-How much is to buy a 55 ft alloy hull of a blue water cruiser for further
development (just hull, pure alloy no equipment)?
-How much is to equipe it only with wooden furnitures?
-I ask because its easy to find prices for electronics, engine etc. but
couldnt find any information concerning above.
-How meny % can be saved or wasted on buying things separately and commision
experts to put things together and doing minor works myself

I am 29 and would like to spend my 40th birthday on the yacht which will
become my home when I`ll retire. 11 years is plenty of time and I am not in
the hurry

Tomek,
Here's the deal. The hull is the least expensive part of your project. The
woodwork is the next least expensive cost. The greatest cost of maintaining
the boat is replacing all the junk parts builders use to sell their hulls.
For a boat of that size 11 years is not plenty of time. You might complete
that if everything goes to plan and you are prepared to sacrifice all your
free time and vacations. Very few people are or can afford to do so for
family obligations and the like. Just to give you an idea, the engineering
inside the hull alone will be in excess of 4000 manhours. If you have all
the skills, tools and equipment on hand in time. That equates to 4 years for
you if you do nothing else and you have the personal discipline of the pope.
I'm not trying to discourage you, just inform you of the immense task a boat
that size is. I know, I did it. Ask Glen or some of the other guys that are
doing it on this group.
Steve

"Tomek" wrote in message
...
-How much is to buy a 55 ft alloy hull of a blue water cruiser for further
development (just hull, pure alloy no equipment)?
-How much is to equipe it only with wooden furnitures?
-I ask because its easy to find prices for electronics, engine etc. but
couldnt find any information concerning above.
-How meny % can be saved or wasted on buying things separately and
commision
experts to put things together and doing minor works myself

I am 29 and would like to spend my 40th birthday on the yacht which will
become my home when I`ll retire. 11 years is plenty of time and I am not
in
the hurry

Tomek,
I have been in the process of building a Roberts 53G. I started from
the bare plans and had to do all the work alone. You won't believe how
hard it is to find people willing to work (a four letter word here in
Arkansas). I was lucky enough to find some latinos who give an honest
days work at a fair price to do the roughing out of the inside
building.

I started in August 1991 and as I said I started from the ground up. I
have a little over 1900 hours with a lot of lost time due to injuries.
This is NOT a cheap operation. At present I have put in just over
$107,000 into it. That includes an engine and many more items that are
required on a boat. If all goes as planed the boat will be in the water
within the next 12 months.

If I had it to do over, I would just but a boat and go sailing.
Good luck,
Leonard

I will have to agree with Leonard and had similar experience in building my
last boat. It is an Ingrid 38 (from bare hull).
http://www.hctc.com/~esteve/hull53.htm

Since I started with a bare fiberglass hull, I would imagine the process
would be very similar to your plans with an alloy hull.

A point I might add is the temptation to purchase electronics gear before
you are ready for launch.. The cost of elex. drops considerably each year
and as launch dates (year) slip year after year the crisp new electronics of
several years ago sit in the shelf and loose their value. My boat was
launched 3 years ago and I'm already upgrading. Resist the boat show
promotions/sales and the temptation.

As Leonard points out, it is difficult to find reliable help and even family
members begin to loose interest when a project goes on for years. Most
non-boaters can't imagine working on a boat for 7 years, as I did.

I did 99.9% of my own work, including welding and machine shop work. Only at
the end, I farmed out the bow pulpit to a shop who's owner was (suppose) to
be a friend and needed the work. Paid $1000 for it and he screwed it up and
I ended up doing it over myself. (no longer a friend)

I also farmed out the rigging swedging since that required special tools
for rod rigging.

Admittedly, work goes slooooower when you do everything for yourself and all
work stops when ever you sit down for a cool drink or go to town to get
material.

When ever you have someone else performing a task for you, it is difficult
to convey what is in your "minds-eye" to another.

I have no regrets, I just wish I could have put "Old-on-Hold" during the
process.. I had built a 36 ft. planked hull in the early '60s and even
though I was in the navy at the time, I made much faster progress. I
attribute that to my youth and the ability to work 18 hour days.

Aside from the above, I encourage you to learn all the crafts involved and
be prepared for the 'loooong' process.

My experience and opinions. FWIW

Good luck.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions


"Leonard" wrote in message
oups.com...
Tomek,
I have been in the process of building a Roberts 53G. I started from
the bare plans and had to do all the work alone. You won't believe how
hard it is to find people willing to work (a four letter word here in
Arkansas). I was lucky enough to find some latinos who give an honest
days work at a fair price to do the roughing out of the inside
building.

I started in August 1991 and as I said I started from the ground up. I
have a little over 1900 hours with a lot of lost time due to injuries.
This is NOT a cheap operation. At present I have put in just over
$107,000 into it. That includes an engine and many more items that are
required on a boat. If all goes as planed the boat will be in the water
within the next 12 months.

If I had it to do over, I would just but a boat and go sailing.
Good luck,
Leonard

There are a whole bunch of guys who've built great boats from kits or
plans all over North America. Some of them are crap, others scrap.
Many will never see the water. But a fair number are very well done,
very well thought out, and (particularly with the metal boats), very
well prepped and coated against corrosion.

The trouble is that such boats frequently get to the 90% finished
stage (like roughed in benches and cabinetry, but with mast bought and
engine running) and the man who lovingly started the job has gotten
too old, sick and/or tired to finish it.

Or too old, sick and/or tired to sail such a bg, heavy boat.

Or his wife and family aren't behind him and want to get rid of the
"white elephant" in the yard in favour of a cute gazebo and an
extended car port.

