On Mar 21, 9:19 am, wrote:
Hi,

I have a series of questions that could possibly be served by a chat
with a decent Yacht surveyor but I would like some real life feedback
before starting to engage professionals. Consider me to be
researching.

To set the picture I am based in the UK & I have a hankering for a
wooden Classic, say a 30 to 35 foot yacht for my girlfriend & I to
enjoy for weekend cruising and channel hopping. Old fibre glass yachts
in the same price ranges that friends have or have had don't really
appeal. I am not averse to getting my hands dirty having gutted &
refitted my house myself and I have friends who are carpenters and am
reasonably capable with wood myself.

However, I am not experienced in steaming or fixing frames and more
intricate pieces of wood work I would expect to find during a restore
and have never worked on a wooden yacht.

So, if I were to purchase a wooden yacht of around 30 - 35 foot range
for an initial outlay of say £10 - 20k what kind of pitfalls can I
expect? Please be assured a survey would be undertaken for assesement.

o Can anyone provide an example of costs refitting decks to a similar
wooden vessel? Self-fitted marine-ply + teak or alt. vs a yard fitting
cost? Of course I'm assuming deck supports and knee's to be good.

o Can anyone provide an indication of costs to strip, recaulk and
prime/paint the exterior? Time is a factor here, is it even vaguely
sensible to consider machine use (ie: sandblasting may be an damaging
sacriledge)

o Any rough cost descriptions for replacement of a 15 or 20hp engine?
Assuming a yard to refit here, only estimate I have are engine unit in
the region of 2k. Has anyone good experience in a complete engine
rebuild for significantly less.

o Rough cost descriptions for standing rigging replacement on a cutter
for example, 30 or 35 foot?

o Rough costs for sails for a 35 footer for example? (exampling
cutter, gaff etc if vastly different)

o Rough costs for having keel bolts pulled and replaced?

Of course the inital assumption may be flawed to assume working on a
£15K boat. It may be there are real life examples where that is simply
a false economy. House restoration has taught me that removing layers
reveals more problems but I have no experience in costs in the Classic
wooden yacht world.
Should a basket case be expected for that much or is it a reasonable
figure?

Perhaps someone can example worst case scenarios with real life
pricing guestimates.

Worst case scenario if keel wood/backbone turns out to be soft once
stripped and serious work is required? (ie: hull split and keel and
deadwood replacement)
Worst case if a survey highlighted multiple ribs to be removed and
replaced? Say 50%.
Worst case costs if the floor or parts of the floor must be renewed to
secure ribs to keel?
Worst case costs of the ruddern or attachment points are rotten?

These costs may be capable of being absorbed but equally may just make
it pointless if the end value is less than the sum total of vessel +
repair.

All and any other experiences are valid, I am ignoring the cost of
storage as land is available for long term working but long term
drying raises questions. Is there an opinion on long term land based
storage of a classic while work is carried out? Planks splittings from
drying effect, warping etc once removed from constant immersion.

I'm not sure if I have brain dumped too much so all and any feedback
is gratefully recieved.

Thanks.

I have a 1949 33' ChrisCraft, with a 351 fuel injected V-8 Freshwater
cooled engine.
I paid $15K for it, after the engine was installed. The receipts show
that the engine and installation cost $10K.
There are lots of good deals out there. But wooden boats cost $$$ to
maintain and moor.
Every time I take my boat out I feel like I am driving a work of art!
And if you leave a double planked boat out of the water for too long,
I understand that it takes a couple of real leaky weeks
for it to re-swell and seal up....
Want to see pictures?
I live in the SF Bay area. My wife is a bit of a lubber, but she will
go out on it. She just will not pick up a piece of sandpaper........

tomdownard wrote:
On Mar 21, 9:19 am, wrote:
Hi,

I have a series of questions that could possibly be served by a chat
with a decent Yacht surveyor but I would like some real life feedback
before starting to engage professionals. Consider me to be
researching.

To set the picture I am based in the UK & I have a hankering for a
wooden Classic, say a 30 to 35 foot yacht for my girlfriend & I to
enjoy for weekend cruising and channel hopping. Old fibre glass yachts
in the same price ranges that friends have or have had don't really
appeal. I am not averse to getting my hands dirty having gutted &
refitted my house myself and I have friends who are carpenters and am
reasonably capable with wood myself.

However, I am not experienced in steaming or fixing frames and more
intricate pieces of wood work I would expect to find during a restore
and have never worked on a wooden yacht.

