-How much is to buy a 55 ft alloy hull of a blue water cruiser for further
development (just hull, pure alloy no equipment)?
-How much is to equipe it only with wooden furnitures?
-I ask because its easy to find prices for electronics, engine etc. but
couldnt find any information concerning above.
-How meny % can be saved or wasted on buying things separately and commision
experts to put things together and doing minor works myself

I am 29 and would like to spend my 40th birthday on the yacht which will
become my home when I`ll retire. 11 years is plenty of time and I am not in
the hurry

Tomek,
Here's the deal. The hull is the least expensive part of your project. The
woodwork is the next least expensive cost. The greatest cost of maintaining
the boat is replacing all the junk parts builders use to sell their hulls.
For a boat of that size 11 years is not plenty of time. You might complete
that if everything goes to plan and you are prepared to sacrifice all your
free time and vacations. Very few people are or can afford to do so for
family obligations and the like. Just to give you an idea, the engineering
inside the hull alone will be in excess of 4000 manhours. If you have all
the skills, tools and equipment on hand in time. That equates to 4 years for
you if you do nothing else and you have the personal discipline of the pope.
I'm not trying to discourage you, just inform you of the immense task a boat
that size is. I know, I did it. Ask Glen or some of the other guys that are
doing it on this group.
Steve

"Tomek" wrote in message
...
-How much is to buy a 55 ft alloy hull of a blue water cruiser for further
development (just hull, pure alloy no equipment)?
-How much is to equipe it only with wooden furnitures?
-I ask because its easy to find prices for electronics, engine etc. but
couldnt find any information concerning above.
-How meny % can be saved or wasted on buying things separately and
commision
experts to put things together and doing minor works myself

I am 29 and would like to spend my 40th birthday on the yacht which will
become my home when I`ll retire. 11 years is plenty of time and I am not
in
the hurry

Tomek,
I have been in the process of building a Roberts 53G. I started from
the bare plans and had to do all the work alone. You won't believe how
hard it is to find people willing to work (a four letter word here in
Arkansas). I was lucky enough to find some latinos who give an honest
days work at a fair price to do the roughing out of the inside
building.

I started in August 1991 and as I said I started from the ground up. I
have a little over 1900 hours with a lot of lost time due to injuries.
This is NOT a cheap operation. At present I have put in just over
$107,000 into it. That includes an engine and many more items that are
required on a boat. If all goes as planed the boat will be in the water
within the next 12 months.

If I had it to do over, I would just but a boat and go sailing.
Good luck,
Leonard

I will have to agree with Leonard and had similar experience in building my
last boat. It is an Ingrid 38 (from bare hull).
http://www.hctc.com/~esteve/hull53.htm

Since I started with a bare fiberglass hull, I would imagine the process
would be very similar to your plans with an alloy hull.

A point I might add is the temptation to purchase electronics gear before
you are ready for launch.. The cost of elex. drops considerably each year
and as launch dates (year) slip year after year the crisp new electronics of
several years ago sit in the shelf and loose their value. My boat was
launched 3 years ago and I'm already upgrading. Resist the boat show
promotions/sales and the temptation.

As Leonard points out, it is difficult to find reliable help and even family
members begin to loose interest when a project goes on for years. Most
non-boaters can't imagine working on a boat for 7 years, as I did.

I did 99.9% of my own work, including welding and machine shop work. Only at
the end, I farmed out the bow pulpit to a shop who's owner was (suppose) to
be a friend and needed the work. Paid $1000 for it and he screwed it up and
I ended up doing it over myself. (no longer a friend)

I also farmed out the rigging swedging since that required special tools
for rod rigging.

Admittedly, work goes slooooower when you do everything for yourself and all
work stops when ever you sit down for a cool drink or go to town to get
material.

When ever you have someone else performing a task for you, it is difficult
to convey what is in your "minds-eye" to another.

I have no regrets, I just wish I could have put "Old-on-Hold" during the
process.. I had built a 36 ft. planked hull in the early '60s and even
though I was in the navy at the time, I made much faster progress. I
attribute that to my youth and the ability to work 18 hour days.

Aside from the above, I encourage you to learn all the crafts involved and
be prepared for the 'loooong' process.

