on the phone.
Wouldn't think of moving to Mexico and conducting business on the
phone without speaking Spanish.
So I'm sure we agree on some things.
My support for the Palestinians dried up when Israel finally withdrew
from the occupied territories and I saw the result.
Not a damned thing changed. Blood lust. Not too different than the
other radical Muslims.
Except when I feel the lust myself - and I have - I take no sides.
These are just off the cuff remarks, and I may be wrong about much of
it, and since nobody pays for my opinions, that's what they're worth.
Nothing. But I do like to write them down now and then.
And hear others' opinions.



The reasoning you give for the Jews demanding an essentially ethnically
clean State is the one that Israelis living here have said to me. Their
argument is identical to the whites in South Africa before the black
takeover. They won't live in a non-Jewish (non white when it comes to
SA) state.

Why? Would those same Jews demand that no area, no voting district, no
precinct in the US be less than 51% white?

The problem, as I understand it, with the areas now in fully Palestinian
hands is that there are no ways to make a living there. There is no
industry. No capital. Nothing. Sure, many impoverished Jews showed up in
Israel during the past 60 years (or more) but they were sponsored by
wealthy Jews from other lands such as Britain and the USA.

What causes radical Muslims? Part of it must be that there is nothing
for them to lose in this world so they become easy to convince that
their payoff is in taking out a few Jews rather than living a welfare
life in some camp forever. Look at these guys as being Mexicans peering
across the border to a prosperous land they wish to enter & work in.
They can't because they are caged up, wall up and patrolled with machine
guns.

I am NOT defending random tossing of missiles into Israel by these guys.
Not even close. I'm only saying that, IMO, US policy isn't looking at
the entire picture.

Part of the entire picture is that Israel has created a secular,
democratic, free society that is very attractive to many if only because
it is so rare in that area. Israel, while not perfect, is a shining
beacon of morality and opportunity and that is the biggest reason
radical Islam wants it destroyed. It is also the biggest reason it is
our duty to help defend it.

Stephen

"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message
news
slide wrote:
Vic Smith wrote:


Though I can't disagree with anything you've said, I do think the
Israeli jews believe they will be slaughtered, or exiled from Israel
should they treat Palestinians like we in the U.S. treat Mexicans or
blacks. I'm not sure of that, but if were an Israeli I suspect I
would take that tack. Though we've been multicultural throughout our
history, there is plenty of opposition here in the U.S. to letting the
language aspect of multiculturalism bleed into everyday life. I get a
bit ****ed every time I'm asked to choose 1 or 2 on the phone. Wouldn't
think of moving to Mexico and conducting business on the
phone without speaking Spanish.
So I'm sure we agree on some things.
My support for the Palestinians dried up when Israel finally withdrew
from the occupied territories and I saw the result.
Not a damned thing changed. Blood lust. Not too different than the
other radical Muslims.
Except when I feel the lust myself - and I have - I take no sides.
These are just off the cuff remarks, and I may be wrong about much of
it, and since nobody pays for my opinions, that's what they're worth.
Nothing. But I do like to write them down now and then.
And hear others' opinions.



The reasoning you give for the Jews demanding an essentially ethnically
clean State is the one that Israelis living here have said to me. Their
argument is identical to the whites in South Africa before the black
takeover. They won't live in a non-Jewish (non white when it comes to SA)
state.

Why? Would those same Jews demand that no area, no voting district, no
precinct in the US be less than 51% white?

The problem, as I understand it, with the areas now in fully Palestinian
hands is that there are no ways to make a living there. There is no
industry. No capital. Nothing. Sure, many impoverished Jews showed up in
Israel during the past 60 years (or more) but they were sponsored by
wealthy Jews from other lands such as Britain and the USA.

What causes radical Muslims? Part of it must be that there is nothing for
them to lose in this world so they become easy to convince that their
payoff is in taking out a few Jews rather than living a welfare life in
some camp forever. Look at these guys as being Mexicans peering across
the border to a prosperous land they wish to enter & work in. They can't
because they are caged up, wall up and patrolled with machine guns.

