This engine is a mechanical from a 1990, I really like the simplicity of
this setup From what I have read most all the motors 92 and prior were
mechanical. But really any year can be converted to a mechanical pump. Its
really amazing how cheap these motors can be found. The only significant
internal difference between the 6.2 and 6.5 is the bore, in fact many
builders perfer the 6.2 block bored .040 to a 6.5. There are some
differences in the heads over the years but I have not found a good source
of infomation on that.

Injectors and pumps can be upgraded for more power. Dont know if I need to
go there yet until I see my performance vs GPH.

So far the conversion has been easy going. The very little difference than
installing any other gm motor.

Stay in touch and I will keep you posted as I get her launched.

"rock_doctor" wrote in message
roups.com...

"Paul Winchester" wrote in message
news:fuQ2c.138061$4o.178972@attbi_s52...
A 6.5L diesel from a Suburban is being installed with a single Arneson
surface drive.

What year was the 6.5 and was it mechanical injection (i.e. no computer)?
I
wanted to convert my suburban from gas to diesel and am looking for which
years were mechanically injected... Also post back with how you make out
there are quite a few readers here that wanted to do the same project.
You
are the pioneer... Thanks

mark

Paul, What RPM do you plan to run that engine at for 'cruise'?? The prop
will be 1/2 that, I understand. Does the surface drive have more 'slip'

than a non-cavitating prop? And how much does that change the RPM
calculations??

I have OSCO manifolds on the 350 GM I'm running and they've been fine,
and a decent price. Wish they had one for the Rabbit/Golf diesels!
Although there is an British supplier... I built welded copper manifolds

years ago, but had trouble keeping flanges intact. They were real
effective cooling the exhaust, with a .062 copper wall, though. Maybe
I'll think about doing that for a VW Diesel. I think I'd start with a
1/2" steel plate bolted to the block as a 'manifold starter plate' and
braze the copper pipes to that. I have to look at the VW geometry. Maybe

I can pick up a blown engine to play with and measure before making any
committments :-)

Thanks for all the info; I'll be waiting to hear about your launch!

In article SD83c.210320$jk2.722631@attbi_s53, you say...
I am using a standard GM marine bellhousing and shaft coupler mounted to a
manual transmission flywheel. Attached to that is a volvo transmission to
give me a 2:1 reduction and forword-nuetral-reverse gears. I had a constant
velolcity joint made from 2 universal joints that connects between the trans
and drive to take up the engine vibration and slight angle change.The
exhaust manifolds were right out of the OSCO catalog and I am having custom
risers made to connect them to the turbo.

My prop is 17X18" so I may need to get it recupped after I see how it
performs.

--
Regards, Terry King ...In The Woods In Vermont

The one who Dies With The Most Parts LOSES!! What do you need?

I am hoping to cruise around 2200-2500. Normally aspirated, the Gm motor
(actually designed by Detroit Diesel) achieves peak torque at 1800 rpm and
at peak power (best combination of torque and hp) at 2800rpm. The motor is
governed by the fuel pump to 3600-3800. Its best to keep the rpms under 3000
since power drops off rapidly above that.

With the addition of a good sized detroit diesel allison turbo from 6V71
which is about 20ci larger than my motor my goal is 18-20lbs of boost at
cruise. I will be monitoring an exhaust gas temp gauge to make sure I dont
overheat the motor from too much boost.

Some research leads me to believe the design of the suface drive does have
more slip than a submerged prop. It is designed so that at planning speed
only half the prop is in the water. Thus the "surface piercing" prop is
likely slipping more, but this can be varied by the trim.
Interesting paper on the topic: http://www.well.com/user/pk/SPAprofboat.html

The main advantage of this is less drag, only the rudder and half the prop
are in the water. The disadvantages I see are that at hull speed I have too
much prop in the water and may get too much bit for the engine\trans. and
reversing can cause spray over the transom if the drive is not trimmed down
first.

I still dont have a good feel for the prop size yet. In the past I have
relied more on a trial and error process for prop selection.
How big do you think my prop size should be????
Figure my engine, trans and drive weigh approximately half of the two old
302s , omc drives. The weight is now farther forward as well due to the way
the engine and trans is mounted inline. I am estimating my empty boat weight
to be 5500lbs with another 1000-1500 for fuel and gear.

More as the story develops.

Paul

"Terry King" wrote in message
.. .
Paul, What RPM do you plan to run that engine at for 'cruise'?? The prop
will be 1/2 that, I understand. Does the surface drive have more 'slip'

than a non-cavitating prop? And how much does that change the RPM
calculations??