My experience and opinions. FWIW

Good luck.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions


"Leonard" wrote in message
oups.com...
Tomek,
I have been in the process of building a Roberts 53G. I started from
the bare plans and had to do all the work alone. You won't believe how
hard it is to find people willing to work (a four letter word here in
Arkansas). I was lucky enough to find some latinos who give an honest
days work at a fair price to do the roughing out of the inside
building.

I started in August 1991 and as I said I started from the ground up. I
have a little over 1900 hours with a lot of lost time due to injuries.
This is NOT a cheap operation. At present I have put in just over
$107,000 into it. That includes an engine and many more items that are
required on a boat. If all goes as planed the boat will be in the water
within the next 12 months.

If I had it to do over, I would just but a boat and go sailing.
Good luck,
Leonard

There are a whole bunch of guys who've built great boats from kits or
plans all over North America. Some of them are crap, others scrap.
Many will never see the water. But a fair number are very well done,
very well thought out, and (particularly with the metal boats), very
well prepped and coated against corrosion.

The trouble is that such boats frequently get to the 90% finished
stage (like roughed in benches and cabinetry, but with mast bought and
engine running) and the man who lovingly started the job has gotten
too old, sick and/or tired to finish it.

Or too old, sick and/or tired to sail such a bg, heavy boat.

Or his wife and family aren't behind him and want to get rid of the
"white elephant" in the yard in favour of a cute gazebo and an
extended car port.

Want to know my dirty little secret? I will buy one of those boats
for a song before I'm 50, pay some pro to do a custom FUNCTIONAL
interior using just part of the money I saved not buying a brokerage
boat, and we will go cruising in five years, not when I'm 68 and not
keen on getting into a lazarette to find a dropped wrench.

The boat ads are full of them. Most aren't worth finishing; a prime
few are better than 90% of new boats in terms of layout, logical
stowage, access and seaworthiness.

I don't want to burst any bubbles, but if you are a 28 year old
welder, by all means build a boat. You might be finished in 20 years.
It makes more sense in some cases to complete a stranger's "baby" to
perfection than to put in a few thousand hours learning as you go, or
becoming a slave to a dream.

Better to go sailing sooner than later.

My two cents,

R.

On 25 Jan 2005 06:38:59 -0800, "Leonard" wrote:

Tomek,
I have been in the process of building a Roberts 53G. I started from
the bare plans and had to do all the work alone. You won't believe how
hard it is to find people willing to work (a four letter word here in
Arkansas). I was lucky enough to find some latinos who give an honest
days work at a fair price to do the roughing out of the inside
building.

I started in August 1991 and as I said I started from the ground up. I
have a little over 1900 hours with a lot of lost time due to injuries.
This is NOT a cheap operation. At present I have put in just over
$107,000 into it. That includes an engine and many more items that are
required on a boat. If all goes as planed the boat will be in the water
within the next 12 months.

If I had it to do over, I would just but a boat and go sailing.
Good luck,
Leonard

Tomek,

I would wildly guess that you could have a hull built with
- 3-4000hrs of work at $x/hr
- about 15 tons of material

This gives you a sum which is about 15-25% of the total costs. The woodwork would be
another 20-25%.
Or, the price of material and equipment in professionally built custom boat is about
30-40% of the total price. The rest is work at $x/hr. The more you can do yourself
(without standing in pro´s way) the more you can save. Of course, you can count on paying
at least 20% more for anything than boatyard.
The total hours to build a custom 55ft blue water cruiser could be about 15000 hours, when
done by professionals.
You can save by spending your time looking for good deals on materials and equipment and
not buying electronics, the engine and gearbox until last possible moment.
I know one boat builder in Finland who built a 60ft GRP sailboat in ten years working
full-time on his boat. He did absolutely everything by himself: hull, hydraulics, woodwork
and even GRP mast!

Best regards,

Heikki
Limimetalli.com


Tomek wrote:

-How much is to buy a 55 ft alloy hull of a blue water cruiser for further development
(just hull, pure alloy no equipment)?
-How much is to equipe it only with wooden furnitures?
-I ask because its easy to find prices for electronics, engine etc. but couldnt find
any information concerning above.
-How meny % can be saved or wasted on buying things separately and commision experts to
put things together and doing minor works myself

I am 29 and would like to spend my 40th birthday on the yacht which will become my home
when I`ll retire. 11 years is plenty of time and I am not in the hurry

"Heikki" wrote in message
...
Tomek,


snipe

(without standing in pro´s way) the more you can save. Of course, you can
count on paying at least 20% more for anything than boatyard.

snipe

You can save by spending your time looking for good deals on materials and
equipment and not buying electronics, the engine and gearbox until last
possible moment.


