Not exactly related to "building" but..

Im thinking about getting a used small sailboat. I have experience
sailing (windsurfing and ice boating) but very little with sailboats..
So here is what I think Im looking for..

* I want something very easy to get in and out of the water and set up.
Im thinking something around 18 foot with a retractable keel? or water
balast might be good. I helped someone launch what I think was a
Catalina 24 and it was a nice sailing boat but a little more hassle in
the launch and set up than I would like (trailer had to be pretty deep
for the keel and the mast looked like it required 2 people. Id like to
be able to get it in/out of the water and setup by myself.

* Id like to have a "little cabin" on the boat

* One reason I want this boat is because it will live at a lake which
can have some high winds that come up fairly quickly. So Im hoping that
the boat is still safe to motor around with say a 4 hp outboard with the
sail taken down.

* I dont care at all about speed but Id like to be able to to reasonably
safely have four adults in the boat.

* can you tip over a boat such as Im looking for? If so, is this a big
deal?

Any recomendations or comments?

Regards,

Wally Hall
Denver

What you describe is often referred to as a "weekender" or "pocket
cruiser". They are under 20 ft and good for 2 people for a weekend, 1
person for a week or two. Some try 2 adults and 2 kids but the kids have
to sleep out in the cockpit with the bugs.

They are popular boats and since people buy them as starter boats and
trade up there are lots of used ones on the market. You can find surveys
of them in books like "Frugal Yachting".

They are mostly fibreglass construction so they are heavy. Even a 15 foot
undecked "fast and light" fibreglass racing dingy weights 250 lb so it's not
easy for one person to wrestle around. That's what the crew is for.

try www.boat-links.com


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 13:49:45 +0000, Walt wrote:

Not exactly related to "building" but..

Im thinking about getting a used small sailboat. I have experience
sailing (windsurfing and ice boating) but very little with sailboats..
So here is what I think Im looking for..

* I want something very easy to get in and out of the water and set up.
Im thinking something around 18 foot with a retractable keel? or water
balast might be good. I helped someone launch what I think was a
Catalina 24 and it was a nice sailing boat but a little more hassle in
the launch and set up than I would like (trailer had to be pretty deep
for the keel and the mast looked like it required 2 people. Id like to
be able to get it in/out of the water and setup by myself.

* Id like to have a "little cabin" on the boat

* One reason I want this boat is because it will live at a lake which
can have some high winds that come up fairly quickly. So Im hoping that
the boat is still safe to motor around with say a 4 hp outboard with the
sail taken down.

* I dont care at all about speed but Id like to be able to to reasonably
safely have four adults in the boat.

* can you tip over a boat such as Im looking for? If so, is this a big
deal?


Keel boats are usually designed so that they can't capsize (tip over) in
normal conditions. If they do capsize, they usually don't stay that way,
as they are very unstable upside down. However, if a typical keelboat
doesn't right itself very quickly, it is liable to fill up with water and
sink.

Probably you don't have to worry about all this stuff unless the lake you
are talking about is fairly large. Wind by itself won't capsize or sink a
keelboat. It is the seas and wind together that sink boats, and a small
lake can't develop large seas unless you are talking about hurricane force
winds.

Just now, the lyrics from the song "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald"
come to mind. ;-)

Any recomendations or comments?

Regards,

Wally Hall
Denver


--Mac

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 13:49:45 GMT, Walt wrote:

Not exactly related to "building" but..

Im thinking about getting a used small sailboat. I have experience
sailing (windsurfing and ice boating) but very little with sailboats..
So here is what I think Im looking for..

* I want something very easy to get in and out of the water and set up.
Im thinking something around 18 foot with a retractable keel? or water
balast might be good. I helped someone launch what I think was a
Catalina 24 and it was a nice sailing boat but a little more hassle in
the launch and set up than I would like (trailer had to be pretty deep
for the keel and the mast looked like it required 2 people. Id like to
be able to get it in/out of the water and setup by myself.