I am NOT defending random tossing of missiles into Israel by these guys.
Not even close. I'm only saying that, IMO, US policy isn't looking at the
entire picture.

Part of the entire picture is that Israel has created a secular,
democratic, free society that is very attractive to many if only because
it is so rare in that area. Israel, while not perfect, is a shining beacon
of morality and opportunity and that is the biggest reason radical Islam
wants it destroyed. It is also the biggest reason it is our duty to help
defend it.

Stephen


Whew.. I don't usually agree with you, but your comments (taken with the
appropriately size grains of salt) I mostly agree with.

My editing... the society is mostly secular, but not completely, since it is
the "Jewish State," it is democratic, and as "free" as you can get, given
that there are things like a compulsary draft, it is certainly not perfect,
neither with the freedoms it embodies nor with its morality, but it's the
best one we've got in the neighborhood. Even Nixon agreed we needed to
defend it. But, it's like saying that one should defend one's mother, drunk
or sober. We need to be push Israel to do more for the Palestinians, just as
we must defend her against police states, such as Syria.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Capt. JG wrote:
"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message
news
slide wrote:
Vic Smith wrote:

Though I can't disagree with anything you've said, I do think the
Israeli jews believe they will be slaughtered, or exiled from Israel
should they treat Palestinians like we in the U.S. treat Mexicans or
blacks. I'm not sure of that, but if were an Israeli I suspect I
would take that tack. Though we've been multicultural throughout our
history, there is plenty of opposition here in the U.S. to letting the
language aspect of multiculturalism bleed into everyday life. I get a
bit ****ed every time I'm asked to choose 1 or 2 on the phone. Wouldn't
think of moving to Mexico and conducting business on the
phone without speaking Spanish.
So I'm sure we agree on some things.
My support for the Palestinians dried up when Israel finally withdrew
from the occupied territories and I saw the result.
Not a damned thing changed. Blood lust. Not too different than the
other radical Muslims.
Except when I feel the lust myself - and I have - I take no sides.
These are just off the cuff remarks, and I may be wrong about much of
it, and since nobody pays for my opinions, that's what they're worth.
Nothing. But I do like to write them down now and then.
And hear others' opinions.


The reasoning you give for the Jews demanding an essentially ethnically
clean State is the one that Israelis living here have said to me. Their
argument is identical to the whites in South Africa before the black
takeover. They won't live in a non-Jewish (non white when it comes to SA)
state.

Why? Would those same Jews demand that no area, no voting district, no
precinct in the US be less than 51% white?

The problem, as I understand it, with the areas now in fully Palestinian
hands is that there are no ways to make a living there. There is no
industry. No capital. Nothing. Sure, many impoverished Jews showed up in
Israel during the past 60 years (or more) but they were sponsored by
wealthy Jews from other lands such as Britain and the USA.

What causes radical Muslims? Part of it must be that there is nothing for
them to lose in this world so they become easy to convince that their
payoff is in taking out a few Jews rather than living a welfare life in
some camp forever. Look at these guys as being Mexicans peering across
the border to a prosperous land they wish to enter & work in. They can't
because they are caged up, wall up and patrolled with machine guns.

I am NOT defending random tossing of missiles into Israel by these guys.
Not even close. I'm only saying that, IMO, US policy isn't looking at the
entire picture.
Part of the entire picture is that Israel has created a secular,
democratic, free society that is very attractive to many if only because
it is so rare in that area. Israel, while not perfect, is a shining beacon
of morality and opportunity and that is the biggest reason radical Islam
wants it destroyed. It is also the biggest reason it is our duty to help
defend it.

Stephen


Whew.. I don't usually agree with you, but your comments (taken with the
appropriately size grains of salt) I mostly agree with.

My editing... the society is mostly secular, but not completely, since it is
the "Jewish State,"

I was watching a program about the best commercials of the year and
there was a commercial from Israel with crazy dancing rabbis saying that
HD TV was so good you'd go to hell for watching it. That qualifies as
secular enough IMO.