I have OSCO manifolds on the 350 GM I'm running and they've been fine,
and a decent price. Wish they had one for the Rabbit/Golf diesels!
Although there is an British supplier... I built welded copper manifolds

years ago, but had trouble keeping flanges intact. They were real
effective cooling the exhaust, with a .062 copper wall, though. Maybe
I'll think about doing that for a VW Diesel. I think I'd start with a
1/2" steel plate bolted to the block as a 'manifold starter plate' and
braze the copper pipes to that. I have to look at the VW geometry. Maybe

I can pick up a blown engine to play with and measure before making any
committments :-)

Thanks for all the info; I'll be waiting to hear about your launch!

In article SD83c.210320$jk2.722631@attbi_s53, you say...
I am using a standard GM marine bellhousing and shaft coupler mounted to
a
manual transmission flywheel. Attached to that is a volvo transmission
to
give me a 2:1 reduction and forword-nuetral-reverse gears. I had a
constant
velolcity joint made from 2 universal joints that connects between the
trans
and drive to take up the engine vibration and slight angle change.The
exhaust manifolds were right out of the OSCO catalog and I am having
custom
risers made to connect them to the turbo.

My prop is 17X18" so I may need to get it recupped after I see how it
performs.

--
Regards, Terry King ...In The Woods In Vermont

The one who Dies With The Most Parts LOSES!! What do you need?

That wav file sounds like a one cylinder SABB, large flywheel, can be hand
started, around 8 horsepower. The Volvo MD1 and MD1A were very similar. Many
are being replaced due to lack of available parts.

For example I bought a MD1 to put in a 43 year old sailboat I am rebuilding. It
was frozen from sitting for several years and though it looks to be in pretty
good shape from the external appearance, I couldn't get it unstuck by turning
the flywheel. So I resigned myself to tearing apart the engine. That's when I
discovered how difficult it was to get parts. After a lot of searching and
calling I got a head gasket - cost was $120!

Then I stumbled on a running Yanmar YSB8G in fairly good shape from a
repower job (owner went from 8 to 16 hp for a 29 footer) for a price I
couldn't refuse. And parts are still readily available.

So now I have 2 diesels and am wondering what to do with the Volvo MD1. I would
like to get it running some day and build a boat for it (thought about a 16'-18'
catboat) but I realize that it will be many years if ever before I get the time
to do it.

JJ

On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 18:52:08 -0800, "Lloyd Sumpter" wrote:

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:37:06 +0000, Lloyd Sumpter wrote:

Hi,

Any suggestions on where I might look for an old, cheap, 5-10hp diesel
suitable for an inboard engine? Maybe a tractor engine, or "stationary"...? Any
thoughts?

Lloyd

Thanks to all who replied! It's great to know others share my dreams of
designs based on feel and sound rather than performance.

But Reality has set in: Even if I use a Briggs&Stratton, I'll be fracturing many
laws here in Canada. I'd need a Hull Ident No, Conformity Plate (Conform? not
likely!), Capacity plate, and since it's an inboard, a fire extinguisher,
approved inboard fuel tank, explosion-proof electrics (Yeah - how do you
eliminate the spark on a B&S magneto?). Geez, the fees alone would cost me more
than the boat!

Ahhh....for those bygone days when the Gov't wasn't "taking care" of you...My
dad had a wooden boat (10ft?) with a 1 1/2hp Lawson (Kinda like a B&S), The
engine outlasted the boat, and neither one blew up, despite not having any HIN,
plates, or approvals.

But those old Listers (and the Indian clones, the Listeroids) sure look and
sound nice! (BTW, the sound bite was a 1-cyl 6hp Lister)

Lloyd - Off to build a 1 1/2 Sheet fishing pram...

James Johnson
remove the "dot" from after sail in email address to reply

The biggest problem with auto engine conversion to marine use is the
transmission. Marine transmissions absorb the thrust from the propeller and
have large thrust bearings designed for that kind of load. Other types of
transmissions quickly wear out due to that thrust which they were never designed
for. There are solutions but they all tend to be pricey.

JJ

On Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:12:43 -0500, Terry King wrote:

Hi Brian,

I've done conversions on automobile V-8's and run them for years..

I have a 350 GM in the same boat I built in 1978 (25th anniversary last
Summer on Lake Champlain).

The 'conventional' conversion adds exhaust manifolds, water
pump/plumbing, flame arrester, drive train solution, and motor mounts.

