"Backyard Renegade" wrote in message
om...
I hear lot's of stories... Like them at night before bed. But when it
comes to epoxy hardeners, most are extremely hazardous. Read the
lables, talk to the people who have developed real sensitivities to
the stuff, ask the DEP, ask the shippers, christ, read the F88888'
lable... Epoxy fumes are dangerous and many contain carsenogenics
(spelling not checked)... Do not use epoxy in areas where unprotected
folks will be exposed to the fumes.

Epoxy does not contain volatile organic solvents, as opposed to polyester,
which containts high amounts of styrene.
If you read the MSDS's of epoxy and hardener, you'll see that epoxy products
cause problems mainly by skin contact. The 'main route of entry' stated is
always skin contact. They all say modest ventilation is enough, except in
tight areas. Now read a MSDS of polyester. Compared to epoxy, this "scares
the hell out of you".

Oh, by the way, West epoxy and hardener (205/105) contain no carcinogenics.

Meindert

Info about possible allergic reactions to epoxy --

From one presumably reliable medical source:
http://www.dermnetnz.org/pre/dna.acd/epoxy.html

from an epoxy supplier:
http://www.prosetepoxy.com/safety/welcome.html
and a Materials Safety Data Sheet (PDF) from another:
http://www.epoxysystems.com/msds/703.pdf

and anecdotal info from a boatbuilding site:
http://www.fram.nl/workshop/controll...on/allergy.htm

Alex



"Meindert Sprang" wrote in message
...
"Backyard Renegade" wrote in message
om...
I hear lot's of stories... Like them at night before bed. But when it
comes to epoxy hardeners, most are extremely hazardous. Read the
lables, talk to the people who have developed real sensitivities to
the stuff, ask the DEP, ask the shippers, christ, read the F88888'
lable... Epoxy fumes are dangerous and many contain carsenogenics
(spelling not checked)... Do not use epoxy in areas where unprotected
folks will be exposed to the fumes.

Epoxy does not contain volatile organic solvents, as opposed to polyester,
which containts high amounts of styrene.
If you read the MSDS's of epoxy and hardener, you'll see that epoxy
products
cause problems mainly by skin contact. The 'main route of entry' stated is
always skin contact. They all say modest ventilation is enough, except in
tight areas. Now read a MSDS of polyester. Compared to epoxy, this "scares
the hell out of you".

Oh, by the way, West epoxy and hardener (205/105) contain no
carcinogenics.

Meindert

Meindert Sprang wrote:

"Backyard Renegade" wrote in message
om...
I hear lot's of stories... Like them at night before bed. But when it
comes to epoxy hardeners, most are extremely hazardous. Read the
lables, talk to the people who have developed real sensitivities to
the stuff, ask the DEP, ask the shippers, christ, read the F88888'
lable... Epoxy fumes are dangerous and many contain carsenogenics
(spelling not checked)... Do not use epoxy in areas where unprotected
folks will be exposed to the fumes.

Epoxy does not contain volatile organic solvents, as opposed to polyester,
which containts high amounts of styrene.
If you read the MSDS's of epoxy and hardener, you'll see that epoxy products
cause problems mainly by skin contact. The 'main route of entry' stated is
always skin contact. They all say modest ventilation is enough, except in
tight areas. Now read a MSDS of polyester. Compared to epoxy, this "scares
the hell out of you".

Oh, by the way, West epoxy and hardener (205/105) contain no carcinogenics.

Meindert

Amen, brother!


Dow 330, which I've used for years, has no MDAs either.

And, it's a really good laminating resin for wetting out
glass, carbon, paper, etc.

How ever...

These types of epoxies may be adversely effected by low temps.
Something comes out of solution and the resin looks "grainy".
In this condition, resins will not cure (ever?)

All easily corrected by warming the resin in a hot water bath
until the visual indicators disappear.

I've used US Composites stuff for a couple years.
http://www.shopmaninc.com/epoxy.html
no complaints, other than I wish the hardener I use was available in
No-Blush.

I thought the price was better than other sites I checked, I've had prompt
service, and been generally satisfied with my dealings with them and the
performance of the product I bought.



"DREAMINOFWATER" wrote in message
...
I live in southern Ontario, bout 1 hour west of Toronto (kitchener),
and I was wondering,

WHERE THE HELL CAN I FIND EPOXY DEALERS HERE?????



any info would be appreciated.

Where do you get Dow 330?

System Three, West, Raka, all brands come from major chemical producers.
I wonder how hard it is to get the epoxy direct and how much cheaper
would it be. I have Epoxy kits on my site but I'm not the distributor.



Richard Lamb wrote:

Meindert Sprang wrote:


"Backyard Renegade" wrote in message
.com...


I hear lot's of stories... Like them at night before bed. But when it
comes to epoxy hardeners, most are extremely hazardous. Read the
lables, talk to the people who have developed real sensitivities to
the stuff, ask the DEP, ask the shippers, christ, read the F88888'
lable... Epoxy fumes are dangerous and many contain carsenogenics
(spelling not checked)... Do not use epoxy in areas where unprotected
folks will be exposed to the fumes.


