I've been planning on building a boat next spring but I now have a
friend with a cottage so my plan to build a canoe may turn into
building something that sails.

I've done some preliminary investigation and I like the 'Norwegian
Sailing Pram' by Simon Watts, but frankly the lapstrake construction
looks to be a bit over my head. I have read Kayakcraft and the cedar
strip technique looks more like what I could do well.

I'm not a boat guy so appologies in advance if I write something
incorrect.

This is what I'd like in a boat:

- light enough to car top - I don't want to invest in a trailer
- able to land it on a beach - I think that means I want a dagger
board. The lake at the cottage is shallow (3 feet) for about 50 yards
out
- able to row it well, I'll be rowing it more than sailing through
the marshes etc.
- needs to hold 2 adults and one child, ideally 3 adults
- about 14 feet long - my building space isn't that large

I plan on using it (in order of usage) in an enclosed bay (Burlington
Bay, inside of the bridge), at Long Point (Lake Erie) in the bay and
the marshes.

I like the look of the 'Cosine Wherry' but it doesn't have a sail
option and I'm loathe to go adding to plans on my first try.

thanks in advance

It`s a wee bit bigger than you asked for, but how about the stitch and tape
"Linnet" by Richard Woods?
http://homepages.rya-online.net/dinghies/linnet.htm

"bear" skrev i en meddelelse
om...
I've been planning on building a boat next spring but I now have a
friend with a cottage so my plan to build a canoe may turn into
building something that sails.

I've done some preliminary investigation and I like the 'Norwegian
Sailing Pram' by Simon Watts, but frankly the lapstrake construction
looks to be a bit over my head. I have read Kayakcraft and the cedar
strip technique looks more like what I could do well.

I'm not a boat guy so appologies in advance if I write something
incorrect.

This is what I'd like in a boat:

- light enough to car top - I don't want to invest in a trailer
- able to land it on a beach - I think that means I want a dagger
board. The lake at the cottage is shallow (3 feet) for about 50 yards
out
- able to row it well, I'll be rowing it more than sailing through
the marshes etc.
- needs to hold 2 adults and one child, ideally 3 adults
- about 14 feet long - my building space isn't that large

I plan on using it (in order of usage) in an enclosed bay (Burlington
Bay, inside of the bridge), at Long Point (Lake Erie) in the bay and
the marshes.

I like the look of the 'Cosine Wherry' but it doesn't have a sail
option and I'm loathe to go adding to plans on my first try.

thanks in advance

Strip plank or stitch and glue will be just a little easier to build than a
lapstrake, but with half your time spent sanding epoxy. If you like epoxy
and 'glass, go for the strip or stitch - if not do the lapstrake.

Eide

"bear" wrote in message
om...
I've been planning on building a boat next spring but I now have a
friend with a cottage so my plan to build a canoe may turn into
building something that sails.

I've done some preliminary investigation and I like the 'Norwegian
Sailing Pram' by Simon Watts, but frankly the lapstrake construction
looks to be a bit over my head. I have read Kayakcraft and the cedar
strip technique looks more like what I could do well.

I'm not a boat guy so appologies in advance if I write something
incorrect.

This is what I'd like in a boat:

- light enough to car top - I don't want to invest in a trailer
- able to land it on a beach - I think that means I want a dagger
board. The lake at the cottage is shallow (3 feet) for about 50 yards
out
- able to row it well, I'll be rowing it more than sailing through
the marshes etc.
- needs to hold 2 adults and one child, ideally 3 adults
- about 14 feet long - my building space isn't that large

I plan on using it (in order of usage) in an enclosed bay (Burlington
Bay, inside of the bridge), at Long Point (Lake Erie) in the bay and
the marshes.

I like the look of the 'Cosine Wherry' but it doesn't have a sail
option and I'm loathe to go adding to plans on my first try.

thanks in advance

bear ) writes:

- light enough to car top - I don't want to invest in a trailer

pretty well limited to a canoe. light because they are narrow. a boat wide
enought to carry sail will be heavier. canoes are made to carry over
portages. not so sailboats and rowboats. if you're going alone I'd
limit boat weight to 65-70 pounds.

