THE BILL OF RIGHTS
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,
or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to
petition the government for a redress of grievances.

If it's true, it can't be slander. Apparently Carli doesn't know what
slander is. If sharing information about a product that is inferior or
harmful was illegal, we'd all get sued for trying to keep our kids from
smoking or buying Korean cars.

MMC

"Bob" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello All:

I am told there are two sides to every story. My story started
September 6, 2005 when I placed a special order for two 7x15 ss ports
from NFM. What made them so special? I asked for the 10 mm glass.
Little did I know that NFM had never installed 10 mm glass in a 7x15
port. Five months later my ports are now in my living room. And what a
story.

I received my ports for the first time on January 17, 2006. I did have
the option to express mail the ports from China at an additional $600.
I declined and took the cheaper two month shipping option which
eventually turned into five months. When I opened the box and looked at
my gleaming beauties I noticed two problems.

First the port gasket sealed a consistent 3/8" around the main frame
except in the corners where the gaskets deformed making the tight 90
degree turn in the corner. This created only a hairline contact seal. I
did as NFM recommended and tightened all the dogs and two adjusting
bolts. Still had hairline contact between the gasket and mainframe
seat. Why? The gasket is deformed and does not match the gasket seat.

My second problem was the holes on the main frame where the machine
screws pass through to thread into the trim ring were off center. I
could not bolt the trim ring to the main frame because 4 of the 8
machine screws would not pass through the off center holes.

I took pictures and returned to NFM. Carli of NFM looked at the ports
and poured water in the closed ports as a hydro-test. She says the
ports are in perfect order because they did not let standing water leak
over night. The ports were returned to me and I got them on February 6,
2006 exactly five months since my order. I inspected my ports. They
still have the same two problems. This is a classic he said she
said...............but it gets better!

Below is part of an email I sent to NFM a few days ago:

"Dear Carli:
...would you please forward this message to the owner of NFM. I believe
I may have met him in 1980 when I was in PT. I also want to give the
owner an opportunity to respond to my concern before I document this
five month experience on several Internet discussion boards. I will
start with
rec.boats.cruising
rec.boats.building
and a new one called BadBoatBiz

Of course there are several owner groups that accept posts also. I will
be pleased to forward any post I make to NFM if you care to respond to
any. Actually it may make for an interesting dialogue. At this point my
recommendation in less than 10 words is:
friendly staff..... abysmal workmanship.............and a product best
left sitting at the boat show. Do not waste five months and $600 for
these two mediocre ports...."




The above is only part of the original message. I omitted parts of the
original message because it describes the two problems my ports have in
greater detail. What follows is the response I got from NFM today:

From: "New Found Metals"
To: "'Chris'"
Subject: 10mm 7x15 Stainless Ports
"Dear Chris,
We have examined the portlights, specifically the areas that concerned
you: gasket seal and bolt line-up. Neither area proved to be
defective, contrary to your statements. What you have are heavy duty,
sealing, ocean ready port windows.
Both the gasket on the ports and the additional gasket you requested
will form a tight seal and function properly.
We have offered you solutions which have included refunding you for the
portlights (contrary to our no return policy on special orders). You
chose to take the ports back with additional gasket materials.

We do not appreciate the threatening language of your emails. We will
not tolerate slanderous publications and, if necessary, will pursue
legal action if slander is found.

Regards,
Carli
New Found Metals, Inc."



Alright everyone........................... what do you think? What
should I do? Did I use "...threatening language..." in my email?

Chris
AKA Bob

MMC wrote:
THE BILL OF RIGHTS
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,
or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to
petition the government for a redress of grievances.

If it's true, it can't be slander. Apparently Carli doesn't know what
slander is. If sharing information about a product that is inferior or
harmful was illegal, we'd all get sued for trying to keep our kids from
smoking or buying Korean cars.


Normally I'd agree. But times have changed, and we U.S.
citizens don't have the rights we used to have.

The current administration believes that the 14th amendment
gives businesses the right to lie in advertising, and also
gives them the right to offer false statements in contracts.
I'd be willing to bet that their view of negative public
statements about a companies products, no matter the truth,
would be that it is slander.

It will be interesting to see how much of these beliefs the
Supreme Court will formally codify.

DSK

Normally I'd agree. But times have changed, and we U.S.
citizens don't have the rights we used to have.

The current administration believes that the 14th amendment
gives businesses the right to lie in advertising, and also
gives them the right to offer false statements in contracts.
I'd be willing to bet that their view of negative public
statements about a companies products, no matter the truth,
would be that it is slander.

It will be interesting to see how much of these beliefs the
Supreme Court will formally codify.

DSK


Hi DSK
This is a bit off my original concern and problem with NFM but
certainly you have brought up an important topic. I was shocked when I
found out a few years ago that police officers can lie to people during
interviews and interrogations in order to gain information. I was
talking to my son-in-law who is a police officer. I said no way. Then
he brought out is state academy training manual, pointed to the page,
and cited a US Supreme Court case that allows officers to lie in order
to gain information. Sort of gets a guy thinking. How do you know when
a police officer is lying or telling the truth?