Epoxy does not contain volatile organic solvents, as opposed to polyester,
which containts high amounts of styrene.
If you read the MSDS's of epoxy and hardener, you'll see that epoxy products
cause problems mainly by skin contact. The 'main route of entry' stated is
always skin contact. They all say modest ventilation is enough, except in
tight areas. Now read a MSDS of polyester. Compared to epoxy, this "scares
the hell out of you".

Oh, by the way, West epoxy and hardener (205/105) contain no carcinogenics.

Meindert



Amen, brother!


Dow 330, which I've used for years, has no MDAs either.

And, it's a really good laminating resin for wetting out
glass, carbon, paper, etc.

How ever...

These types of epoxies may be adversely effected by low temps.
Something comes out of solution and the resin looks "grainy".
In this condition, resins will not cure (ever?)

All easily corrected by warming the resin in a hot water bath
until the visual indicators disappear.

Matt Langenfeld wrote:

Where do you get Dow 330?

System Three, West, Raka, all brands come from major chemical producers.
I wonder how hard it is to get the epoxy direct and how much cheaper
would it be. I have Epoxy kits on my site but I'm not the distributor.


---
Paul Oman - being up front - we sell epoxies at www.epoxyproducts.com

OK - yes there are just a few chemical producers that sell the basic resins. But
folks like
WEST, System Three, MAAS, Progressive Epoxy (that's us), don't just repackage the
raw epoxies from the chemical giants (we are not re-packagers). We are formulators
that
take the basic epoxies and 'fix' them to get the properties we want. There are
folks just pour the raw
materials out of drums and sell them direct at low prices, and yes, they these
epoxies can work. I think if you
dared call the WEST folks "repackagers" you would probably hear from their lawyers
within a few days!

Years ago, while living in Houston (in my pre epoxy days) I had a friend that
worked at the shell refinery
nearby. They were one of the giants making epoxy resin. I recall he tried using
some of it from work on a deck with
very unfortunate results.

cheers - paul

Dow DRE 330 is sold in small quantities by Aircraft Spruce
For larget quantities, start with the Dow epoxy site,
http://www.dow.com/epoxy/index.htm

The Shell line of resins is now known as Resolution . Their site is
www.resins.com There's a list of distributors by region.



Matt Langenfeld wrote:

Where do you get Dow 330?

System Three, West, Raka, all brands come from major chemical producers.
I wonder how hard it is to get the epoxy direct and how much cheaper
would it be. I have Epoxy kits on my site but I'm not the distributor.

Richard Lamb wrote:

Meindert Sprang wrote:


"Backyard Renegade" wrote in message
.com...


I hear lot's of stories... Like them at night before bed. But when it
comes to epoxy hardeners, most are extremely hazardous. Read the
lables, talk to the people who have developed real sensitivities to
the stuff, ask the DEP, ask the shippers, christ, read the F88888'
lable... Epoxy fumes are dangerous and many contain carsenogenics
(spelling not checked)... Do not use epoxy in areas where unprotected
folks will be exposed to the fumes.


Epoxy does not contain volatile organic solvents, as opposed to polyester,
which containts high amounts of styrene.
If you read the MSDS's of epoxy and hardener, you'll see that epoxy products
cause problems mainly by skin contact. The 'main route of entry' stated is
always skin contact. They all say modest ventilation is enough, except in
tight areas. Now read a MSDS of polyester. Compared to epoxy, this "scares
the hell out of you".

Oh, by the way, West epoxy and hardener (205/105) contain no carcinogenics.

Meindert



Amen, brother!


Dow 330, which I've used for years, has no MDAs either.

And, it's a really good laminating resin for wetting out
glass, carbon, paper, etc.

How ever...

These types of epoxies may be adversely effected by low temps.
Something comes out of solution and the resin looks "grainy".
In this condition, resins will not cure (ever?)

All easily corrected by warming the resin in a hot water bath
until the visual indicators disappear.

For some reason, I see the following statement (below) and wonder how many
are missing what the value-add is from the branded epoxy companies. Just
because base resins come from major manufacturers doesn't mean everybody's
epoxy is the same. Take a look at the MSDS's (safety) and the physical
properties tech sheet and you will see that they ARE indeed different from
the different companies. Why? It's like saying all aluminum or all steel
or all stainless steel is the same because all aluminums use aluminum and
all steels use iron. The difference comes from what goes INTO the
hardeners. The additions that make a hardener a hardener are what control
the final physical properties of the cured epoxy. All epoxies are not the
same. OK, I simplified. The truth is that the resins ALSO vary and this
impacts the physical properties of the epoxy too. They just are not all the
same, end of story. Get the spec sheets, compare to WEST or System Three,
then buy whatever brand you want that comes close.

Brian

http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass (My boat)

"Matt Langenfeld" wrote in message
link.net...
Where do you get Dow 330?

System Three, West, Raka, all brands come from major chemical producers.
I wonder how hard it is to get the epoxy direct and how much cheaper
would it be. I have Epoxy kits on my site but I'm not the distributor.



