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#1
posted to rec.boats.building
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Tricolour masthead lights
Hi guys, I'm just about to buy the nav lights for my 34 sailboat and
need a bit of advice on tricolour lights. I reckon that the higher the nav lights the better and although none of my previous boats had masthead tri colour lights I want to fit those on my new one. BUT I'm a bit confused about the use of what is advertised as a combined tri/mooring light. Under sail there is no problem, but if under motor, according to the colregs boats of my size may display a white all round combined masthead and sternlight. OK staightforward enough, but if using an all round white light directly under the port and starboard masthead lights, will the white all round light not make it harder for other boats to see the coloured lights? I have looked at a few new boats and they don't have any other steaming light fitted. Is this just sloppy practice by the boatbuilders or am I getting my knickers in a twist for nothing? |
#2
posted to rec.boats.building
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Tricolour masthead lights
pete wrote: Hi guys, I'm just about to buy the nav lights for my 34 sailboat and need a bit of advice on tricolour lights. I reckon that the higher the nav lights the better and although none of my previous boats had masthead tri colour lights I want to fit those on my new one. BUT I'm a bit confused about the use of what is advertised as a combined tri/mooring light. Two diffrent circuits. Two diffrent switches to activate. Under sail there is no problem, but if under motor, according to the colregs boats of my size may display a white all round combined masthead and sternlight. I think you mean "side lights" not sternlight. No? OK staightforward enough, but if using an all round white light directly under the port and starboard masthead lights, will the white all round light not make it harder for other boats to see the coloured lights? tricolor light is used on sailboats only. once you are "propelled by machinery" (motor) you are offically a motorboat and can not use the tricolor. Of course ya got the 7m , 12m and 20m thing. Ya might read the colregs found: http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/navrules.htm I have looked at a few new boats and they don't have any other steaming light fitted. Is this just sloppy practice by the boatbuilders or am I getting my knickers in a twist for nothing? So do you want to use your anchor light to also serve as an all around white light when putting about as a motor boat? And how far does the anchor light in your tricolor shine? And how far is a ColReg all-round white light suppose to shine when underway as a motorboat under 12m? Bulb Head Bob |
#3
posted to rec.boats.building
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Tricolour masthead lights
pete wrote:
Hi guys, I'm just about to buy the nav lights for my 34 sailboat and need a bit of advice on tricolour lights. I reckon that the higher the nav lights the better and although none of my previous boats had masthead tri colour lights I want to fit those on my new one. BUT I'm a bit confused about the use of what is advertised as a combined tri/mooring light. snip The Tri-Color is a sail only light located at the top of the mast. The mooring light is also usually located at the top of the mast and requires a separate circuit. When you are under engine power, NONE of the above lights are used. A white "Steaming light", usually located about half way up the mast, a rear white light as well as red and green lights, usually mounted near deck level, are required, again on a separate circuit. I used a couple of 3 pole, double throw panel switches that were wired to cross interlock them. You could have either the Tri-Color or the "Steaming" lights, but not both. The 3rd pole on the switches was used to control the red back lighting used at night on the compass and other instruments. HTH Lew |
#4
posted to rec.boats.building
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Tricolour masthead lights
Pete,
Your confusion is not unique. The all around and the navigation lights (red and green set) should never be on at the same time. The problem is that the regulators have been pushing the trilight on the basis of better visiblity when undersail without any consideration of: a- maintenance, b- equipment complications. Though it is not clear unless you are very good at reading regulese (my new word), there is separation required between the navigation lights and the forward range light (aka steaming light) that is not possible with a trilight. Ergo - you must still retain and use the low level navigation lights when propelled by machinery. Matt Colie Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Congenital Sailor pete wrote: Hi guys, I'm just about to buy the nav lights for my 34 sailboat and need a bit of advice on tricolour lights. I reckon that the higher the nav lights the better and although none of my previous boats had masthead tri colour lights I want to fit those on my new one. BUT I'm a bit confused about the use of what is advertised as a combined tri/mooring light. Under sail there is no problem, but if under motor, according to the colregs boats of my size may display a white all round combined masthead and sternlight. OK staightforward enough, but if using an all round white light directly under the port and starboard masthead lights, will the white all round light not make it harder for other boats to see the coloured lights? I have looked at a few new boats and they don't have any other steaming light fitted. Is this just sloppy practice by the boatbuilders or am I getting my knickers in a twist for nothing? |
#5
posted to rec.boats.building
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Tricolour masthead lights
So the minimum you would need is (?): Sailing: Tricolor on mast top, nothin else. Motoring: Tricolor on mast top plus 'steaming light' forward, half up the mast OR All around white light on mast top plus red/green on bow Anchoring: All around white light on mast top. That would mean for motoring you could augment the tricolor with whichever of the original lights is still working. Is this correct? (I am currently putting a lightstick up the mast when anchoring. Matt Colie wrote: Pete, Your confusion is not unique. The all around and the navigation lights (red and green set) should never be on at the same time. The problem is that the regulators have been pushing the trilight on the basis of better visiblity when undersail without any consideration of: a- maintenance, b- equipment complications. Though it is not clear unless you are very good at reading regulese (my new word), there is separation required between the navigation lights and the forward range light (aka steaming light) that is not possible with a trilight. Ergo - you must still retain and use the low level navigation lights when propelled by machinery. Matt Colie Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner and Congenital Sailor pete wrote: Hi guys, I'm just about to buy the nav lights for my 34 sailboat and need a bit of advice on tricolour lights. I reckon that the higher the nav lights the better and although none of my previous boats had masthead tri colour lights I want to fit those on my new one. BUT I'm a bit confused about the use of what is advertised as a combined tri/mooring light. Under sail there is no problem, but if under motor, according to the colregs boats of my size may display a white all round combined masthead and sternlight. OK staightforward enough, but if using an all round white light directly under the port and starboard masthead lights, will the white all round light not make it harder for other boats to see the coloured lights? I have looked at a few new boats and they don't have any other steaming light fitted. Is this just sloppy practice by the boatbuilders or am I getting my knickers in a twist for nothing? |
#6
posted to rec.boats.building
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Tricolour masthead lights
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#7
posted to rec.boats.building
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Tricolour masthead lights
Ooops, November 3rd must be smartassday.
