On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:34:00 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll
wrote:

I dont get electrical surveys done at all, ever. there is not a used
boat on earth that does not need all the electrical ripped out and
replaced.

Fresh water.

Casady

"Janet O'Leary" yeahright wrote:
,, are you familiar with short selling? *Stock market short selling?

Yes.
It has absolutely nothing to do with buying-selling boats.


... *By asking the seller to shoulder half of the survey
expense, the seller is forced to reveal the flaw before the survey .. and
this helps reach the "true" price of the boat.


That's just plain stupid.
There is no broad based market for any particular boat, thus no
'market price.' The boat is worth what a given buyer will pay for it,
and it costs what the seller will take for it.

First of all, there is certainly no guarantee that a surveyor will
find any particular flaw the seller may have in mind.
2nd there are almost certainly flaws the seller doesn't know about
3rd there is a tremendously wide range of possible 'fixes' for any
given boat problem, and thus no definable cost to repair... until the
specifics of the individual's preferences are applied AND a specific
repair put out for bid.


This seems reasonable to me ..

That's because you know nothing at all about the process.

OTOH there's no reason why you can't try to buy a boat your way. Lots
& lots & lots of sellers out there. And you can always convince
yourself you got a "deal"

DSK

In this market, you'll have that boat until it gets sold as part of
your estate.

Dave wrote:
Nonsense. There are people who don't have the psychological profile of the
merchant in a Middle Eastern bazaar.

??
Seems a bit of a revealing comment... have you ever been in a Middle
Eastern bazaar? I have.

Islam is very non-materialistic. Middle Eastern merchants are very
open & honest. since they don't consider the prospect of gouging a few
extra coins from your pocket as worth endangering their soul.
Christianity proposes this same philosophy but far fewer Christians
put it into practice.

DSK

's just plain stupid.
There is no broad based market for any particular boat, thus no
'market price.' The boat is worth what a given buyer will pay for it,
and it costs what the seller will take for it.

First of all, there is certainly no guarantee that a surveyor will
find any particular flaw the seller may have in mind.
2nd there are almost certainly flaws the seller doesn't know about
3rd there is a tremendously wide range of possible 'fixes' for any
given boat problem, and thus no definable cost to repair... until the
specifics of the individual's preferences are applied AND a specific
repair put out for bid.


This seems reasonable to me ..

That's because you know nothing at all about the process.

OTOH there's no reason why you can't try to buy a boat your way. Lots
& lots & lots of sellers out there. And you can always convince
yourself you got a "deal"

DSK
=============

Its not often I get called stupid ... but you must be an expert ..

Do you go around and tell people you don't know they are stupid
all the time, or is this just an internet thing?

The process, as you call it,, can be summed up in one word.. MONEY

Show the money, and the process usually is quick to arrive.

I just bought a couple more book at Barnes and Noble. They explain the
purchase process very completely. I've also met an experienced yachtman
who has owned over 10 cruising sailboats or different sizes. He is very
helpful.

Rather than tell me I'm stupid .. how about you tell all of us what your
experience is.
How many boats have you bought and sold? Where do you sail? What boat do
you own now? When was the last time you bought a boat? Did you have a
survey done?
What is the name of your boat? Where is she moored/docked?

In other words... put up or shut up.

Ms Novice.

Islam is very non-materialistic. Middle Eastern merchants are very
open & honest. since they don't consider the prospect of gouging a few
extra coins from your pocket as worth endangering their soul.
Christianity proposes this same philosophy but far fewer Christians
put it into practice.

Dave wrote:
Interesting observations, Doug. *I find haggling distasteful, but not
immoral.

It's not about haggling, which is a great tradition in most places
other than the US. It's about lying for profit.


.... Apparently you view it as having a moral dimension.

It's not about *my* feelings, Dave.... you made a statement that
conveyed your impression that Middle Eastern bazaar merchants...
possibly Middle Easterners in general.... were greedy & dishonest.
This is not the case. They might be happy to kill you but they would
not rob you.


.... So can I
morally price my boat at any more than I expect to ultimately sell it for?
If so, how much more before I'm "gouging"? *And is that the same premium I
can ask before I endanger my soul? 10%? 30%? 50%? 100%?

Morality is not my department. Just telling you the facts as I have
observed them.

Setting a price on your boat is not the same as accepting X amount of
money for it. Seems unlikely to me, in this current market
environment, that you'll be able to endanger your soul over it

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Dave wrote:
And so you just paid whatever they were asking at the souk, right?

Surely you jest.

Nope. And don't call me Shirley!

As a matter of fact, on several occasions when buying gold jewelry in
the souk, I not only brought my own newspaper with the day's gold
price quotes but also my own calibration weights. Didn't raise any
tempers at all, as you might expect... instead several merchants
requested that I come in and check their scales... offered me coffee
(which one should be wary of) as a gesture of approval.

In short, I was impressed with their honesty.... that said, I would
not have wanted to trust my life to their generosity... at least not
towards an infidel....

DSK

"Janet O'Leary" wrote:
Rather than tell me I'm stupid .. how about you tell all of us what your
experience is.

Enough that I don't really care what you think.

How many boats have you bought and sold?

A lot... less than a hundred, more than a dozen.

.... * When was the last time you bought a boat?

March 2008

* Did you have a survey done?

On this particular one, no. On the one before, yes. And on several
before that, going to about 1970-something


In other words... put up or shut up.


Really? Or else you'll.... what?

You forgot to ask animal, vegetable, or mineral. The methodical
approach is best in these things.

DSK

wrote in message
...

It's not about *my* feelings, Dave.... you made a statement that
conveyed your impression that Middle Eastern bazaar merchants...
possibly Middle Easterners in general.... were greedy & dishonest.
This is not the case. They might be happy to kill you but they would
not rob you.


Morality is not my department. Just telling you the facts as I have
observed them.

Setting a price on your boat is not the same as accepting X amount of
money for it. Seems unlikely to me, in this current market
environment, that you'll be able to endanger your soul over it

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

One must keep in mind that Capitalism and morality are strangers to each
other.

KLC Lewis wrote:
wrote in message
...

It's not about *my* feelings, Dave.... you made a statement that
conveyed your impression that Middle Eastern bazaar merchants...
possibly Middle Easterners in general.... were greedy & dishonest.
This is not the case. They might be happy to kill you but they would
not rob you.


Morality is not my department. Just telling you the facts as I have
observed them.

Setting a price on your boat is not the same as accepting X amount of
money for it. Seems unlikely to me, in this current market
environment, that you'll be able to endanger your soul over it

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

One must keep in mind that Capitalism and morality are strangers to each
other.

Strangers??? Clearly not. Now, enemies.... :-)

Keith Hughes

One must keep in mind that Capitalism and morality are strangers to each
other.

Dave wrote:
Nonsense.

Agreed. Capitalism depends on strong morals, especially in the area of
contracts

DSK