On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 08:25:23 -0800 (PST), wrote:

Frogwatch wrote:


Replace the lifelines too

Now there, I agree. Minor costs & hassle... and BTW lifelines should
be replaced with a low-stretch hi-UV-resistant line, not wire. And
*definitely* not plastic covered wire. That stuff is dangerous for
lifelines, even though it's almost universal on older cruisers & racer-
cruisers.



Fresh Breezes- Doug King

STRONGLY disagree about non-metal lifelines. Far too easy to damage.
You (or someone else) may nick one without ever even realizing it
until you fall against the line and it parts.

If you want something more comfortable than bare stainless wire, there
are split covers that can be removed for inspection, as well as clear
plastic covers.

wrote:
STRONGLY disagree about non-metal lifelines. Far too easy to damage.
You (or someone else) may nick one without ever even realizing it

Only if you're the kind of dumbass that wanders around waving a
samurai sword carelessly.

First of all, the kind of line that one would use does not "nick"
easily.

2nd a "nick" would not cost it much strength and it has plenty to
spare.

3rd that's what every single Cat 1 offshore racer has used for the
past 15 years. I haven't seen bare wire lifelines on anything lately.
The cheapo cruisers are still using plastic covered wire and everybody
else is using Dyneema or a variant.


If you want something more comfortable than bare stainless wire, there
are split covers that can be removed for inspection, as well as clear
plastic covers.

Might be a good option if you are in the "stick or rock" technology
bracket. But it's not approved for Cat 1 or Cat 0 offshore use. Does
that tell you anything?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

On Tue, 2 Dec 2008 15:46:53 -0800 (PST), wrote:

wrote:
STRONGLY disagree about non-metal lifelines. Far too easy to damage.
You (or someone else) may nick one without ever even realizing it

Only if you're the kind of dumbass that wanders around waving a
samurai sword carelessly.


I have no idea if that's what you do, but you are certainly a dumbass.
The rest of your post proves it conclusively.

First of all, the kind of line that one would use does not "nick"
easily.

2nd a "nick" would not cost it much strength and it has plenty to
spare.

3rd that's what every single Cat 1 offshore racer has used for the
past 15 years. I haven't seen bare wire lifelines on anything lately.
The cheapo cruisers are still using plastic covered wire and everybody
else is using Dyneema or a variant.


Sailboat cruising and offshore sailboat racing are entirely different
endeavors with different requirements. You do neither. That may
explain why your opinions are based on magazine articles.



If you want something more comfortable than bare stainless wire, there
are split covers that can be removed for inspection, as well as clear
plastic covers.

Might be a good option if you are in the "stick or rock" technology
bracket. But it's not approved for Cat 1 or Cat 0 offshore use. Does
that tell you anything?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

.... that's what every single Cat 1 offshore racer has used for the
past 15 years. I haven't seen bare wire lifelines on anything lately.
The cheapo cruisers are still using plastic covered wire and everybody
else is using Dyneema or a variant.

wrote:
Sailboat cruising and offshore sailboat racing are entirely different
endeavors with different requirements.

Not with regard to lifelines.

.... You do neither. That may
explain why your opinions are based on magazine articles.


?? I haven't written any magazine articles.... lately.

DSK

wrote:
Sailboat cruising and offshore sailboat racing are entirely different
endeavors with different requirements.

wrote:
Not with regard to lifelines.


wrote:
Really? Are you sure?

Yep.

....Ocean racers have kids and non-sailors aboard
some or all of the time? They haul a dinghy and outboard on deck over
the lifelines?

Generally not.
Of the stuff that cruiser keep on board, and people (of any size), how
much/many do they want to go overboard due to lifeline failure?
Somewhere around zero, according to every one I've ever seen or talked
to.

And racers also have an interest in keeping people & objects on board,
and particularly want to avoid lifeline failure.


... I wasn't aware of just how similar ocean racing was to
cruising. I stand corrected!

You don't have to stand in my presence. Please sit if you like. Smoke
'em if you got 'em.

DSK

wrote:
Smoking is bad for you.

Yes it is.

... I wonder how fast a lit cigarette will damage
or even sever a plastic lifeline?

Depends on what the "plastic" is.
Many kinds of hi-strength line don't melt unless you get the temp much
much higher. It's rather frustrating because they need an old-
fashioned whipped end instead of just neatly melting it.

OTOH a cigarette can burn a hole in a sail in an instant.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

wrote in message
...
wrote:
Smoking is bad for you.

Yes it is.

... I wonder how fast a lit cigarette will damage
or even sever a plastic lifeline?

Depends on what the "plastic" is.
Many kinds of hi-strength line don't melt unless you get the temp much
much higher. It's rather frustrating because they need an old-
fashioned whipped end instead of just neatly melting it.

Yes. some while ago when I first had experience with a kevlar rope I was
surprised that my electric cutting knife made no impression on it at all. I
had to saw it through with a serrated edged knife and even that took some
time.

On Wed, 3 Dec 2008 17:40:02 -0800 (PST), wrote:

wrote:
Smoking is bad for you.

Yes it is.

... I wonder how fast a lit cigarette will damage
or even sever a plastic lifeline?

Depends on what the "plastic" is.
Many kinds of hi-strength line don't melt unless you get the temp much
much higher. It's rather frustrating because they need an old-
fashioned whipped end instead of just neatly melting it.

OTOH a cigarette can burn a hole in a sail in an instant.


Which brings us right back to - Smoking is bad for you!