I understand that you can't show the all around white light directly above the red green, but I thought that one can combine steaming and rear (~12m), so what is wrong with the combinations above? Not quite. Read and understand my previous post. Lew |
#8
posted to rec.boats.building
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Tricolour masthead lights
Chris,
I didn't really understand what lights you were describing, so I'm going to include the relevant rules. When you're sailing, you fall under rule 25 abc unless you're under 7 meters long (approx 22 feet). When you're motoring, you're under Rule 23. I can't recall if you told us how long your boat is. That would help refine the requirements. Rule 25 Sailing Vessels Underway and Vessels Under Oars (a) a sailing vessel underway shall exhibit: (i) sidelights; (ii) a sternlight. (b) In a sailing vessel of less than 20 meters in length the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule may be combined in one lantern carried at or near the top of the mast where it can best be seen. (c) A sailing vessel underway may, in addition to the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule, exhibit at or near the top of the mast, where they can best be seen, two all-round lights in a vertical line, the upper being red and the lower Green, but these lights shall not be exhibited in conjunction with the combined lantern permitted by paragraph (b) of this Rule. [snip] ===== Rule 23 power driven Vessels Underway (a) A power driven vessel underway shall exhibit: (i) a masthead light forward; (ii) a second masthead light abaft of and higher than the forward one; except that a vessel of less than 50 meters in length shall not be obliged to exhibit such a light but may do so; (iii) sidelights: and (iv) a sternlight. (b) An air-cushion vessel when operating in non-displacement mode shall, in addition to the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule, exhibit an all-round flashing yellow light. (c) (i) A power driven vessel of less than 12 meters in length may in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule exhibit an all-round white light and sidelights. (ii) a power driven vessel of less than 7 meters in length whose maximum speed does not exceed 7 knots may in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule exhibit an all-round white light and shall, if practicable, also exhibit sidelights. (iii) the masthead light or all-round white light on a power driven vessel of less than 12 meters in length may be displaced from the fore and aft centerline of the vessel if centerline fitting is not practicable, provided the sidelights are combined in one lantern which shall be carried on the fore and aft centerline of the vessel or located as nearly as practicable in the same fore and aft line as the masthead light or all-round white light. wrote: Ooops, November 3rd must be smartassday. I understand that you can't show the all around white light directly above the red green, but I thought that one can combine steaming and rear (~12m), so what is wrong with the combinations above? Not quite. Read and understand my previous post. Lew |
#9
posted to rec.boats.building
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Tricolour masthead lights
White light must not be seeing from up ahead, approaching vessels.
only from vessels on both sides and behind. All around white light only when anchored. fair winds! wrote: Ooops, November 3rd must be smartassday. I understand that you can't show the all around white light directly above the red green, but I thought that one can combine steaming and rear (~12m), so what is wrong with the combinations above? Not quite. Read and understand my previous post. Lew |
#10
posted to rec.boats.building
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Tricolour masthead lights
Pete,
Do yourself a big favor and DO NOT opt for the tricolour mastead light allowed under colregs Rule 25b, especially if you plan to go offshore. The problem is with visibility to other ships. Sure, they're easier to see because they're high up, but on a dark night, where a watchkeeper on a cargo ship may be judging your distance by the light's height on the horizon, he may think that you're far away while you're almost up against him. Radar doesn't help the problem, because your small boat might not return much of an echo. Normally, if you have a radar reflector, enough of an echo is returned to show up on the screen, but in the case where the officer of the watch sees your lights high on the horizon, and thinks you're further away, he may not notice your echo very close to the sea clutter at the center of his screen. I was sailing on a Panamax bulker, last winter, and the captain told me how this had happened to him. He came very close to a yacht, so close that he could see there wasn't anyone steering, once he turned on the outside floodlights. As I described above, he thought the vessel was further away, and made of a material absorbing his radar waves, like wood or fibreglass. He finally had a doubt when he noticed the bearing was altering quickly, and so he turned on the floodlights. The yacht was about a hundred meters away on the port side. Needless to say, there was panic and "hard-a-starboard". Anyway, my point is that if you want masthead lights in order for ships to spot you more easily, you should opt for the combination allowed under rule 25c, which is all-round red over green at the masthead combined with sidelights at the deck level, and a sternlight also at deck level. Thus, you'll present Red-Green-Red, Red-Green-Green or Red-Green-White to any approaching ship, which is guaranteed to persuade even the thickest-headed Russian mate to shy from the course line on his electronic chart. -maxime camirand pete wrote: Hi guys, I'm just about to buy the nav lights for my 34 sailboat and need a bit of advice on tricolour lights. I reckon that the higher the nav lights the better and although none of my previous boats had masthead tri colour lights I want to fit those on my new one. BUT I'm a bit confused about the use of what is advertised as a combined tri/mooring light. Under sail there is no problem, but if under motor, according to the colregs boats of my size may display a white all round combined masthead and sternlight. OK staightforward enough, but if using an all round white light directly under the port and starboard masthead lights, will the white all round light not make it harder for other boats to see the coloured lights? I have looked at a few new boats and they don't have any other steaming light fitted. Is this just sloppy practice by the boatbuilders or am I getting my knickers in a twist for nothing? |
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