But back to NFM problem. They are okay ports if I rebuild them myself.
But if your paying $600 bucks for two ports I think they should arrive
ready to install........or be fixed. The problem is that NFM simply
says, There is nothing wrong with the ports. The really interesting
part to my experience is the most THRETINING thing I said was that I
would post my comments here. That certainly struck a sore spot with
NFM.
Bob

I think you should still try to get a refund via your credit card. I'm
quite certain, living in Denmark, that it would be possible to do here.
No matter if you succeed or not, getting that refund, you should make a
website to get the word out. It cannot be slander when you tell your
story. You have their emails to back it up. The truth cannot be
slander.



Bob wrote:
Normally I'd agree. But times have changed, and we U.S.
citizens don't have the rights we used to have.

The current administration believes that the 14th amendment
gives businesses the right to lie in advertising, and also
gives them the right to offer false statements in contracts.
I'd be willing to bet that their view of negative public
statements about a companies products, no matter the truth,
would be that it is slander.

It will be interesting to see how much of these beliefs the
Supreme Court will formally codify.

DSK


Hi DSK
This is a bit off my original concern and problem with NFM but
certainly you have brought up an important topic. I was shocked when I
found out a few years ago that police officers can lie to people during
interviews and interrogations in order to gain information. I was
talking to my son-in-law who is a police officer. I said no way. Then
he brought out is state academy training manual, pointed to the page,
and cited a US Supreme Court case that allows officers to lie in order
to gain information. Sort of gets a guy thinking. How do you know when
a police officer is lying or telling the truth?

But back to NFM problem. They are okay ports if I rebuild them myself.
But if your paying $600 bucks for two ports I think they should arrive
ready to install........or be fixed. The problem is that NFM simply
says, There is nothing wrong with the ports. The really interesting
part to my experience is the most THRETINING thing I said was that I
would post my comments here. That certainly struck a sore spot with
NFM.
Bob

Dane wrote:
I think you should still try to get a refund via your credit card. I'm
quite certain, living in Denmark, that it would be possible to do here.
No matter if you succeed or not, getting that refund, you should make a
website to get the word out. It cannot be slander when you tell your
story. You have their emails to back it up. The truth cannot be
slander.


Hi:

I gave the credit card refund optionn lots of thought but in the end I
had to make a bottom line decision. The cut-out deminsion left by my
old ports ar nearly identical to the cut-out deminsions needed for the
Newfound Metals ports. the only other ports that come close to size and
strength are Spartan ports made in Maine, USA. Unfortunalty the Spartan
ports are one inch shorter. This means that I would need to get the
grinder out, tapper the fiberglass area, and build up with epoxy and
glass. The short story is........... I would rather fix the two factory
problems with the NFM ports siting on my living room floor than muck
about with the epoxy build up. Its, simply faster to keep the NFM
ports.
There was a time in my life I would have driven all night an thrown the
ports through the NFM's window and included a big FU spraypainted on
their building. I guess with age comes judgment.

What I am absolutly frustrated about is the fact NFM says my complaint
about the two production problems are not true. About the emails......
I am now realizing that most people must think emails messages simply
disapear after the send button is clicked. guess they do not realize
that email provide an excellent record.
Bob.

Bob wrote:
Dane wrote:
I think you should still try to get a refund via your credit card. I'm
quite certain, living in Denmark, that it would be possible to do here.
No matter if you succeed or not, getting that refund, you should make a
website to get the word out. It cannot be slander when you tell your
story. You have their emails to back it up. The truth cannot be
slander.


Hi:

I gave the credit card refund optionn lots of thought but in the end I
had to make a bottom line decision. The cut-out deminsion left by my
old ports ar nearly identical to the cut-out deminsions needed for the
Newfound Metals ports. the only other ports that come close to size and
strength are Spartan ports made in Maine, USA. Unfortunalty the Spartan
ports are one inch shorter. This means that I would need to get the
grinder out, tapper the fiberglass area, and build up with epoxy and
glass. The short story is........... I would rather fix the two factory
problems with the NFM ports siting on my living room floor than muck
about with the epoxy build up. Its, simply faster to keep the NFM
ports.
There was a time in my life I would have driven all night an thrown the
ports through the NFM's window and included a big FU spraypainted on
their building. I guess with age comes judgment.

What I am absolutly frustrated about is the fact NFM says my complaint
about the two production problems are not true. About the emails......
I am now realizing that most people must think emails messages simply
disapear after the send button is clicked. guess they do not realize
that email provide an excellent record.
Bob.

Very true, Bob

And you should definately use that record to get the best out of it.
Post this story as many places you can, with the emails as back up of
your story, perhaps even make a site of its own. And make references to
that site whereever you go. Maybe you didn't get a 100% product, but it
will help others, and maybe, just, maybe, NFM will pull their shyte
together.

Dane wrote:
Very true, Bob

And you should definately use that record to get the best out of it.
Post this story as many places you can, with the emails as back up of
your story, perhaps even make a site of its own. And make references to
that site whereever you go. Maybe you didn't get a 100% product, but it
will help others, and maybe, just, maybe, NFM will pull their shyte
together.

Hi Dane:
Thanks you for the advice and support. I made this same post at
alt.sailing.asa and recieved nothing but a bunch of one liner put
downs. I just wanted to give folks a heads up in hopes their port
projects would be more productive. As far as the web site..... thats a
bit out of my skill level.
HOpe your day goes well.
Bob