Seasons greetings from La Paz, Mexico. Nice place to be fixing the
boat, don't you know . Even in these dark times I've been thinking
that there was a problem with my solar array and now that we are in a
town I finally got around to ripping off the suspect panel to inspect
it. It is a Kyocera KC80 and is a laminate of glass, EVA glue and PVF
backing. A small section of backing has pulled away from the glass
causing a fault in the ground line for about 2/3 of the cells. I can
make the panel work by squeezing in just the right place so I'm pretty
sure this is the only problem with the module. I tested the bypass
diodes and connectors and they are good. Now, I just e-mailed kyocera
and don't yet know what their response will be. In the event that I
have to fix the module I can see two ways to go about it. The
delamination is at the edge of the panel. My current "fix" for
testing purposes uses a clamp on the frame to press a couple of nuts
up against the plastic which squeezes the contact closed. I could tap
the fame and make-up a cam to clamp the thing. Another way to go
about it would be to carefully slice open the blistered section of
plastic and attempt to fix the contact and then seal it up with a
bunch of goop. I'm thinking 5200 for the goop. I'm not sure what to
use to join the connections. They are thin foil and already damaged
so I think solder is out. Some kind of conductive room temperature
glue would be ideal. Is there any such thing? Does anyone know the
Spanish for it? Or I might epoxy a bit of silver or copper foil
across the joint... Not quite sure of how that would work in detail,
though...

Any ideas out there?

Thanks!

--Tom.

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 19:41:43 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

Seasons greetings from La Paz, Mexico. ... They are thin foil and already damaged
so I think solder is out. Some kind of conductive room temperature
glue would be ideal. Is there any such thing? Does anyone know the
Spanish for it? Or I might epoxy a bit of silver or copper foil
across the joint... Not quite sure of how that would work in detail,
though...

Any ideas out there?

Thanks!

--Tom.

Solar panels are often made with soldered copper tape busses.
So copper tape and solder would be one way to go.
There is a siver loaded epoxy that can do reasonably well in thin
layers. It's expensive, naturally.

BrianW

These have a 25 year warranty. Contact the manufacturer.

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

wrote in message
...
Seasons greetings from La Paz, Mexico. Nice place to be fixing the
boat, don't you know . Even in these dark times I've been thinking
that there was a problem with my solar array and now that we are in a
town I finally got around to ripping off the suspect panel to inspect
it. It is a Kyocera KC80 and is a laminate of glass, EVA glue and PVF
backing. A small section of backing has pulled away from the glass
causing a fault in the ground line for about 2/3 of the cells. I can
make the panel work by squeezing in just the right place so I'm pretty
sure this is the only problem with the module. I tested the bypass
diodes and connectors and they are good. Now, I just e-mailed kyocera
and don't yet know what their response will be. In the event that I
have to fix the module I can see two ways to go about it. The
delamination is at the edge of the panel. My current "fix" for
testing purposes uses a clamp on the frame to press a couple of nuts
up against the plastic which squeezes the contact closed. I could tap
the fame and make-up a cam to clamp the thing. Another way to go
about it would be to carefully slice open the blistered section of
plastic and attempt to fix the contact and then seal it up with a
bunch of goop. I'm thinking 5200 for the goop. I'm not sure what to
use to join the connections. They are thin foil and already damaged
so I think solder is out. Some kind of conductive room temperature
glue would be ideal. Is there any such thing? Does anyone know the
Spanish for it? Or I might epoxy a bit of silver or copper foil
across the joint... Not quite sure of how that would work in detail,
though...

Any ideas out there?

Thanks!

--Tom.


No ideas, but I'm glad to hear all is well! An uneventful cruise?


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

How old are the panels??

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 19:41:43 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

Seasons greetings from La Paz, Mexico. Nice place to be fixing the
boat, don't you know . Even in these dark times I've been thinking
that there was a problem with my solar array and now that we are in a
town I finally got around to ripping off the suspect panel to inspect
it. It is a Kyocera KC80 and is a laminate of glass, EVA glue and PVF
backing. A small section of backing has pulled away from the glass
causing a fault in the ground line for about 2/3 of the cells. I can
make the panel work by squeezing in just the right place so I'm pretty
sure this is the only problem with the module. I tested the bypass
diodes and connectors and they are good. Now, I just e-mailed kyocera
and don't yet know what their response will be. In the event that I
have to fix the module I can see two ways to go about it. The
delamination is at the edge of the panel. My current "fix" for
testing purposes uses a clamp on the frame to press a couple of nuts
up against the plastic which squeezes the contact closed. I could tap
the fame and make-up a cam to clamp the thing. Another way to go
about it would be to carefully slice open the blistered section of
plastic and attempt to fix the contact and then seal it up with a
bunch of goop. I'm thinking 5200 for the goop. I'm not sure what to
use to join the connections. They are thin foil and already damaged
so I think solder is out. Some kind of conductive room temperature
glue would be ideal. Is there any such thing? Does anyone know the
Spanish for it? Or I might epoxy a bit of silver or copper foil
across the joint... Not quite sure of how that would work in detail,
though...

Any ideas out there?

Thanks!

--Tom.

There is liquid "stuff" for repairing traces on circuit boards. Check
with anyplace that sells electronics service supplies, or even
hobbyist stores like Radio Shack.

