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#11
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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solar panel delam issue
On Dec 22, 9:00*pm, Brian Whatcott wrote:
.... Solar panels are often made with soldered copper tape busses. So copper tape and solder would be one way to go. There is a siver loaded epoxy that can do reasonably well in thin layers. It's expensive, naturally. BrianW Right. The tapes on these panels are either well "tinned" or silver. I presume the former. From the lens side I can't see any solder but that doesn't really mean anything. If the foil is tinned maybe just touching it with an iron would make a join... --Tom. |
#12
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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solar panel delam issue
On Dec 22, 11:27*pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
wrote in message .... No ideas, but I'm glad to hear all is well! An uneventful cruise? It's been a nice run so far. Had some run ins with kelp and an attack of dysentery but also had some lovely spinnaker runs and a pile of fish... On the balance I think that works out in my favor! Cheers, --Tom. |
#13
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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solar panel delam issue
On Dec 23, 7:20*am, IanM wrote:
... *If you can gain access, it can probably be soldered, though a very low temperature solder e.g. indium alloy might be a good idea. *If you don't have the skills to do that bit find someone who does. *Ebay item *320327080917 might be worth getting. With a little copper foil to patch the break, and some 150 deg C melting point solder you should be good to go. Alternatively there *is* car window heater repair paint that can take the current. *Gluing anything across the crack wont work unless the glue is very highly conductive. I'd be concerned about corrosion from the 5200. *I'm not sure what it liberates as it cures, but if it etches the foil at all you are screwed. Also its going to be a bitch to apply bubble free and without stressing the damaged area and repair. *Personally, I'd clean, lightly rough up and degrease the backing, before cutting it to do the repair and apply some variety of spray or brush on electrical lacquer afterwards. When its all dry and the repair is protected, you can stick down any edges of backing and make good with a sheet of suitable plastic or similar (maybe a piece of inflatable patch material?) and whatever sealant seems most appropriate. Alternatively just flood the area with epoxy and when cured goop some sealent over it for resilient protection. Thanks for all of that. Lots to think about. There isn't a crack as such. The connection is a bit of foil coming from one of the sections of the panel to the negative bus. As the backing has bubbled off it seems that the over/under connection between them has separated. Compressing the join makes the connection again, though I don't know if it is a good one... I *DO* hope Kyocera decide to make it right as their claimed 20 year warranty has weasel worded exclusion clauses like (C.2)"h) defects and/or failures caused by use on a mobile unit including, but not limited to, vehicles, vessels, etc.;" Yes, I hope so, too. It's probably not a good week to be trying to get help so I'm assuming the lack of response so far is because of the holiday. I think I'm looking at a manufacturing defect. The panel worked for years and it doesn't look like any moisture has gotten in there or anything -- the foil is bright and lovely looking. The plastic has just bubbled up a bit and the join is faulty. I trust they will stand behind the panel. But, I'm a cruiser and I want to move around so the logistics may be hard even if they make a good faith effort. Hard to tell until I get somebody to respond anyway... .... so the panels cant be *that* old. *Tom, how old are they, you didn't say? I bought them in 2000 when I was building the boat. The replacement would probably be the KC85T - Kyocera KC series solar panel KC85T http://www.kyocerasolar.com/pdf/specsheets/KC85T.pdf Tom, do post some links to pictures of the problem here. *I assume that since you are asking Kyocera for support you have already excluded self-inflicted mounting damage etc. *If they don't want to replace the defective panel, do ask them about the best way to repair it and ask them for their comments on the advice you've already had in this thread. Not sure how easy it would be to photograph the fault as it is just a slight bubble in the white plastic backing. I'll take a picture and if it comes out I'll put it on the web somewhere... Cheers, --Tom. |
#14
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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solar panel delam issue
On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 22:00:05 -0600, Brian Whatcott
wrote: On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 19:41:43 -0800 (PST), " wrote: Seasons greetings from La Paz, Mexico. ... They are thin foil and already damaged so I think solder is out. Some kind of conductive room temperature glue would be ideal. Is there any such thing? Does anyone know the Spanish for it? Or I might epoxy a bit of silver or copper foil across the joint... Not quite sure of how that would work in detail, though... Any ideas out there? Thanks! --Tom. Solar panels are often made with soldered copper tape busses. So copper tape and solder would be one way to go. There is a siver loaded epoxy that can do reasonably well in thin layers. It's expensive, naturally. BrianW As for solder, one of the lead free formulations, 95 tin, 5 silver, is twice as strong as the old 50/ 50 lead/tin and melts at 375. Some have said there is a 25 year warranty, although how you can trust a company to exist that long is beyond me Casady |
#15
