On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 06:13:11 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Dec 23, 4:41*am, pirate wrote:
*How old are the panels??

They are just under 9 years old. They are supposed to be warranted
for 20 but there may not be a practical way to get a replacement to me
here in Baja Mexico... I just don't know yet. I have sent Kyocera an
email and attempted a phone call but no joy. It is the holiday season
so there may not be anyone in the office...

--Tom.

It may be possible to solder new connections to the cells. I have
never done this but there was a guy here that "specialized" in finding
scrapped panels and repairing them. He told me that you could solder
to the traces between cells.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Dec 22, 11:27*pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
wrote in message
....
No ideas, but I'm glad to hear all is well! An uneventful cruise?

It's been a nice run so far. Had some run ins with kelp and an attack
of dysentery but also had some lovely spinnaker runs and a pile of
fish... On the balance I think that works out in my favor!

Cheers,

--Tom.

You were running on a run. LOL

Sounds like a haiku in the making.

wrote in message
...
On Dec 22, 11:27 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
wrote in message
....
No ideas, but I'm glad to hear all is well! An uneventful cruise?

It's been a nice run so far. Had some run ins with kelp and an attack
of dysentery but also had some lovely spinnaker runs and a pile of
fish... On the balance I think that works out in my favor!

Cheers,

--Tom.



--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 19:41:43 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

Seasons greetings from La Paz, Mexico. Nice place to be fixing the
boat, don't you know . Even in these dark times I've been thinking
that there was a problem with my solar array and now that we are in a
town I finally got around to ripping off the suspect panel to inspect
it. It is a Kyocera KC80 and is a laminate of glass, EVA glue and PVF
backing. A small section of backing has pulled away from the glass
causing a fault in the ground line for about 2/3 of the cells. I can
make the panel work by squeezing in just the right place so I'm pretty
sure this is the only problem with the module. I tested the bypass
diodes and connectors and they are good. Now, I just e-mailed kyocera
and don't yet know what their response will be. In the event that I
have to fix the module I can see two ways to go about it. The
delamination is at the edge of the panel. My current "fix" for
testing purposes uses a clamp on the frame to press a couple of nuts
up against the plastic which squeezes the contact closed. I could tap
the fame and make-up a cam to clamp the thing. Another way to go
about it would be to carefully slice open the blistered section of
plastic and attempt to fix the contact and then seal it up with a
bunch of goop. I'm thinking 5200 for the goop. I'm not sure what to
use to join the connections. They are thin foil and already damaged
so I think solder is out. Some kind of conductive room temperature
glue would be ideal. Is there any such thing? Does anyone know the
Spanish for it? Or I might epoxy a bit of silver or copper foil
across the joint... Not quite sure of how that would work in detail,
though...

Any ideas out there?

Thanks!

--Tom.

There is liquid "stuff" for repairing traces on circuit boards. Check
with anyplace that sells electronics service supplies, or even
hobbyist stores like Radio Shack.

On Dec 23, 4:55*am, wrote:
....
There is liquid "stuff" for repairing traces on circuit boards. Check
with anyplace that sells electronics service supplies, or even
hobbyist stores like Radio Shack.

Thanks for that. I'll look around. La Paz is a decent sized town so
there may be something here.

--Tom.

wrote:
On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 19:41:43 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

Seasons greetings from La Paz, Mexico. Nice place to be fixing the
boat, don't you know . Even in these dark times I've been thinking
that there was a problem with my solar array and now that we are in a
town I finally got around to ripping off the suspect panel to inspect
it. It is a Kyocera KC80 and is a laminate of glass, EVA glue and PVF
backing. A small section of backing has pulled away from the glass
causing a fault in the ground line for about 2/3 of the cells. I can
make the panel work by squeezing in just the right place so I'm pretty
sure this is the only problem with the module. I tested the bypass
diodes and connectors and they are good. Now, I just e-mailed kyocera
and don't yet know what their response will be. In the event that I
have to fix the module I can see two ways to go about it. The
delamination is at the edge of the panel. My current "fix" for
testing purposes uses a clamp on the frame to press a couple of nuts
up against the plastic which squeezes the contact closed. I could tap
the fame and make-up a cam to clamp the thing. Another way to go
about it would be to carefully slice open the blistered section of
plastic and attempt to fix the contact and then seal it up with a
bunch of goop. I'm thinking 5200 for the goop. I'm not sure what to
use to join the connections. They are thin foil and already damaged
so I think solder is out. Some kind of conductive room temperature
glue would be ideal. Is there any such thing? Does anyone know the
Spanish for it? Or I might epoxy a bit of silver or copper foil
across the joint... Not quite sure of how that would work in detail,
though...

