On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:34:00 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll
wrote:

I dont get electrical surveys done at all, ever. there is not a used
boat on earth that does not need all the electrical ripped out and
replaced.

Fresh water.

Casady

On 2008-11-25 09:01:12 -0500, (Richard
Casady) said:

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:34:00 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll
wrote:

I dont get electrical surveys done at all, ever. there is not a used
boat on earth that does not need all the electrical ripped out and
replaced.

Fresh water.

Even in salt, the electrical wiring, etc can be okay. Old boats may
need more circuits, but that's a different subject. Our wiring is fine
after 35 years (other than a few quick-disconnect connectors) in a
salt/brackish environment and little maintenance.

Now *electronics* is a different story. I'm not sure I've seen a
"mature" boat that didn't need new radios, depth, knotmeter and the
like. I never even tried to power up the VHF Xan came with.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Nov 25, 6:01*am, (Richard Casady)
wrote:
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:34:00 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll

wrote:
I dont get electrical surveys done at all, ever. there is not a used
boat on earth that does not need all the electrical ripped out and
replaced.

Fresh water.

Casady

nope if the boat is used then someone has done some fixing and it
needs a total rewire. its not a corrosion issue its a people issue.

"Two meter troll" wrote in message
...
On Nov 25, 6:01 am, (Richard Casady)
wrote:
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:34:00 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll

wrote:
I dont get electrical surveys done at all, ever. there is not a used
boat on earth that does not need all the electrical ripped out and
replaced.

Fresh water.

Casady

nope if the boat is used then someone has done some fixing and it
needs a total rewire. its not a corrosion issue its a people issue.


I didn't find that to be the case with mine. It was all labelled and nothing
was amis until I messed with it.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Nov 26, 6:28*pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Two meter troll" wrote in ...
On Nov 25, 6:01 am, (Richard Casady)
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:34:00 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll

wrote:
I dont get electrical surveys done at all, ever. there is not a used
boat on earth that does not need all the electrical ripped out and
replaced.

Fresh water.

Casady
nope if the boat is used then someone has done some fixing and it
needs a total rewire. its not a corrosion issue its a people issue.

I didn't find that to be the case with mine. It was all labelled and nothing
was amis until I messed with it.

--
"j" ganz

hence

I dont usually have to much trouble but after the R/V Playboy i dont
take any chances with the electrical systems on used boats.
it took months to find the wire that was the problem the boxes and all
looked great all the connections where tight it all looked good but it
kept shorting out at randome times mostly in bad weather but at times
with a three or four foot chop. and no real swell. so i figured its
some wire in the bilge went looked cleaned it painted it white no wire
i could see.
yaddda yaddda rip out stuff finally after the whole thing goes gunny
bags in 10s with a 25 foot swell and a screaming half snow gale and
rip the entire system out.
well whatta ya know?
some time in its past someone thought it would be good to put in a
bilge alarm so they did a fantastic job of it drilling down the length
of a bulkhead stud then grooving the back side of a frame and running
the wires hidden with putty and paint all the way down to the lowest
part of the bilge. where someone else decided it didnt need a bilge
alarm and couldnt get the wire out so they just cut it off flush in
that nice dry bilge. the boat gets a bit older and she tends to get a
bit weepy from time to time that dry bilge gets a couple gallons of
water in it and shorts things out.
you would figure that this circut would be fused.
since its an alarm its wired directly into the main buss and you dont
have time to check it when your bridge goes dead you check it when you
are safe at the dock by which time the wires are all dry and the thing
works again.

I dont get electrical surveys done at all, ever. there is not a used
boat on earth that does not need all the electrical ripped out and
replaced.


Sure, there's lots of them. Of course, there's usually something at
least slightly amiss but if you have ZERO TOLERANCE for stuff that
doesn't always work perfectly, then sailing is not for you (unless you
are a true masochist).


Two meter troll wrote:
some time in its past someone thought it would be good to put in a
bilge alarm so they did a fantastic job of it drilling down the length
of a bulkhead stud then grooving the back side of a frame and running
the wires hidden with putty and paint all the way down to the lowest
part of the bilge.

That's lovely, not only a total **** job by DPO but he apparently took
pains to hide his handiwork. I love to buy boats from people who have
no clue that structural elements are there for a reason. In fact I
have a few acquaintances who indulge in this sort of dumbassery, but I
don't sail with them unless the trip is short & the weather is nice.

... where someone else decided it didnt need a bilge
alarm and couldnt get the wire out so they just cut it off flush in
that nice dry bilge. the boat gets a bit older and she tends to get a
bit weepy from time to time that dry bilge gets a couple gallons of
water in it and shorts things out.
you would figure that this circut would be fused.
*since its an alarm its wired directly into the main buss and you dont
have time to check it when your bridge goes dead you check it when you
are safe at the dock by which time the wires are all dry and the thing
works again.

you must have very fast-drying wiring.

Anyway ripping out all wiring and starting over from scratch is a lot
of work. If I planned to do that, I'd probably want the boat to be
free of for the seller to pay me to take it. There's lots & lots of
boats out there that aren't so bad.... maybe if you did a careful
survey of the electrical system first, you'd get a fair warning in
time to go look elsewhere....

