"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
Modern cruising catamarans, over 35 feet and used for cruising, have a near
perfect safety record, especially with regard to sinking. You'd be hard
pressed
to find more than a handful of incidents in the last 10 years. To compare
their
record to monohulls is laughable.

compare the Iroquois owner's list to see just how many Iroquiois catamarans
sank of the total number made. The % is not unusual in the context of
catamarans taken "out there".

Iroquois are not "modern cruising cats over 35 feet." The were designed in the
early 1960's and are only 30 feet long, with a 13 foot beam. Many of the early
boats were finished from bare hull by amateurs. While it was a "breakthrough"
boat in its day, they serve now as the example of how not to build a catamaran.
Try again, jaxie.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
BULL****.
Yet another idiot claim from our resident clown.

check it out, yo-yo. catamarans "out there" sink at an unethical rate as
compared to mono's.

Check what out? Show us a site that proves that cruising cats aren't safer
than monohulls. Another worthless claim from the jaxhole.

jeffies, owning a catamaran is a leap in religious faith, and like most
religious bigots, catamaran bigots have the mental capacity of a seven year old
kid. catamarans present huge, and unstable, wind surfaces, have large,
marginally structural surface unable to stand tons of water slamming against
it, unable to sail up wind, enormous engineering problems in trying to keep the
two hulls from twisting the interconnecting structure to broken pencils and are
rather misserably slow when weighted down by cruising necessities.

As a % of boats "out there", catamarans sink at a much higher rate than mono's.
That is why so few catamarans -- as a % of total catamarans -- "go out there".

Catamarans are training wheels, bought by people who feel the need for training
wheels and both the boats and the people who buy them are best off staying
close to shore and anchoring every nite in a well protected anchorage.

now, jeffies, go pray in your Church of Eternal Life/Two Hulls that the God of
Two Hulls might smite the Half-Boat Heathens who might dare to set sail in
winds above 15 knots and waves above 4 feet.

Modern cruising catamarans, over 35 feet and used for cruising, have a
near
perfect safety record, especially with regard to sinking. You'd be hard
pressed
to find more than a handful of incidents in the last 10 years. To compare
their
record to monohulls is laughable.

compare the Iroquois owner's list to see just how many Iroquiois catamarans
sank of the total number made. The % is not unusual in the context of
catamarans taken "out there".

Iroquois are not "modern cruising cats over 35 feet." The were designed in
the
early 1960's and are only 30 feet long, with a 13 foot beam. Many of the
early
boats were finished from bare hull by amateurs. While it was a
"breakthrough"
boat in its day, they serve now as the example of how not to build a
catamaran.
Try again, jaxie.

Poor, poor jaxie. Your post reeks of jealousy.

You still haven't given even a single example of a cruising cat problem.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, owning a catamaran is a leap in religious faith, and like most
religious bigots, catamaran bigots have the mental capacity of a seven year
old
kid. catamarans present huge, and unstable, wind surfaces, have large,
marginally structural surface unable to stand tons of water slamming against
it, unable to sail up wind, enormous engineering problems in trying to keep
the
two hulls from twisting the interconnecting structure to broken pencils and
are
rather misserably slow when weighted down by cruising necessities.

As a % of boats "out there", catamarans sink at a much higher rate than
mono's.
That is why so few catamarans -- as a % of total catamarans -- "go out
there".

Catamarans are training wheels, bought by people who feel the need for
training
wheels and both the boats and the people who buy them are best off staying
close to shore and anchoring every nite in a well protected anchorage.

now, jeffies, go pray in your Church of Eternal Life/Two Hulls that the God of
Two Hulls might smite the Half-Boat Heathens who might dare to set sail in
winds above 15 knots and waves above 4 feet.




Modern cruising catamarans, over 35 feet and used for cruising, have a
near
perfect safety record, especially with regard to sinking. You'd be hard
pressed
to find more than a handful of incidents in the last 10 years. To compare
their
record to monohulls is laughable.

compare the Iroquois owner's list to see just how many Iroquiois catamarans
sank of the total number made. The % is not unusual in the context of
catamarans taken "out there".

Iroquois are not "modern cruising cats over 35 feet." The were designed in
the
early 1960's and are only 30 feet long, with a 13 foot beam. Many of the
early
boats were finished from bare hull by amateurs. While it was a
"breakthrough"
boat in its day, they serve now as the example of how not to build a
catamaran.
Try again, jaxie.

BULL****.
Yet another idiot claim from our resident clown.

check it out, yo-yo. catamarans "out there" sink at an unethical rate as
compared to mono's.

Check what out? Show us a site that proves that cruising cats aren't safer
than monohulls. Another worthless claim from the jaxhole.


http://www.cs-bb.com/forums/CSBB/index.cgi/read/9154

http://www.cs-bb.com/forums/CSBB/index.cgi/read/9182

http://www.cs-bb.com/forums/CSBB/index.cgi/read/9275

Poor, poor jaxie. Your post reeks of jealousy.

You still haven't given even a single example of a cruising cat problem.

jeffies, were you too busy praying at the Church of Eternal Life/Two Hulls to
notice the post with three quick references? Is is your faith so bigot based
you couldn't read words that contradicted your faith?

On Thursday 20 May 2004 12:15 pm in rec.boats.cruising Jeff Morris wrote:

Poor, poor jaxie. Your post reeks of jealousy.

You still haven't given even a single example of a cruising cat problem.

Just plonk the troll into your killfile, he is terminally clueless.
The existance of a few bad small cats is enough to condemn all multihulls
in his tiny mind despite the existance of cats which are unconditionally
stable.