Since it's been so long since I've done one, and I'm interested in 1 or 2
small diesels for a slower bigger boat, I wonder what people here have
done.

In article ,
says...
I've done an engine aero conversion, and there is more to it than
meets the eye, so I am leery.
But thinking on your suggestion, we are talking cooling and we are
talking forward/reverse. Think you could handle those?
If you can, VW would be very, very promising.
Or howz about a Mercedes?

James Johnson
remove the "dot" from after sail in email address to reply

Good thought, about thrust bearings....
To get a feeling for the size of the force, I'll explore the curious
fact that a given HP gives more thust at lower operating speed.

Ignore losses (!)
Take 20 HP as the example
20 HP = 20 X 746 watts, say 15 kW

And let's take speeds of 2 mph, 4 mph, 6 mph
Roughly, thats 1 meters/second, 2 m/s, 3 m/s
so the maximal thrust is 15,000 newtons, 7,500 newtons
and 5,000 newtons at each speed.

Converting to US customary, that's
3300 lbs (Really?) at 1 mph, 1600 lbs at 2, and 800 lbs
at 3 mph respectively.

I guess that's why an aero conversion can get by with the little
thrust bearings fitted to the VW bug engine (for instance)
but a boat engine needs tougher stuff.....

Brian W

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 00:47:06 GMT, James Johnson
wrote:

The biggest problem with auto engine conversion to marine use is the
transmission. Marine transmissions absorb the thrust from the propeller and
have large thrust bearings designed for that kind of load. Other types of
transmissions quickly wear out due to that thrust which they were never designed
for. There are solutions but they all tend to be pricey.

JJ

On Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:12:43 -0500, Terry King wrote:

Hi Brian,

I've done conversions on automobile V-8's and run them for years..

I have a 350 GM in the same boat I built in 1978 (25th anniversary last
Summer on Lake Champlain).

The 'conventional' conversion adds exhaust manifolds, water
pump/plumbing, flame arrester, drive train solution, and motor mounts.

Since it's been so long since I've done one, and I'm interested in 1 or 2
small diesels for a slower bigger boat, I wonder what people here have
done.

In article ,
says...
I've done an engine aero conversion, and there is more to it than
meets the eye, so I am leery.
But thinking on your suggestion, we are talking cooling and we are
talking forward/reverse. Think you could handle those?
If you can, VW would be very, very promising.
Or howz about a Mercedes?

James Johnson
remove the "dot" from after sail in email address to reply

Can't resist
See how easy it is to do this sort of calculation in Metric units .....

David
"Brian Whatcott" wrote in message
...
Good thought, about thrust bearings....
To get a feeling for the size of the force, I'll explore the curious
fact that a given HP gives more thust at lower operating speed.

Ignore losses (!)
Take 20 HP as the example
20 HP = 20 X 746 watts, say 15 kW

And let's take speeds of 2 mph, 4 mph, 6 mph
Roughly, thats 1 meters/second, 2 m/s, 3 m/s
so the maximal thrust is 15,000 newtons, 7,500 newtons
and 5,000 newtons at each speed.

Converting to US customary, that's
3300 lbs (Really?) at 1 mph, 1600 lbs at 2, and 800 lbs
at 3 mph respectively.

I guess that's why an aero conversion can get by with the little
thrust bearings fitted to the VW bug engine (for instance)
but a boat engine needs tougher stuff.....

Brian W

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 00:47:06 GMT, James Johnson
wrote:

The biggest problem with auto engine conversion to marine use is the
transmission. Marine transmissions absorb the thrust from the propeller
and
have large thrust bearings designed for that kind of load. Other types
of
transmissions quickly wear out due to that thrust which they were never
designed
for. There are solutions but they all tend to be pricey.

JJ

On Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:12:43 -0500, Terry King wrote:

Hi Brian,

I've done conversions on automobile V-8's and run them for years..

I have a 350 GM in the same boat I built in 1978 (25th anniversary last
Summer on Lake Champlain).

The 'conventional' conversion adds exhaust manifolds, water
pump/plumbing, flame arrester, drive train solution, and motor mounts.

Since it's been so long since I've done one, and I'm interested in 1 or
2
small diesels for a slower bigger boat, I wonder what people here have
done.

In article ,
says...
I've done an engine aero conversion, and there is more to it than
meets the eye, so I am leery.
But thinking on your suggestion, we are talking cooling and we are
talking forward/reverse. Think you could handle those?
If you can, VW would be very, very promising.
Or howz about a Mercedes?

James Johnson
remove the "dot" from after sail in email address to reply