Want to know my dirty little secret? I will buy one of those boats
for a song before I'm 50, pay some pro to do a custom FUNCTIONAL
interior using just part of the money I saved not buying a brokerage
boat, and we will go cruising in five years, not when I'm 68 and not
keen on getting into a lazarette to find a dropped wrench.

The boat ads are full of them. Most aren't worth finishing; a prime
few are better than 90% of new boats in terms of layout, logical
stowage, access and seaworthiness.

I don't want to burst any bubbles, but if you are a 28 year old
welder, by all means build a boat. You might be finished in 20 years.
It makes more sense in some cases to complete a stranger's "baby" to
perfection than to put in a few thousand hours learning as you go, or
becoming a slave to a dream.

Better to go sailing sooner than later.

My two cents,

R.

On 25 Jan 2005 06:38:59 -0800, "Leonard" wrote:

Tomek,
I have been in the process of building a Roberts 53G. I started from
the bare plans and had to do all the work alone. You won't believe how
hard it is to find people willing to work (a four letter word here in
Arkansas). I was lucky enough to find some latinos who give an honest
days work at a fair price to do the roughing out of the inside
building.

I started in August 1991 and as I said I started from the ground up. I
have a little over 1900 hours with a lot of lost time due to injuries.
This is NOT a cheap operation. At present I have put in just over
$107,000 into it. That includes an engine and many more items that are
required on a boat. If all goes as planed the boat will be in the water
within the next 12 months.

If I had it to do over, I would just but a boat and go sailing.
Good luck,
Leonard

On 25 Jan 2005 06:38:59 -0800, "Leonard" vaguely
proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Ahhh! But you have to rmember that you have _built_ one now....

I feel the same, sort of, having built. I probably would do it again.
But you have to allow for the achievement factor.
If I had it to do over, I would just but a boat and go sailing.
Good luck,
Leonard

On 25 Jan 2005 06:38:59 -0800, "Leonard" vaguely
proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Tomek,
I have been in the process of building a Roberts 53G. I started from
the bare plans and had to do all the work alone. You won't believe how
hard it is to find people willing to work (a four letter word here in
Arkansas). I was lucky enough to find some latinos who give an honest
days work at a fair price to do the roughing out of the inside
building.

hmm...would _you_ work on somebody else's dream for what you paid
those guys?

I started in August 1991 and as I said I started from the ground up. I
have a little over 1900 hours with a lot of lost time due to injuries.

Injuries while building? Onsite injuries?

Old Nick,

I really don't know what you are asking. As stated, finding people to
to do what you would call a side job is hard. Most people are looking
for long term employment with benifits.

One gent accepted the job of welding the outside seams on the steel
plates. A few days after he was to start, he called and decided it was
too much work for him. (he only works one day a week at his regular
job) So I did it myself.

As far as "hmm...would _you_ work on somebody else's dream for what you
paid those guys?" $15per hour x 3 people x 8 hours a day works out to a
nice weekend job. If I could help someone out at the same rete, you bet
I would. His dream or not is not the question. Finding workers is.

To answer your "Injuries while building? Onsite injuries?". Yes and no.
I am a retired Marine with a 60% service connected disibility. You
figure out which is which. When you come up with an answer let me know.
Leonard

On 27 Jan 2005 06:57:39 -0800, "Leonard" vaguely
proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email
I really don't know what you are asking. As stated, finding people to
to do what you would call a side job is hard. Most people are looking
for long term employment with benifits.

Yep. So you have to pay the rates, or get the latinos.


One gent accepted the job of welding the outside seams on the steel
plates. A few days after he was to start, he called and decided it was
too much work for him. (he only works one day a week at his regular
job) So I did it myself.

I can see that would be irritating. But maybe he realised he was not
getting enough out of it. Maybe not.

As far as "hmm...would _you_ work on somebody else's dream for what you
paid those guys?" $15per hour x 3 people x 8 hours a day works out to a
nice weekend job. If I could help someone out at the same rete, you bet
I would. His dream or not is not the question. Finding workers is.

Work for $15 per hour was what I meant. Not times 3 guys.

The dream is at issue. There is a lot of difference between working on
something you believe on and something you have tyo do for the money.

These guys are not there "to help you out". They are not your pals,
and nor are they charitable institutiuons.

Finding workers is usually possible if you pay enough. Before you
complain about what people want, think about whether you would work
for the same pay, on a job you were not interested in beyond the
money.

Tomek,

I would wildly guess that you could have a hull built with
- 3-4000hrs of work at $x/hr
- about 15 tons of material

This gives you a sum which is about 15-25% of the total costs. The woodwork would be
another 20-25%.
Or, the price of material and equipment in professionally built custom boat is about
30-40% of the total price. The rest is work at $x/hr. The more you can do yourself
(without standing in pro´s way) the more you can save. Of course, you can count on paying
at least 20% more for anything than boatyard.
The total hours to build a custom 55ft blue water cruiser could be about 15000 hours, when
done by professionals.
You can save by spending your time looking for good deals on materials and equipment and
not buying electronics, the engine and gearbox until last possible moment.
I know one boat builder in Finland who built a 60ft GRP sailboat in ten years working
full-time on his boat. He did absolutely everything by himself: hull, hydraulics, woodwork
and even GRP mast!

Best regards,

Heikki
Limimetalli.com


Tomek wrote:

-How much is to buy a 55 ft alloy hull of a blue water cruiser for further development
(just hull, pure alloy no equipment)?
-How much is to equipe it only with wooden furnitures?
-I ask because its easy to find prices for electronics, engine etc. but couldnt find
any information concerning above.
-How meny % can be saved or wasted on buying things separately and commision experts to
put things together and doing minor works myself

I am 29 and would like to spend my 40th birthday on the yacht which will become my home
when I`ll retire. 11 years is plenty of time and I am not in the hurry