On Dec 23, 4:41*am, pirate wrote:
*How old are the panels??

They are just under 9 years old. They are supposed to be warranted
for 20 but there may not be a practical way to get a replacement to me
here in Baja Mexico... I just don't know yet. I have sent Kyocera an
email and attempted a phone call but no joy. It is the holiday season
so there may not be anyone in the office...

--Tom.

On Dec 23, 4:55*am, wrote:
....
There is liquid "stuff" for repairing traces on circuit boards. Check
with anyplace that sells electronics service supplies, or even
hobbyist stores like Radio Shack.

Thanks for that. I'll look around. La Paz is a decent sized town so
there may be something here.

--Tom.

On Dec 22, 9:04*pm, Geoff Schultz wrote:
These have a 25 year warranty. *Contact the manufacturer.

-- Geoffwww.GeoffSchultz.org

I'm trying to. Meanwhile I'm in a sort of remote place and want the
solar so it might be nice to fix the panel, too...

--Tom.

wrote:
On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 19:41:43 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

Seasons greetings from La Paz, Mexico. Nice place to be fixing the
boat, don't you know . Even in these dark times I've been thinking
that there was a problem with my solar array and now that we are in a
town I finally got around to ripping off the suspect panel to inspect
it. It is a Kyocera KC80 and is a laminate of glass, EVA glue and PVF
backing. A small section of backing has pulled away from the glass
causing a fault in the ground line for about 2/3 of the cells. I can
make the panel work by squeezing in just the right place so I'm pretty
sure this is the only problem with the module. I tested the bypass
diodes and connectors and they are good. Now, I just e-mailed kyocera
and don't yet know what their response will be. In the event that I
have to fix the module I can see two ways to go about it. The
delamination is at the edge of the panel. My current "fix" for
testing purposes uses a clamp on the frame to press a couple of nuts
up against the plastic which squeezes the contact closed. I could tap
the fame and make-up a cam to clamp the thing. Another way to go
about it would be to carefully slice open the blistered section of
plastic and attempt to fix the contact and then seal it up with a
bunch of goop. I'm thinking 5200 for the goop. I'm not sure what to
use to join the connections. They are thin foil and already damaged
so I think solder is out. Some kind of conductive room temperature
glue would be ideal. Is there any such thing? Does anyone know the
Spanish for it? Or I might epoxy a bit of silver or copper foil
across the joint... Not quite sure of how that would work in detail,
though...

Any ideas out there?

Thanks!

--Tom.

There is liquid "stuff" for repairing traces on circuit boards. Check
with anyplace that sells electronics service supplies, or even
hobbyist stores like Radio Shack.

And most of it cant handle a reasonable current. If you can gain
access, it can probably be soldered, though a very low temperature
solder e.g. indium alloy might be a good idea. If you don't have the
skills to do that bit find someone who does. Ebay item 320327080917
might be worth getting. With a little copper foil to patch the break,
and some 150 deg C melting point solder you should be good to go.

Alternatively there *is* car window heater repair paint that can take
the current. Gluing anything across the crack wont work unless the glue
is very highly conductive.

I'd be concerned about corrosion from the 5200. I'm not sure what it
liberates as it cures, but if it etches the foil at all you are screwed.
Also its going to be a bitch to apply bubble free and without stressing
the damaged area and repair. Personally, I'd clean, lightly rough up
and degrease the backing, before cutting it to do the repair and apply
some variety of spray or brush on electrical lacquer afterwards. When
its all dry and the repair is protected, you can stick down any edges of
backing and make good with a sheet of suitable plastic or similar (maybe
a piece of inflatable patch material?) and whatever sealant seems most
appropriate. Alternatively just flood the area with epoxy and when cured
goop some sealent over it for resilient protection.

I *DO* hope Kyocera decide to make it right as their claimed 20 year
warranty has weasel worded exclusion clauses like (C.2)"h) defects
and/or failures caused by use on a mobile unit including, but not
limited to, vehicles, vessels, etc.;"

source: http://www.kyocerasolar.com/pdf/specsheets/kc_warranty.pdf
(although as an older panel your warranty terms may be different)

It would be nice if that's just for the lawyers and they have a policy
of going beyond their strict warranty obligations.

Incidentally if you search http://www.kyocerasolar.com , that panel is
discontinued though its data sheet is still up -
Kyocera KC series solar panel KC80 :
http://www.kyocerasolar.com/pdf/specsheets/kc80.pdf

They only achieved UL approval for the KC range in December 2003 -
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/partner/story?id=10114&cid=1786
so the panels cant be *that* old. Tom, how old are they, you didn't say?

The replacement would probably be the KC85T -
Kyocera KC series solar panel KC85T
http://www.kyocerasolar.com/pdf/specsheets/KC85T.pdf

Tom, do post some links to pictures of the problem here. I assume that
since you are asking Kyocera for support you have already excluded
self-inflicted mounting damage etc. If they don't want to replace the
defective panel, do ask them about the best way to repair it and ask
them for their comments on the advice you've already had in this thread.

Do follow-up, I hope you will be able to report positively, but a lot of
owners considering installing solar panels on a yacht will be watching
this, so tell us either way.

--
Ian.
"Isn't Google Wonderfull?" - NOT! Search for something and all recent
USENET postings seem to come top of the list :-(