* Id like to have a "little cabin" on the boat

* One reason I want this boat is because it will live at a lake which
can have some high winds that come up fairly quickly. So Im hoping that
the boat is still safe to motor around with say a 4 hp outboard with the
sail taken down.

* I dont care at all about speed but Id like to be able to to reasonably
safely have four adults in the boat.

* can you tip over a boat such as Im looking for? If so, is this a big
deal?

Any recomendations or comments?

Regards,

Wally Hall
Denver

Drop the "little cabin" idea and you will broaden your choices. Lots
of centerboard daysailers have been produced since the beginnings of
fiberglass that will carry four adults and a tiny outboard, and
perhaps a picnic cooler.

An old Lightning, a centerboard Rhodes 19, O'Day Daysailor, Flying
Scot, Highlander would all fit the remainder of your requirements,
very loosely.

Stepping the mast alone would not be the usual procedure with anything
that size, but you could rig some aids that could be carried on the
trailer.

Any centerboarder can, in principle, capsize. Those as big as I have
listed are very unlikely to do so, but are not convenient to
self-rescue if they do.




Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a


MOM CASTS TOT IN CEMENT

Most experts voice cautious optimism

Rodney Myrvaagnes wrote:
On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 13:49:45 GMT, Walt wrote:

Not exactly related to "building" but..

Im thinking about getting a used small sailboat. I have experience
sailing (windsurfing and ice boating) but very little with
sailboats..
So here is what I think Im looking for..

* I want something very easy to get in and out of the water and set
up.
Im thinking something around 18 foot with a retractable keel? or
water
balast might be good. I helped someone launch what I think was a
Catalina 24 and it was a nice sailing boat but a little more hassle
in
the launch and set up than I would like (trailer had to be pretty
deep
for the keel and the mast looked like it required 2 people. Id like
to
be able to get it in/out of the water and setup by myself.

* Id like to have a "little cabin" on the boat

* One reason I want this boat is because it will live at a lake
which
can have some high winds that come up fairly quickly. So Im hoping
that
the boat is still safe to motor around with say a 4 hp outboard with
the
sail taken down.

* I dont care at all about speed but Id like to be able to to
reasonably
safely have four adults in the boat.

* can you tip over a boat such as Im looking for? If so, is this a
big
deal?

Any recomendations or comments?

Regards,

Wally Hall
Denver

Drop the "little cabin" idea and you will broaden your choices. Lots
of centerboard daysailers have been produced since the beginnings of
fiberglass that will carry four adults and a tiny outboard, and
perhaps a picnic cooler.

An old Lightning, a centerboard Rhodes 19, O'Day Daysailor, Flying
Scot, Highlander would all fit the remainder of your requirements,
very loosely.

Stepping the mast alone would not be the usual procedure with
anything
that size, but you could rig some aids that could be carried on the
trailer.

Any centerboarder can, in principle, capsize. Those as big as I have
listed are very unlikely to do so, but are not convenient to
self-rescue if they do.




Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a


MOM CASTS TOT IN CEMENT

Most experts voice cautious optimism

Sounds like you would really be happy with a Precision 18. It has all
the proper
attributes you want.

Frank

Walt,
What WILL fit your list of requirements {almost exactly} is a West Wight
Potter 15.

We have had a Potter P-19 for about 15 years. My thoughts were to do about
the same as you suggest. However, we shortly found that it was a LOT more
effort then expected to get her set-up and launched. At least for a three
hour drive {each way} for only about 2 hours sailing. Anyway, we've kept her
in a slip at a couple of marina's, and she is now on a mooring at a club on
the Delaware River.

A few years ago I was able to 'snap up' a P-15 for a REAL GOOD price.
Although she is only 4 feet shorter than the 19, it's like a geometric
progression. With the aft end on a couple of tires, I was able to actually
LIFT the ENTIRE boat, by 'hand' from the area of the 'towing' eye !! {we
were putting her on a new trailer}. I hadn't planned to do this . . . I was
going to 'work' the trailer under her a little bit at a time. This boat has
been around for a LOT of years. She is famous for making voyages across the
North Sea, and the Pacific from California to Hawaii. There is even
documented evidence of someone living aboard one for 3 years !