- able to land it on a beach - I think that means I want a dagger
board. The lake at the cottage is shallow (3 feet) for about 50 yards
out
- able to row it well, I'll be rowing it more than sailing through
the marshes etc.
- needs to hold 2 adults and one child, ideally 3 adults
- about 14 feet long - my building space isn't that large

14 ft is usually called a "solo" canoe due to limited load capacity. can carry
two adults and a child but no baggage to speak of.


I plan on using it (in order of usage) in an enclosed bay (Burlington
Bay, inside of the bridge), at Long Point (Lake Erie) in the bay and
the marshes.

I like the look of the 'Cosine Wherry' but it doesn't have a sail
option and I'm loathe to go adding to plans on my first try.

thanks in advance


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

William R. Watt wrote:
bear ) writes:


- light enough to car top - I don't want to invest in a trailer


pretty well limited to a canoe. light because they are narrow. a boat wide

Not necessarily true... Light enough to cartop would be around
125-150lbs. It'll take 2 to get it up there but it'll be
car-toppable... I don't know what a Penguin weighs but I remember
cartopping them.

The compromise will be beam... for a good stable sailboat, you want
plenty of beam. This is going to make it a little tougher to row.

A few ideas...

http://www.boatplans-online.com/prod....php?prod=SH14

and a couple others under small boats - dinghies and small boats -
sailboats.

or, www.clarkcraft.com under sailboats there are several boats from
11-14 ft which look like they would be suitable (i.e. flat enough bottom
for rowing in shallow marshes and capacity for 2 adults or 1 adult and a
kid or 2 and under 150 lbs). There are a couple under dory also.

Ed

--
The spam finally got to me.
To email me, change "spam" to "speak"

sailing/rowing/car-toppable ? how about Steve Redmond's Whisp ...
http://www.sredmond.com/welcome.htm

Hi

(bear) wrote in message
. com...
I've been planning on building a boat next spring but I now have a
friend with a cottage so my plan to build a canoe may turn into
building something that sails.

I've done some preliminary investigation and I like the 'Norwegian
Sailing Pram' by Simon Watts, but frankly the lapstrake construction
looks to be a bit over my head.

Guess you shuld check how easy lapstrake work with modern full-scale
plans and a different attitude ; acturly a lapstrake pram , redesigned
for sail can be build in 25 hours ,and you can find designs where the
planks is not curved but strait planks as you find in the local wood
store. You se some boat designers acturly build ontop the old proud
crafts to modernise these ,so even an amature can profit from modern
CAD options, full-scale plans for building jig and best of all a
garentie while many build and build ontop a tradision bringing safe
and realable small boats for a thousand years, with the lapstrake
technike.
Replace a broken plank without breaking the lot apart, use natural
wood and reconise the true craftmanship of tradisional wooden boats
building , -- then there is no better choice than the easy build
norwegian pram types ; but please remember that if you don't pick one
that is re-designed for sail, you will not get a very good sail
dinghie ,even while having a tradisional bottom shape you will end up
with a boat that proven safe and relaible for centuries and decades.
-------- Now please check what you can perform wothout epoxy , by
checking this link ;

http://w1.1396.telia.com/~u139600113/pricelist.htm

You find a better description with the Products link at this page ;

http://w1.1396.telia.com/~u139600113/pricelist.htm


http://w1.1396.telia.com/~u139600113/

And if you wonder where you can find these plans as free download,
please start at this link ;

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cyber-Boat/

You just check the Files section where the plans will be found.

P.s.
Don't mind the social harasment that is bound to follow this advise,
if you want to chechk how these lapstrake boats look ready build, you
will find foto's at the links provided.

Per Corell
Have a nice day.

Interesting to see how little attention was paid to this fellows
requirements by the people who relied - A couple of further suggestions
http//:www.dixdesign.com and look at his Argie 10 & 15's I have one of each
"bear" wrote in message
om...
I've been planning on building a boat next spring but I now have a
friend with a cottage so my plan to build a canoe may turn into
building something that sails.

I've done some preliminary investigation and I like the 'Norwegian
Sailing Pram' by Simon Watts, but frankly the lapstrake construction
looks to be a bit over my head. I have read Kayakcraft and the cedar
strip technique looks more like what I could do well.

I'm not a boat guy so appologies in advance if I write something
incorrect.