Any ideas out there?

Thanks!

--Tom.

There is liquid "stuff" for repairing traces on circuit boards. Check
with anyplace that sells electronics service supplies, or even
hobbyist stores like Radio Shack.

And most of it cant handle a reasonable current. If you can gain
access, it can probably be soldered, though a very low temperature
solder e.g. indium alloy might be a good idea. If you don't have the
skills to do that bit find someone who does. Ebay item 320327080917
might be worth getting. With a little copper foil to patch the break,
and some 150 deg C melting point solder you should be good to go.

Alternatively there *is* car window heater repair paint that can take
the current. Gluing anything across the crack wont work unless the glue
is very highly conductive.

I'd be concerned about corrosion from the 5200. I'm not sure what it
liberates as it cures, but if it etches the foil at all you are screwed.
Also its going to be a bitch to apply bubble free and without stressing
the damaged area and repair. Personally, I'd clean, lightly rough up
and degrease the backing, before cutting it to do the repair and apply
some variety of spray or brush on electrical lacquer afterwards. When
its all dry and the repair is protected, you can stick down any edges of
backing and make good with a sheet of suitable plastic or similar (maybe
a piece of inflatable patch material?) and whatever sealant seems most
appropriate. Alternatively just flood the area with epoxy and when cured
goop some sealent over it for resilient protection.

I *DO* hope Kyocera decide to make it right as their claimed 20 year
warranty has weasel worded exclusion clauses like (C.2)"h) defects
and/or failures caused by use on a mobile unit including, but not
limited to, vehicles, vessels, etc.;"

source: http://www.kyocerasolar.com/pdf/specsheets/kc_warranty.pdf
(although as an older panel your warranty terms may be different)

It would be nice if that's just for the lawyers and they have a policy
of going beyond their strict warranty obligations.

Incidentally if you search http://www.kyocerasolar.com , that panel is
discontinued though its data sheet is still up -
Kyocera KC series solar panel KC80 :
http://www.kyocerasolar.com/pdf/specsheets/kc80.pdf

They only achieved UL approval for the KC range in December 2003 -
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/partner/story?id=10114&cid=1786
so the panels cant be *that* old. Tom, how old are they, you didn't say?

The replacement would probably be the KC85T -
Kyocera KC series solar panel KC85T
http://www.kyocerasolar.com/pdf/specsheets/KC85T.pdf

Tom, do post some links to pictures of the problem here. I assume that
since you are asking Kyocera for support you have already excluded
self-inflicted mounting damage etc. If they don't want to replace the
defective panel, do ask them about the best way to repair it and ask
them for their comments on the advice you've already had in this thread.

Do follow-up, I hope you will be able to report positively, but a lot of
owners considering installing solar panels on a yacht will be watching
this, so tell us either way.

--
Ian.
"Isn't Google Wonderfull?" - NOT! Search for something and all recent
USENET postings seem to come top of the list :-(

On Dec 23, 7:20*am, IanM wrote:
... *If you can gain
access, it can probably be soldered, though a very low temperature
solder e.g. indium alloy might be a good idea. *If you don't have the
skills to do that bit find someone who does. *Ebay item *320327080917
might be worth getting. With a little copper foil to patch the break,
and some 150 deg C melting point solder you should be good to go.

Alternatively there *is* car window heater repair paint that can take
the current. *Gluing anything across the crack wont work unless the glue
is very highly conductive.

I'd be concerned about corrosion from the 5200. *I'm not sure what it
liberates as it cures, but if it etches the foil at all you are screwed.
Also its going to be a bitch to apply bubble free and without stressing
the damaged area and repair. *Personally, I'd clean, lightly rough up
and degrease the backing, before cutting it to do the repair and apply
some variety of spray or brush on electrical lacquer afterwards. When
its all dry and the repair is protected, you can stick down any edges of
backing and make good with a sheet of suitable plastic or similar (maybe
a piece of inflatable patch material?) and whatever sealant seems most
appropriate. Alternatively just flood the area with epoxy and when cured
goop some sealent over it for resilient protection.