The point is she has a cabin, with 'bunks' for two 6 footers, storage space,
and a fully retractable STEEL keel. She is what is called a 'character' boat
.. . . one of those that you either love or hate. There is a VERY active
'owners Group' and MANY possible personal modifications. There are a couple
for sale now . . . mentioned on the Group. }. Also,
take a look at the manufacturers site. Don't have it handy, do a Google
search for 'International Marine' in southern California.

Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop

"Walt" wrote in message ...
Not exactly related to "building" but..

Im thinking about getting a used small sailboat. . . .

If you'd like to look at some small boat numbers (weight and dimensions)
I put some in the description of a boat I was designing in a file called
www.ncf.ca/~ag384/Solo15.htm. I'm pretty sure you'll find the names of the
book I took them from there as well.

Someone mentioned a Potter 15. The fellow who wrote "Frugal Yachting"
sails one.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

Ron Magen wrote:

Walt,
What WILL fit your list of requirements {almost exactly} is a West Wight
Potter 15.

We have had a Potter P-19 for about 15 years. My thoughts were to do about
the same as you suggest. However, we shortly found that it was a LOT more
effort then expected to get her set-up and launched. At least for a three
hour drive {each way} for only about 2 hours sailing. Anyway, we've kept her
in a slip at a couple of marina's, and she is now on a mooring at a club on
the Delaware River.


.......


I seem to collect sailboats, kayaks, etc. and have 20. I looked for a Potter but
couldn't find one 'cheap' - lots of loyal Potter folks and strong owner group.
Seems like a boat you cannot go wrong with and can easily resell...

paul oman
progressive epoxy polymers

Much appreciate the responses!

The place where I would keep this boat is about a mile from the lake and
there is a power line crossing the road with a 20 foot clearance. There is
another sailboat in the area who keeps the mast rigged and its clearly
higher than 20 foot (as is almost any boat I was looking at) so Im guessing
he must temporarilly "droop" the mast to transport it (on the trailer) under
the power line. Seems to me keeping the mast rigged and just dropping it for
the mile drive would make the setup a lot easier. One concern for leaving
the mast rigged all the time where the boat will be parked is the risk
lighting strike but I beleive this will be very small since the boat and
mast will not be grounded and there are taller trees around the boat.

Also, seems that I have a lot more options if I can accept a fixed keel and
this raises how high the boat sits on the trailer. The boat launch at this
lake has a low slope so Im concerned that this would make getting the boat
on and off the trailer fairly difficult..

This has little to do with this topic or boatbuilding but here are some
pictures of the lake in Colorado where this sailboat will be used:
http://analogengineering.com/elevenmile/lake_shots/

Regards,

Wally Hall
Denver

Walt wrote:

Not exactly related to "building" but..

Im thinking about getting a used small sailboat. I have experience
sailing (windsurfing and ice boating) but very little with sailboats..
So here is what I think Im looking for..

* I want something very easy to get in and out of the water and set up.
Im thinking something around 18 foot with a retractable keel? or water
balast might be good. I helped someone launch what I think was a
Catalina 24 and it was a nice sailing boat but a little more hassle in
the launch and set up than I would like (trailer had to be pretty deep
for the keel and the mast looked like it required 2 people. Id like to
be able to get it in/out of the water and setup by myself.

* Id like to have a "little cabin" on the boat

* One reason I want this boat is because it will live at a lake which
can have some high winds that come up fairly quickly. So Im hoping that
the boat is still safe to motor around with say a 4 hp outboard with the
sail taken down.

* I dont care at all about speed but Id like to be able to to reasonably
safely have four adults in the boat.

* can you tip over a boat such as Im looking for? If so, is this a big
deal?

Any recomendations or comments?

Regards,

Wally Hall
Denver