Stephen

Stephen Trapani wrote:

I was watching a program about the best commercials of the year and
there was a commercial from Israel with crazy dancing rabbis saying that
HD TV was so good you'd go to hell for watching it. That qualifies as
secular enough IMO.

Here it is!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcZHZN8f_v8


Stephen

"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message
news
slide wrote:
Vic Smith wrote:

Though I can't disagree with anything you've said, I do think the
Israeli jews believe they will be slaughtered, or exiled from Israel
should they treat Palestinians like we in the U.S. treat Mexicans or
blacks. I'm not sure of that, but if were an Israeli I suspect I
would take that tack. Though we've been multicultural throughout our
history, there is plenty of opposition here in the U.S. to letting the
language aspect of multiculturalism bleed into everyday life. I get a
bit ****ed every time I'm asked to choose 1 or 2 on the phone.
Wouldn't think of moving to Mexico and conducting business on the
phone without speaking Spanish.
So I'm sure we agree on some things.
My support for the Palestinians dried up when Israel finally withdrew
from the occupied territories and I saw the result.
Not a damned thing changed. Blood lust. Not too different than the
other radical Muslims.
Except when I feel the lust myself - and I have - I take no sides.
These are just off the cuff remarks, and I may be wrong about much of
it, and since nobody pays for my opinions, that's what they're worth.
Nothing. But I do like to write them down now and then.
And hear others' opinions.


The reasoning you give for the Jews demanding an essentially ethnically
clean State is the one that Israelis living here have said to me. Their
argument is identical to the whites in South Africa before the black
takeover. They won't live in a non-Jewish (non white when it comes to
SA) state.

Why? Would those same Jews demand that no area, no voting district, no
precinct in the US be less than 51% white?

The problem, as I understand it, with the areas now in fully
Palestinian hands is that there are no ways to make a living there.
There is no industry. No capital. Nothing. Sure, many impoverished Jews
showed up in Israel during the past 60 years (or more) but they were
sponsored by wealthy Jews from other lands such as Britain and the USA.

What causes radical Muslims? Part of it must be that there is nothing
for them to lose in this world so they become easy to convince that
their payoff is in taking out a few Jews rather than living a welfare
life in some camp forever. Look at these guys as being Mexicans peering
across the border to a prosperous land they wish to enter & work in.
They can't because they are caged up, wall up and patrolled with
machine guns.

I am NOT defending random tossing of missiles into Israel by these
guys. Not even close. I'm only saying that, IMO, US policy isn't
looking at the entire picture.
Part of the entire picture is that Israel has created a secular,
democratic, free society that is very attractive to many if only because
it is so rare in that area. Israel, while not perfect, is a shining
beacon of morality and opportunity and that is the biggest reason
radical Islam wants it destroyed. It is also the biggest reason it is
our duty to help defend it.

Stephen


Whew.. I don't usually agree with you, but your comments (taken with the
appropriately size grains of salt) I mostly agree with.

My editing... the society is mostly secular, but not completely, since it
is the "Jewish State,"

I was watching a program about the best commercials of the year and there
was a commercial from Israel with crazy dancing rabbis saying that HD TV
was so good you'd go to hell for watching it. That qualifies as secular
enough IMO.

Stephen


Now that's funny! Thanks...

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 2 Jan 2009 11:13:37 -0800, "Capt. JG"
said:

it is democratic, and as "free" as you can get, given
that there are things like a compulsary draft

Interesting comment. So a country without an all volunteer military is not
by your lights free.


I guess not. I don't know. Are we a free country? I think it's unclear what
constitutes free... lots of gradations. Is the current Russia a free
country? Is China? Compared to Syria, Israel is a free country. Compared to
Iceland?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Stephen Trapani wrote:


I am NOT defending random tossing of missiles into Israel by these
guys. Not even close. I'm only saying that, IMO, US policy isn't
looking at the entire picture.

Part of the entire picture is that Israel has created a secular,
democratic, free society that is very attractive to many if only because
it is so rare in that area. Israel, while not perfect, is a shining
beacon of morality and opportunity and that is the biggest reason
radical Islam wants it destroyed. It is also the biggest reason it is
our duty to help defend it.