This is what I'd like in a boat:

- light enough to car top - I don't want to invest in a trailer
- able to land it on a beach - I think that means I want a dagger
board. The lake at the cottage is shallow (3 feet) for about 50 yards
out
- able to row it well, I'll be rowing it more than sailing through
the marshes etc.
- needs to hold 2 adults and one child, ideally 3 adults
- about 14 feet long - my building space isn't that large

I plan on using it (in order of usage) in an enclosed bay (Burlington
Bay, inside of the bridge), at Long Point (Lake Erie) in the bay and
the marshes.

I like the look of the 'Cosine Wherry' but it doesn't have a sail
option and I'm loathe to go adding to plans on my first try.

thanks in advance

Phil Bolger (see http://www.hallman.org/bolger/ for background) designed a
lot of boats that might fit your general specification, many of which can be
built fairly easily out of plywood. Some of them look a little strange, some
look quite good. His colleague, Dynamite Payson, sells drawings of some of
the Bolger boats. You can depend on those to be competent boats that will
behave reasonably. He wrote at least five books of drawings and comments.

As an aside, and understanding your "I'm not a boat person comment", let me
do a little teaching. Sailboats want to go sideways. They need either a
keel or some retractable device do prevent this (there are also retractable
keels, but let's not confuse). In retractable devices there are four
choices, dagger boards, centerboards, lee boards, and (for want of a better
name) removable lee boards.

Dagger boards go straight down in a case. Push down to lower, pull up to
raise; usually held by friction. They're very simple (the Sunfish and
Sailfish use them), but have the major disadvantage that they don't pivot,
so if you hit something, either the boat stops or the board (or something
else) breaks.

Centerboards are pivoted at the front in a trunk (same thing, different
shape, as a dagger board case). They usually have a line on the back corner
to raise them. They're a little more complicated than a dagger board and
take a lot more space in the boat, but they come up automatically if you hit
something -- perfect for just sailing up on the beach.

Traditional leeboards are in pairs, one on each side, with a pivot at the
front. You lower the downwind one and water pressure holds it in place.
They're simple, take no space in the boat, but you need two because if you
tried to use the upwind one, the water pressure would tear it off the boat.
You need to switch from one to the other when you come about. The Dutch
built very large craft with traditional leeboards.

Removable leeboards go down like a dagger board. I've seen them with no
outside to their case -- just the hull on one side and a strip fore and aft.
Water pressure holds them in place. If you hit something, they'll usually
pop out.

So, you probably want a centerboard or leeboards, not a dagger board.

Also, in the marshes, rowing can be a pain. You may want a boat you can
paddle or scull. I once built a 14' duckboat that had a tunnel aft so that
you could scull the boat with a hidden oar and not scare the ducks.
Sculling is done with a single oar out the back, with a motion that is both
back and forth and twisting so that the blade always has a positive angle of
attack. After ten minutes practice, you'll be able to do it adequately.


--
Jim Woodward
www.mvFintry.com


..
"Andre Venter" wrote in message
...
Interesting to see how little attention was paid to this fellows
requirements by the people who relied - A couple of further suggestions
http//:www.dixdesign.com and look at his Argie 10 & 15's I have one of
each
"bear" wrote in message
om...
I've been planning on building a boat next spring but I now have a
friend with a cottage so my plan to build a canoe may turn into
building something that sails.

I've done some preliminary investigation and I like the 'Norwegian
Sailing Pram' by Simon Watts, but frankly the lapstrake construction
looks to be a bit over my head. I have read Kayakcraft and the cedar
strip technique looks more like what I could do well.

I'm not a boat guy so appologies in advance if I write something
incorrect.

This is what I'd like in a boat:

- light enough to car top - I don't want to invest in a trailer
- able to land it on a beach - I think that means I want a dagger
board. The lake at the cottage is shallow (3 feet) for about 50 yards
out
- able to row it well, I'll be rowing it more than sailing through
the marshes etc.
- needs to hold 2 adults and one child, ideally 3 adults
- about 14 feet long - my building space isn't that large

I plan on using it (in order of usage) in an enclosed bay (Burlington
Bay, inside of the bridge), at Long Point (Lake Erie) in the bay and
the marshes.

I like the look of the 'Cosine Wherry' but it doesn't have a sail
option and I'm loathe to go adding to plans on my first try.

thanks in advance