So, if I were to purchase a wooden yacht of around 30 - 35 foot range
for an initial outlay of say £10 - 20k what kind of pitfalls can I
expect? Please be assured a survey would be undertaken for assesement.

o Can anyone provide an example of costs refitting decks to a similar
wooden vessel? Self-fitted marine-ply + teak or alt. vs a yard fitting
cost? Of course I'm assuming deck supports and knee's to be good.

o Can anyone provide an indication of costs to strip, recaulk and
prime/paint the exterior? Time is a factor here, is it even vaguely
sensible to consider machine use (ie: sandblasting may be an damaging
sacriledge)

o Any rough cost descriptions for replacement of a 15 or 20hp engine?
Assuming a yard to refit here, only estimate I have are engine unit in
the region of 2k. Has anyone good experience in a complete engine
rebuild for significantly less.

o Rough cost descriptions for standing rigging replacement on a cutter
for example, 30 or 35 foot?

o Rough costs for sails for a 35 footer for example? (exampling
cutter, gaff etc if vastly different)

o Rough costs for having keel bolts pulled and replaced?

Of course the inital assumption may be flawed to assume working on a
£15K boat. It may be there are real life examples where that is simply
a false economy. House restoration has taught me that removing layers
reveals more problems but I have no experience in costs in the Classic
wooden yacht world.
Should a basket case be expected for that much or is it a reasonable
figure?

Perhaps someone can example worst case scenarios with real life
pricing guestimates.

Worst case scenario if keel wood/backbone turns out to be soft once
stripped and serious work is required? (ie: hull split and keel and
deadwood replacement)
Worst case if a survey highlighted multiple ribs to be removed and
replaced? Say 50%.
Worst case costs if the floor or parts of the floor must be renewed to
secure ribs to keel?
Worst case costs of the ruddern or attachment points are rotten?

These costs may be capable of being absorbed but equally may just make
it pointless if the end value is less than the sum total of vessel +
repair.

All and any other experiences are valid, I am ignoring the cost of
storage as land is available for long term working but long term
drying raises questions. Is there an opinion on long term land based
storage of a classic while work is carried out? Planks splittings from
drying effect, warping etc once removed from constant immersion.

I'm not sure if I have brain dumped too much so all and any feedback
is gratefully recieved.

Thanks.

I have a 1949 33' ChrisCraft, with a 351 fuel injected V-8 Freshwater
cooled engine.
I paid $15K for it, after the engine was installed. The receipts show
that the engine and installation cost $10K.
There are lots of good deals out there. But wooden boats cost $$$ to
maintain and moor.
Every time I take my boat out I feel like I am driving a work of art!
And if you leave a double planked boat out of the water for too long,
I understand that it takes a couple of real leaky weeks
for it to re-swell and seal up....
Want to see pictures?
I live in the SF Bay area. My wife is a bit of a lubber, but she will
go out on it. She just will not pick up a piece of sandpaper........

Tom,

Has it occurred to you that maybe your wife is smart enough to not get
hooked into loving wooden boats?

I can appreciate the effort and your comment "if no DIY - don't Buy" (If
that is not licensed, I may borrow it.)
Those old wood boats are a true work of art. If you can afford to pay
someone to do the job right these days, you probably shouldn't.

A close friend recently bought a mahogany powerboat (no idea who built
it) for 1000$us. Two clean nice Graymarine engines and not rot that we
could find. The owner was the first owner and has just gotten too old
to take care of it. And - Few local yard will haul it - they are afraid
of wood.

Well, one old engineer to another (retired Chief Steam or Motor - Ft.
Schuyler) Enjoy your self.

Matt Colie

Thanks Matt, guestimates are helpfull and I appreciate things can vary
more than expected. I'd looked into engine replacements and chatted at
a boat show, very simple investigation and yes, I'm aware engine beds
rarely match and diesel would be the preferred choice. The advice
around the surveyor is good as well, something to be mindfull of.
How to choose a reputable surveyor I suspect would spawn a whole new
thread and be based on word of mouth.

As for the secondary comment well, yes, I believe I am of the mindset
to like something thats got good character. I wouldn't have gutted a
100 year old house and started again if I felt any different. Wooden
Yachts need more caution owing to the possibilty of serious rot
compared to a house.


Tom, thanks for the comments. I think a ply based boat is something I
had decided upon avoiding but its good you echo the same comments
about double planking. I am curious to see the misfortune from a
double planked "leaky" boat if you had a link, I've read around on
people preparing for relaunch with three sets of pumps even when
believing their newly caulked boats to be good, only to find a
multitude of leaks.
In terms of maintenance cost I am of the mindset to fix it right and
then maintain it.


If anyone had any comments the original post, wild guestimates are
acceptable. Deck replacement is something quite possible for me to
encounter and something I am mindfull of attempting myself. Focusing
purely on cost for a moment has anyone sucessfully managed to lift a
teak deck and re-use, perhaps planing down the original teak and re-
fitting over a ply subdeck?
Any time estimates or yard based cost estimates would be good.

All and any comments around the original post gratefully accepted, any
time and cost estimates are good.