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

On Nov 29, 8:19*am, wrote:
I dont get electrical surveys done at all, ever. there is not a used
boat on earth that does not need all the electrical ripped out and
replaced.

Sure, there's lots of them. Of course, there's usually something at
least slightly amiss but if you have ZERO TOLERANCE for stuff that
doesn't always work perfectly, then sailing is not for you (unless you
are a true masochist).

Two meter troll wrote:
some time in its past someone thought it would be good to put in a
bilge alarm so they did a fantastic job of it drilling down the length
of a bulkhead stud then grooving the back side of a frame and running
the wires hidden with putty and paint all the way down to the lowest
part of the bilge.

That's lovely, not only a total **** job by DPO but he apparently took
pains to hide his handiwork. I love to buy boats from people who have
no clue that structural elements are there for a reason. In fact I
have a few acquaintances who indulge in this sort of dumbassery, but I
don't sail with them unless the trip is short & the weather is nice.

... where someone else decided it didnt need a bilge
alarm and couldnt get the wire out so they just cut it off flush in
that nice dry bilge. the boat gets a bit older and she tends to get a
bit weepy from time to time that dry bilge gets a couple gallons of
water in it and shorts things out.
you would figure that this circut would be fused.
*since its an alarm its wired directly into the main buss and you dont
have time to check it when your bridge goes dead you check it when you
are safe at the dock by which time the wires are all dry and the thing
works again.

you must have very fast-drying wiring.

Anyway ripping out all wiring and starting over from scratch is a lot
of work. If I planned to do that, I'd probably want the boat to be
free of for the seller to pay me to take it. There's lots & lots of
boats out there that aren't so bad.... maybe if you did a careful
survey of the electrical system first, you'd get a fair warning in
time to go look elsewhere.... *

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

na i liked the boat she was a gem just had a few quirks to work out. I
have "zero tolerance" in some areas. one of which is electrons, the
other of which is Hydraulics. i rip them out a replace them with
systems i know are tight and will work the way they ought. i spend way
to much time offshore to want the worry of those two systems going
gunnysacks. rigging i can make, sails i can sew, engines i can rebuild
normal plumbing i can fix but if it sparks or has high pressure leaks
i want it good before i cast off.

On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 16:35:11 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll
wrote:

On Nov 29, 8:19*am, wrote:
I dont get electrical surveys done at all, ever. there is not a used
boat on earth that does not need all the electrical ripped out and
replaced.

Sure, there's lots of them. Of course, there's usually something at
least slightly amiss but if you have ZERO TOLERANCE for stuff that
doesn't always work perfectly, then sailing is not for you (unless you
are a true masochist).

Two meter troll wrote:
some time in its past someone thought it would be good to put in a
bilge alarm so they did a fantastic job of it drilling down the length
of a bulkhead stud then grooving the back side of a frame and running
the wires hidden with putty and paint all the way down to the lowest
part of the bilge.

That's lovely, not only a total **** job by DPO but he apparently took
pains to hide his handiwork. I love to buy boats from people who have
no clue that structural elements are there for a reason. In fact I
have a few acquaintances who indulge in this sort of dumbassery, but I
don't sail with them unless the trip is short & the weather is nice.

... where someone else decided it didnt need a bilge
alarm and couldnt get the wire out so they just cut it off flush in
that nice dry bilge. the boat gets a bit older and she tends to get a
bit weepy from time to time that dry bilge gets a couple gallons of
water in it and shorts things out.
you would figure that this circut would be fused.
*since its an alarm its wired directly into the main buss and you dont
have time to check it when your bridge goes dead you check it when you
are safe at the dock by which time the wires are all dry and the thing
works again.

you must have very fast-drying wiring.

Anyway ripping out all wiring and starting over from scratch is a lot
of work. If I planned to do that, I'd probably want the boat to be
free of for the seller to pay me to take it. There's lots & lots of
boats out there that aren't so bad.... maybe if you did a careful
survey of the electrical system first, you'd get a fair warning in
time to go look elsewhere.... *

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

na i liked the boat she was a gem just had a few quirks to work out. I
have "zero tolerance" in some areas. one of which is electrons, the
other of which is Hydraulics. i rip them out a replace them with
systems i know are tight and will work the way they ought. i spend way
to much time offshore to want the worry of those two systems going
gunnysacks. rigging i can make, sails i can sew, engines i can rebuild
normal plumbing i can fix but if it sparks or has high pressure leaks
i want it good before i cast off.

My perhaps irrelevant experience with farm and construction hydraulics
is that most leaks can be fixed with a slight turn of a wrench, the
notable exception is leaks around the piston rod, but one shouldn't
take dubious stuff offshore. Or anywhere. As for wiring, in fifty
years, nobody ever got any of the Turbocraft's wiring wet. Or screwed
with it. So what would I know about problems with wiring ? Keeping the
wires up to snuff is easy with a trouble free fresh water, lake type,
runabout.and I count my blessings. No trouble whatever for fifty
years. Working on wiring in a moving boat could be a nightmare. My
hair is too long to crawl into tight places with a torch. My
experience with working on boats is on the beach or the hoist. or the
trailer. All rock steady. My workbench has a 4 inch thick oak top and
weighs hundreds. German. Steady is good.

Casady