I'm building a 40 ft. ocean cruising ketch. My deck plan is to be
Port Orford Cedar strips, (about 3/8 inch thick, vertical grain),
epoxied onto a fiberglass sheathed epoxy subdeck. How would you treat
the exposed wood to preserve it but maintain it's non-skid? I'm
thinking of stabilization from shrinkage and cracking of the exposed
surface primarily. Rot protection and stain protection are other
considerations. Real world experience is especially desired.

You know, you might want to re-think your choice of materials here. cedar's
pretty soft, and wouldn't look very good very long if left natural and
unfinished, both from the weathering and from the damage to the wood that
occurs in everyday use - from walking on it, to dropping winch handles on
it, to scrubbing away at the mildew to get it looking bright again. Even
vertical-grain teak, as tough and oily as it is, weathers and wears and
erodes away over time. I've got a teak deck that was over an inch thick when
it was built, and there are spots on it that are no more than 5/8" thick
now. Scrubbing the deck to brighten it up erodes the soft grain, and then
you're tempted to sand it to recover the smooth surface, and before long
your three-eights of an inch is gone.

You're not likely to find a finish that you can apply to it that will
protect it the way you want, without losing the (slight) non-skid properties
of an unfinished deck. Varnish it, and it'll be slippery as hell (although
you might find a non-skid additive that would remain reasonably clear - some
people have successfully used tiny glass beads, which leaves a sort of milky
translucence). What did I do with mine? Eventually I gave up and painted it.

A number of years ago a renowned boat builder, Renaissance Yachts, launched
a Herreshoff Bounty replica, 57', exquisitely built, with cedar decks like
you're describing, and I saw it up here in Port Townsend, WA, about a year
after it was built. Even after that short time - a year! - the caulk had
begun to separate from the sides of the seams. We just shook our heads. I've
caulked the teak decks on my 41' sloop several times in the years I've owned
it, and generally I could get the caulk to adhere to the sides of the seams
for around five years before I started having trouble.

However, all that aside, if you can't be dissuaded from using cedar, I'd
suggest Alaskan yellow cedar instead of Port Orford, which is getting
scarcer and scarcer by the year.

My advice? Put another layer of plywood on the subdeck, glass it, and paint
it.

Tom Dacon

"Shanghai" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm building a 40 ft. ocean cruising ketch. My deck plan is to be
Port Orford Cedar strips, (about 3/8 inch thick, vertical grain),
epoxied onto a fiberglass sheathed epoxy subdeck. How would you treat
the exposed wood to preserve it but maintain it's non-skid? I'm
thinking of stabilization from shrinkage and cracking of the exposed
surface primarily. Rot protection and stain protection are other
considerations. Real world experience is especially desired.

"Tom Dacon" wrote in message
...
You know, you might want to re-think your choice of materials here.
cedar's pretty soft, and wouldn't look very good very long if left natural
and unfinished, both from the weathering and from the damage to the wood
that occurs in everyday use - from walking on it, to dropping winch
handles on it, to scrubbing away at the mildew to get it looking bright
again. Even vertical-grain teak, as tough and oily as it is, weathers and
wears and erodes away over time. I've got a teak deck that was over an
inch thick when it was built, and there are spots on it that are no more
than 5/8" thick now. Scrubbing the deck to brighten it up erodes the soft
grain, and then you're tempted to sand it to recover the smooth surface,
and before long your three-eights of an inch is gone.

You're not likely to find a finish that you can apply to it that will
protect it the way you want, without losing the (slight) non-skid
properties of an unfinished deck. Varnish it, and it'll be slippery as
hell (although you might find a non-skid additive that would remain
reasonably clear - some people have successfully used tiny glass beads,
which leaves a sort of milky translucence). What did I do with mine?
Eventually I gave up and painted it.

A number of years ago a renowned boat builder, Renaissance Yachts,
launched a Herreshoff Bounty replica, 57', exquisitely built, with cedar
decks like you're describing, and I saw it up here in Port Townsend, WA,
about a year after it was built. Even after that short time - a year! -
the caulk had begun to separate from the sides of the seams. We just shook
our heads. I've caulked the teak decks on my 41' sloop several times in
the years I've owned it, and generally I could get the caulk to adhere to
the sides of the seams for around five years before I started having
trouble.

However, all that aside, if you can't be dissuaded from using cedar, I'd
suggest Alaskan yellow cedar instead of Port Orford, which is getting
scarcer and scarcer by the year.

My advice? Put another layer of plywood on the subdeck, glass it, and
paint it.