But you see, Stephen, that's not accurate aside from the Israeli press
releases. South Africa created a secular, democratic, free society too -
for whites. Israel has done the same -- for Jews.

Also it is NOT secular. Don't believe me? Well, try for a pork rib
dinner in Tel Aviv and then report back your findings. It's anything but
a secular state. Jews today just aren't nearly as offensive culturally
as many find Arabs, that's all but the secularism just is not there.

Stephen Trapani wrote in newsrt7l.28550
:

It is also the biggest reason it is
our duty to help defend it.

Stephen


Greece is a democracy. The Czech Republic is a democracy. Taiwan is a
democracy. Australia is a democracy, as is New Zealand. Canada is a
democracy. Costa Rica is a democracy. Brazil is a democracy, too.

Is it "our duty" to defend them all, or just Israel?

As far as I know, we don't send billions of dollars on top of the table and
more billions of dollars in military aid under the table to Costa Rica or
New Zealand or Greece.

Why not?

Answer - AIPAC infiltration of the US government at the very highest
levels.....now topped by one Rahm Emanuel sitting at the right hand of the
President of the United States....a dual citizen of the State of Israel and
former Israeli soldier.

Which flag do you think he salutes FIRST? Why are FOREIGN NATIONALS in the
highest level of the US Government in very sensitive, classified positions?

It stinks.....

Larry wrote:
Stephen Trapani wrote in newsrt7l.28550
:

It is also the biggest reason it is
our duty to help defend it.

Stephen


Greece is a democracy. The Czech Republic is a democracy. Taiwan is a
democracy. Australia is a democracy, as is New Zealand. Canada is a
democracy. Costa Rica is a democracy. Brazil is a democracy, too.

Is it "our duty" to defend them all, or just Israel?

All of them, of course, if they need it.

As far as I know, we don't send billions of dollars on top of the table and
more billions of dollars in military aid under the table to Costa Rica or
New Zealand or Greece.

Why not?

Because they are not beset by terrorists on all sides who are trying to
"wipe them from the face of the earth?" Except for maybe Taiwan, and we
do support them, proportionate to their threat.

Answer - AIPAC infiltration of the US government at the very highest
levels.....now topped by one Rahm Emanuel sitting at the right hand of the
President of the United States....a dual citizen of the State of Israel and
former Israeli soldier.

Which flag do you think he salutes FIRST? Why are FOREIGN NATIONALS in the
highest level of the US Government in very sensitive, classified positions?

What if there actually is no boogieman? Can you even imagine that
anymore Larry?

Stephen

"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message
...
Larry wrote:
Stephen Trapani wrote in newsrt7l.28550
:

It is also the biggest reason it is our duty to help defend it.

Stephen


Greece is a democracy. The Czech Republic is a democracy. Taiwan is a
democracy. Australia is a democracy, as is New Zealand. Canada is a
democracy. Costa Rica is a democracy. Brazil is a democracy, too.

Is it "our duty" to defend them all, or just Israel?

All of them, of course, if they need it.

As far as I know, we don't send billions of dollars on top of the table
and more billions of dollars in military aid under the table to Costa
Rica or New Zealand or Greece.

Why not?

Because they are not beset by terrorists on all sides who are trying to
"wipe them from the face of the earth?" Except for maybe Taiwan, and we do
support them, proportionate to their threat.

Answer - AIPAC infiltration of the US government at the very highest
levels.....now topped by one Rahm Emanuel sitting at the right hand of
the President of the United States....a dual citizen of the State of
Israel and former Israeli soldier.

Which flag do you think he salutes FIRST? Why are FOREIGN NATIONALS in
the highest level of the US Government in very sensitive, classified
positions?

What if there actually is no boogieman? Can you even imagine that anymore
Larry?

Stephen


We only gave $150M to the West Bank and Gaza, double from the previous year.
Guess which country is third behind Israel and Egypt...

Columbia... home of terrorists.

http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/poli...oreign-aid.htm


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com