Richard Lamb wrote:

Meindert Sprang wrote:


"Backyard Renegade" wrote in message
.com...


I hear lot's of stories... Like them at night before bed. But when it
comes to epoxy hardeners, most are extremely hazardous. Read the
lables, talk to the people who have developed real sensitivities to
the stuff, ask the DEP, ask the shippers, christ, read the F88888'
lable... Epoxy fumes are dangerous and many contain carsenogenics
(spelling not checked)... Do not use epoxy in areas where unprotected
folks will be exposed to the fumes.


Epoxy does not contain volatile organic solvents, as opposed to
polyester,
which containts high amounts of styrene.
If you read the MSDS's of epoxy and hardener, you'll see that epoxy
products
cause problems mainly by skin contact. The 'main route of entry' stated
is
always skin contact. They all say modest ventilation is enough, except
in
tight areas. Now read a MSDS of polyester. Compared to epoxy, this
"scares
the hell out of you".

Oh, by the way, West epoxy and hardener (205/105) contain no
carcinogenics.

Meindert



Amen, brother!


Dow 330, which I've used for years, has no MDAs either.

And, it's a really good laminating resin for wetting out
glass, carbon, paper, etc.

How ever...

These types of epoxies may be adversely effected by low temps.
Something comes out of solution and the resin looks "grainy".
In this condition, resins will not cure (ever?)

All easily corrected by warming the resin in a hot water bath
until the visual indicators disappear.

Perhaps I should have phrased differetly. I'm not discountig the value
added by distributers.

Brian D wrote:

For some reason, I see the following statement (below) and wonder how many
are missing what the value-add is from the branded epoxy companies. Just
because base resins come from major manufacturers doesn't mean everybody's
epoxy is the same. Take a look at the MSDS's (safety) and the physical
properties tech sheet and you will see that they ARE indeed different from
the different companies. Why? It's like saying all aluminum or all steel
or all stainless steel is the same because all aluminums use aluminum and
all steels use iron. The difference comes from what goes INTO the
hardeners. The additions that make a hardener a hardener are what control
the final physical properties of the cured epoxy. All epoxies are not the
same. OK, I simplified. The truth is that the resins ALSO vary and this
impacts the physical properties of the epoxy too. They just are not all the
same, end of story. Get the spec sheets, compare to WEST or System Three,
then buy whatever brand you want that comes close.

Brian

http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass (My boat)

"Matt Langenfeld" wrote in message
hlink.net...


Where do you get Dow 330?

System Three, West, Raka, all brands come from major chemical producers.
I wonder how hard it is to get the epoxy direct and how much cheaper
would it be. I have Epoxy kits on my site but I'm not the distributor.



Richard Lamb wrote:



Meindert Sprang wrote:




"Backyard Renegade" wrote in message
le.com...




I hear lot's of stories... Like them at night before bed. But when it
comes to epoxy hardeners, most are extremely hazardous. Read the
lables, talk to the people who have developed real sensitivities to
the stuff, ask the DEP, ask the shippers, christ, read the F88888'
lable... Epoxy fumes are dangerous and many contain carsenogenics
(spelling not checked)... Do not use epoxy in areas where unprotected
folks will be exposed to the fumes.




Epoxy does not contain volatile organic solvents, as opposed to


polyester,


which containts high amounts of styrene.
If you read the MSDS's of epoxy and hardener, you'll see that epoxy


products


cause problems mainly by skin contact. The 'main route of entry' stated


is


always skin contact. They all say modest ventilation is enough, except


in


tight areas. Now read a MSDS of polyester. Compared to epoxy, this


"scares


the hell out of you".

Oh, by the way, West epoxy and hardener (205/105) contain no


carcinogenics.


Meindert




Amen, brother!


Dow 330, which I've used for years, has no MDAs either.

And, it's a really good laminating resin for wetting out
glass, carbon, paper, etc.

How ever...

These types of epoxies may be adversely effected by low temps.
Something comes out of solution and the resin looks "grainy".
In this condition, resins will not cure (ever?)

All easily corrected by warming the resin in a hot water bath
until the visual indicators disappear.

"Matt Langenfeld" writes:

Perhaps I should have phrased differetly. I'm not discountig the value
added by distributers.

Distributors are well down on the food chain in the epoxy business.

There are probably no more than 5, possibly 6, manufacturers of base epoxy
resin in the world.(Shell, Dow, & Ciba come to mind).

The base resin by itself doesn't even make a good boat anchor.

The value add to these base resins comes from those who develop and supply
the catalysts to create a system.

I have no idea how many of the firms exist on a world wide basis, but the
quantity is substantial. (In the US, WEST & Systems3 come to mind)

Distribution provides value add by providing time, place and package size
value add to the process.

As an example, my supplier(distributor) will deliver 500 lb drums of resin
and 40 lb pails of hardener on my door step with 24 hour notice at
competitive price levels.

Without that support, I wouldn't be building a boat.

HTH


--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
Visit: http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for Pictures
--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
Visit: http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for Pictures