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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solar panel delam issue
wrote in message ... Seasons greetings from La Paz, Mexico. Nice place to be fixing the boat, don't you know . Even in these dark times I've been thinking that there was a problem with my solar array and now that we are in a town I finally got around to ripping off the suspect panel to inspect it. It is a Kyocera KC80 and is a laminate of glass, EVA glue and PVF backing. A small section of backing has pulled away from the glass causing a fault in the ground line for about 2/3 of the cells. I can make the panel work by squeezing in just the right place so I'm pretty sure this is the only problem with the module. I tested the bypass diodes and connectors and they are good. Now, I just e-mailed kyocera and don't yet know what their response will be. In the event that I have to fix the module I can see two ways to go about it. The delamination is at the edge of the panel. My current "fix" for testing purposes uses a clamp on the frame to press a couple of nuts up against the plastic which squeezes the contact closed. I could tap the fame and make-up a cam to clamp the thing. Another way to go about it would be to carefully slice open the blistered section of plastic and attempt to fix the contact and then seal it up with a bunch of goop. I'm thinking 5200 for the goop. I'm not sure what to use to join the connections. They are thin foil and already damaged so I think solder is out. Some kind of conductive room temperature glue would be ideal. Is there any such thing? Does anyone know the Spanish for it? Or I might epoxy a bit of silver or copper foil across the joint... Not quite sure of how that would work in detail, though... Any ideas out there? Thanks! --Tom. http://www.affordable-solar.com/kyoc...olar.panel.htm Discontinued! There's a reason why it was discontinued. It's a piece of crap. Next time try buying quality photovoltaics. Evergreen has the best, most cost effective, and environmentally responsible during manufacturing process photovoltaics suitable for marine use made today. Toss your broken panel and get a new one. Life's too short to spend your time working on Jap junk. Wilbur Hubbard |
#16
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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solar panel delam issue
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#17
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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solar panel delam issue
On Dec 23, 12:00*pm, Larry wrote:
.... Solar panels have a long warranty period.....unless some idiot starts using his drill to "fix" them, of course..... Just swap it! You are a wise man, it seems. Just got a note from the warranty dept. They offered to swap all the panels I bought, not just the defective one! We'll see what really happens and how the international logistics work out, but that's a pretty nice opening offer. They are closed for the holidays so it will takes some weeks at the least.. Bummer about that. Too, ripping the rack out and then re-glassing it is a major so I don't really want to replace the whole array. --Tom. |
#18
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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solar panel delam issue
They should be able to ship them to La Paz. You might want to talk to the
people in the Moorings office. They're pretty good with local info like this. wrote in message ... On Dec 23, 4:41 am, pirate wrote: How old are the panels?? They are just under 9 years old. They are supposed to be warranted for 20 but there may not be a practical way to get a replacement to me here in Baja Mexico... I just don't know yet. I have sent Kyocera an email and attempted a phone call but no joy. It is the holiday season so there may not be anyone in the office... --Tom. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#19
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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solar panel delam issue
You were running on a run. LOL
Sounds like a haiku in the making. wrote in message ... On Dec 22, 11:27 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote: wrote in message .... No ideas, but I'm glad to hear all is well! An uneventful cruise? It's been a nice run so far. Had some run ins with kelp and an attack of dysentery but also had some lovely spinnaker runs and a pile of fish... On the balance I think that works out in my favor! Cheers, --Tom. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#20
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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solar panel delam issue
" wrote in
: On Dec 23, 12:00*pm, Larry wrote: ... Solar panels have a long warranty period.....unless some idiot starts usi ng his drill to "fix" them, of course..... Just swap it! You are a wise man, it seems. Just got a note from the warranty dept. They offered to swap all the panels I bought, not just the defective one! We'll see what really happens and how the international logistics work out, but that's a pretty nice opening offer. They are closed for the holidays so it will takes some weeks at the least.. Bummer about that. Too, ripping the rack out and then re-glassing it is a major so I don't really want to replace the whole array. --Tom. Swap out them all. They probably had a bad run of a few thousand panels that are all coming apart and trying to save face. Congratulations! Don't just replace the one....the warranty dept knows the others will come apart soon enough and are offering you all new ones. Glassing them is of no consequence. CHANGE THEM ALL! Now you have the chance of putting the new ones back where you can service them....not glassing them into some unserviceable place. Do a better job of planning on replacing them, this time. |
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