It is true that the boat yard get a better price than the average boater,
but they then turn around and mark everything up to retail list price.

I strongly recommend approaching several wholesale/retail suppliers, telling
them of the magnitude of your project and get a wholesale or builders
account. With West Marine that would be a Port Supply account and with Boat
US (it was) Boat America account.

Here in the Seattle area Fisheries Supply has commercial accounts that give
you priced that are as much as 25-40% below retail. They even provide a
special catalog/confidential price list. Many cruiser open a commercial cash
account while outfitting to take advantage of this..

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

On 25 Jan 2005 06:38:59 -0800, "Leonard" vaguely
proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Ahhh! But you have to rmember that you have _built_ one now....

I feel the same, sort of, having built. I probably would do it again.
But you have to allow for the achievement factor.
If I had it to do over, I would just but a boat and go sailing.
Good luck,
Leonard

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 23:21:41 +0100, "Tomek"
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Tough love here....

There are two parts to boats; building and buying. They are usually
vastly different kettles of fish.

I AM NOT SAYING DON'T BUILD. I unserstand the need in some guys. Been
there, on a smaller scale, several times.

* a 55ft boat is quite large, unless you are planning a family
liveaboard (and that's another story again). Most guys build 35-40ft,
that I saw when building in amateur boatyards.
* your cost request means little if we don't know where you are.
* have you built _any_ boats? If not, either do so, starting small, or
walk away.
* have you _sailed_ boats?
* Do you want to build or use a boat?
* Have you checked the 2ndhand market? You will not build cheaper. You
can make a reasonable purcahse and sell it if circumstances permit.
* 10 years is not "taking it easy" on aboat that big. Someone
mentioned 15000 hours. That's 3-4 years of 10 hour days by a _skilled_
worker.
* do you realise how much that boat will keep you poor, if you have to
keep it in good condsition until you retire? I estimate maybe 10% (?)
of built cost, average, per annum. It may only be 5%. But that's still
a lot of money. Don't worry about "your time", because you can be time
poor as well.

If you really want to _BUILD_ a boat, and have already done a few more
modest projects, then go ahead. I understand the feeling and would
never stand in your way.

But don't expect to save money, or time, or to be sailing. Do expect
to get hated by anyone close to you. Do expect to either be very
careful, or to be injured or health-affected in some way by the
project, mentally or physically. Do expect to get thoroughly
disheartened halfway through. be ready to be honest enough to realise
when you are beaten, and then be ready for somebody to buy from you at
a bargain, if at all.

If you want to own and _use_ a boat, buy one. Go through all the
costings, then start saving money into an account at the rate you
would have spent on the boat. I bet you can buy one before you would
have finished building. Buy a house and rent it out. Sell it ten years
from now and buy a boat G

-How much is to buy a 55 ft alloy hull of a blue water cruiser for further
development (just hull, pure alloy no equipment)?
-How much is to equipe it only with wooden furnitures?
-I ask because its easy to find prices for electronics, engine etc. but
couldnt find any information concerning above.
-How meny % can be saved or wasted on buying things separately and commision
experts to put things together and doing minor works myself

I am 29 and would like to spend my 40th birthday on the yacht which will
become my home when I`ll retire. 11 years is plenty of time and I am not in
the hurry

On 25 Jan 2005 06:38:59 -0800, "Leonard" vaguely
proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Tomek,
I have been in the process of building a Roberts 53G. I started from
the bare plans and had to do all the work alone. You won't believe how
hard it is to find people willing to work (a four letter word here in
Arkansas). I was lucky enough to find some latinos who give an honest
days work at a fair price to do the roughing out of the inside
building.

hmm...would _you_ work on somebody else's dream for what you paid
those guys?

I started in August 1991 and as I said I started from the ground up. I
have a little over 1900 hours with a lot of lost time due to injuries.

Injuries while building? Onsite injuries?