Thanks for all of that. Lots to think about. There isn't a crack as
such. The connection is a bit of foil coming from one of the sections
of the panel to the negative bus. As the backing has bubbled off it
seems that the over/under connection between them has separated.
Compressing the join makes the connection again, though I don't know
if it is a good one...


I *DO* hope Kyocera decide to make it right as their claimed 20 year
warranty has weasel worded exclusion clauses like (C.2)"h) defects
and/or failures caused by use on a mobile unit including, but not
limited to, vehicles, vessels, etc.;"

Yes, I hope so, too. It's probably not a good week to be trying to
get help so I'm assuming the lack of response so far is because of the
holiday. I think I'm looking at a manufacturing defect. The panel
worked for years and it doesn't look like any moisture has gotten in
there or anything -- the foil is bright and lovely looking. The
plastic has just bubbled up a bit and the join is faulty. I trust
they will stand behind the panel. But, I'm a cruiser and I want to
move around so the logistics may be hard even if they make a good
faith effort. Hard to tell until I get somebody to respond anyway...
....
so the panels cant be *that* old. *Tom, how old are they, you didn't say?

I bought them in 2000 when I was building the boat.

The replacement would probably be the KC85T -
Kyocera KC series solar panel KC85T
http://www.kyocerasolar.com/pdf/specsheets/KC85T.pdf

Tom, do post some links to pictures of the problem here. *I assume that
since you are asking Kyocera for support you have already excluded
self-inflicted mounting damage etc. *If they don't want to replace the
defective panel, do ask them about the best way to repair it and ask
them for their comments on the advice you've already had in this thread.

Not sure how easy it would be to photograph the fault as it is just a
slight bubble in the white plastic backing. I'll take a picture and
if it comes out I'll put it on the web somewhere...

Cheers,

--Tom.

wrote in message
...
Seasons greetings from La Paz, Mexico. Nice place to be fixing the
boat, don't you know . Even in these dark times I've been thinking
that there was a problem with my solar array and now that we are in a
town I finally got around to ripping off the suspect panel to inspect
it. It is a Kyocera KC80 and is a laminate of glass, EVA glue and PVF
backing. A small section of backing has pulled away from the glass
causing a fault in the ground line for about 2/3 of the cells. I can
make the panel work by squeezing in just the right place so I'm pretty
sure this is the only problem with the module. I tested the bypass
diodes and connectors and they are good. Now, I just e-mailed kyocera
and don't yet know what their response will be. In the event that I
have to fix the module I can see two ways to go about it. The
delamination is at the edge of the panel. My current "fix" for
testing purposes uses a clamp on the frame to press a couple of nuts
up against the plastic which squeezes the contact closed. I could tap
the fame and make-up a cam to clamp the thing. Another way to go
about it would be to carefully slice open the blistered section of
plastic and attempt to fix the contact and then seal it up with a
bunch of goop. I'm thinking 5200 for the goop. I'm not sure what to
use to join the connections. They are thin foil and already damaged
so I think solder is out. Some kind of conductive room temperature
glue would be ideal. Is there any such thing? Does anyone know the
Spanish for it? Or I might epoxy a bit of silver or copper foil
across the joint... Not quite sure of how that would work in detail,
though...

Any ideas out there?

Thanks!

--Tom.


http://www.affordable-solar.com/kyoc...olar.panel.htm

Discontinued! There's a reason why it was discontinued. It's a piece of
crap. Next time try buying quality photovoltaics. Evergreen has the best,
most cost effective, and environmentally responsible during manufacturing
process photovoltaics suitable for marine use made today.

Toss your broken panel and get a new one. Life's too short to spend your
time working on Jap junk.

Wilbur Hubbard

" wrote in news:ec8f0961-83cc-4a94-
:

Any ideas out there?



Solar panels have a long warranty period.....unless some idiot starts using
his drill to "fix" them, of course.....

Just swap it!

On Dec 23, 12:00*pm, Larry wrote:
....
Solar panels have a long warranty period.....unless some idiot starts using
his drill to "fix" them, of course.....

Just swap it!

You are a wise man, it seems. Just got a note from the warranty
dept. They offered to swap all the panels I bought, not just the
defective one! We'll see what really happens and how the
international logistics work out, but that's a pretty nice opening
offer. They are closed for the holidays so it will takes some weeks
at the least.. Bummer about that. Too, ripping the rack out and then
re-glassing it is a major so I don't really want to replace the whole
array.

--Tom.