Tom Dacon


For a "wood look," people are reporting good success with laminating
PlasTeak or other "plastic wood" rather than teak. Over time it weathers to
a salt-washed teak look, and has reasonable non-skid properties that last
and last.

On Jul 18, 8:26 pm, "Tom Dacon" wrote:
You know, you might want to re-think your choice of materials here.
.....
A number of years ago a renowned boat builder, Renaissance Yachts, launched
a Herreshoff Bounty replica, 57', exquisitely built, with cedar decks like
you're describing, and I saw it up here in Port Townsend, WA, about a year
after it was built. Even after that short time - a year! - the caulk had
begun to separate from the sides of the seams.
.....
However, all that aside, if you can't be dissuaded from using cedar, I'd
suggest Alaskan yellow cedar instead of Port Orford, which is getting
scarcer and scarcer by the year.

Well, Port Orford Cedar has long been considered a prime material for
laid decks at least. My choice is based on two basic criteria. I'm
trying to build the boat using only domestic woods, and I've got
plenty of the POC already cut and airdried in 2 1/4 x 2 1/4 strips
cut from trees on my own property.

I wonder if periodic washdowns with sea water, letting it dry on the
surface to concentrate the salt, and/or washdowns with even saltier
water would stabilize it. I'm also thinking of things like Thompson's
Water Seal.

Sounds like a rubbery caulking (e.g. polyurethane) between the strips
would be advisable over a black epoxy (which I've also heard is used)
due to expansion/contraction issues. I'll have no piercings thru my
glass membrane so no chance of leaks regardless of what happens to the
overlay.

"Shanghai" wrote in message
ups.com...


Sounds like a rubbery caulking (e.g. polyurethane) between the strips
would be advisable over a black epoxy (which I've also heard is used)
due to expansion/contraction issues. I'll have no piercings thru my
glass membrane so no chance of leaks regardless of what happens to the
overlay.


Use Sikaflex 291 for your deck adhesive, but you will need to use a caulk
with a UV light inhibitor. Sikaflex has such a product but is/was difficult
to get in the U.S..

Teak Decking Systems (Florida) also has an excellent adhesive and decking
caulk .

You don't want to use a rigid epoxy with any teak decking thicker than
3/16". When using a cedar, never use epoxy if the cedar will be exposed to
water...in my opinion.

regards...Ken

On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 08:32:14 +0000, Shanghai wrote:

I'm building a 40 ft. ocean cruising ketch. My deck plan is to be
Port Orford Cedar strips, (about 3/8 inch thick, vertical grain),
epoxied onto a fiberglass sheathed epoxy subdeck. How would you treat
the exposed wood to preserve it but maintain it's non-skid? I'm
thinking of stabilization from shrinkage and cracking of the exposed
surface primarily. Rot protection and stain protection are other
considerations. Real world experience is especially desired.


dont know as you need to protect POC. its gonna get dinged up and its
gonna silver and if you are down where it grows you probably ought to talk
to rick hazard in Port orford.
personally i would go sink it for a couple of weeks in the bay and let it
soak up a bunch of salt water then redry it; salts gonna preserve it
better than most things will.
also it would seem to me that POC is oily and varnish or epoxy is just
going to peel off. i would say toung oil or linseed oil would do the trick.

on skin on frame kayaks we just sink them and let the salt do the job for
us; and yes we do build them from POC. I'm currently bending the ribs on
a POC 17' ATM

On Jul 18, 4:32 am, Shanghai wrote:
I'm building a 40 ft. ocean cruising ketch. My deck plan is to be
Port Orford Cedar strips, (about 3/8 inch thick, vertical grain),
epoxied onto a fiberglass sheathed epoxy subdeck. How would you treat
the exposed wood to preserve it but maintain it's non-skid? I'm
thinking of stabilization from shrinkage and cracking of the exposed
surface primarily. Rot protection and stain protection are other
considerations. Real world experience is especially desired.

I quess your mind is made up to use Port Orford cedar since you
already have it.

Port Orford Cedar has been used for laid decks, thats true but it has
traditionally been canvased over or covered with mahogany from my
understanding.

Since you want to use local woods of the two I would go the canvassing
route.

As far as finishing route, I would roll a thinned, clear, epoxy resin
with a slow hardener. MAS epoxy allows thinning up to 10% with
alchohol. This will allow the epoxy to flow out as much as possible.
Lightly sand it, and proceed with multiple coats of a high quality
varnish with good UV additives. The Varnish will protect the epoxy
from UV breakdown if redone periodically.

I have had luck with the epoxy/varnish approach on douglas fir in the
sub tropics so you should be fine.


As far as
T