"rhys" wrote in message
...
I'm not sure why you have a problem with "flat sliding doors" since I've
never
heard of a failure of one.

I just find large openings and flat surfaces on small vessels of any
type inappropriate from a windage viewpoint and POTENTIALLY from a
structural viewpoint. I don't like large companionways and tons of
fixed ports in the coachhouse for the same reason. It's not
particularly scientific, but there's a reason submarines and
shuttlecraft don't have screen doors, either. G


Or are you defining "seaworthiness" as something
that "looks proper" as opposed to something that has been proven safe with a
perfect safety record?

Perfect? Stats, please. Plenty of catamarans have gone missing in the
ocean...

Really? I've heard of a couple in the last 20 years ... can you point to any?
This is an odd issue, because people often claim cats flip, sink, or go missing,
but then are never able to provide examples. There are, of course, a few, but
very few compared to monohulls.

we had one kill two sailors in Lake Erie three years ago near
here in a line squall when it flipped and flooded.

Yes, it was a racing boat carrying full sail with spinnaker in the middle of the
night, only one man was on deck at the time. There is certainly no question
that racing cats and tris flip. Of course, racing monos also flip and often
sink.

If a catamaran went
down in the ocean, it would be hard to figure WHAT killed it, but a
large glass door in the cockpit can reasonably be assumed will let in
more following seas IF it fails.

Why? Most catamarams keep a dry cockpit in following seas. And in major storms
the preferred strategy is to lie to a sea anchor.

And engineering tells us everything
fails, eventually. Me, I would rather it was a couple of dropboards
YMMV. Some cats are more conservatively designed in this respect;
others go for the "sunroom effect".

Are you saying a Hunter is a safe boat because it has dropboards?

You could make the hypothetical case that sliding doors might not be safe in an
"ultimate storm" but certainly the majority of boats built have similar issues.
So are you simply saying that most cats are built as coastal cruisers, just like
most monohulls are?


Actually, I consider the door to be a major safety feature since you don't
have
to climb down a ladder to "go below."

Different strokes, I guess. I have plenty of handholds so I
essentially "drop" the four feet or so into the cabin. Racing cats, of
course, look like '50s fighter jets, with "blister" windscreens and a
minimum of deck clutter.

Modern cruising cats don't have a problem
with seas breaking in the cockpit because the sterns are quite bouyant and
lift
easily. In many cats the door is almost amidships, so its rather unlikely to
be
tested even in the worst conditions. And the cockpit drains are usually 3
inch
scuppers that drain directly below.

I know that traditionally, large comfortable cockpits are not considered the
safest for long passages, but they really aren't that bad on a cat.

Well, as I've said, while my experience with them is limited, I've
seen a few that seemed a bit more alert, so to speak, to the possibly
of tons of green water landing in an inconvenient spot.

Yes, there are certainly a number of cats designed specifically with ocean
passages in mind, just as there are a number of monohulls so designed. At the
other end of the spectrum there are cats suited only for coastal waters,
although they have made passages as "stunts," just like you hear of J30's making
passages.

One thing to remember about larger cruising cats is that they make a huge number
of passages. Almost every cat the Caribbean (a major part of the market) gets
there on its own bottom, usually from France or South Africa. Even my PDQ,
clearly a coastal design, has 30 or 40 Bermuda passages (the major charter fleet
uses that route), plus a least one Atlantic crossing.



South Africa builds some
apparently incredibly tough blue-water cats (they'd have to, given the
conditions there), and while I'd personally have to learn to sail 'em,
I'd let the brother buy one.


You'd figure it out real quick.

So I understand. Perhaps I should start with a tri...there are a few
F28s locally that are supposed to do 20 kts.

Now that might take a bit of learning. Last year I was waiting out some weather
in Plymouth, MA when a new F31 came in. He said they had just been doing about
17 knots reaching down from Boston. I was a bit envious until I went below -
but it did make me think about choices and alternatives.


--
-jeff www.sv-loki.com
"The sea was angry that day, my friend. Like an old man trying to send back soup
at the deli."

Did you even look at the links? One talks about the Iroquois, a very early
design from the '60's, only 30 feet, which did have problems. They also did a
considerable number of passages, including IIRC a circumnavigation.

The second provides a number of links to mishaps involving a 19 foot cat, a
"Route du Rumb" racer, Groupama, one of the most extreme racing boats ever made,
a Prindle 18 capsize, a daysailing dive boat in Hawaii, and a fictional movie.

Another tells the rather improbable third-hand tale of two 42 foot cats falling
over in an anchorage from a 40 knot gust. (Most modern cats are designed to
stay upright with full sail sheeting tight, with a 45 knot wind on the beam.)

Pretty lame, jaxie. But its about what we expect from you.





"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
BULL****.
Yet another idiot claim from our resident clown.

check it out, yo-yo. catamarans "out there" sink at an unethical rate as
compared to mono's.

Check what out? Show us a site that proves that cruising cats aren't safer
than monohulls. Another worthless claim from the jaxhole.


http://www.cs-bb.com/forums/CSBB/index.cgi/read/9154

http://www.cs-bb.com/forums/CSBB/index.cgi/read/9182

http://www.cs-bb.com/forums/CSBB/index.cgi/read/9275

yeah, the asshole believes in science, facts, experience, limits of positive
stability, structural integrity and 30 knot winds, too. killfile the *******.

Poor, poor jaxie. Your post reeks of jealousy.

You still haven't given even a single example of a cruising cat problem.

Just plonk the troll into your killfile, he is terminally clueless.
The existance of a few bad small cats is enough to condemn all multihulls
in his tiny mind despite the existance of cats which are unconditionally
stable.