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Old July 30th 10, 05:50 PM posted to rec.boats.building
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Posts: 33
Default the pancake skiff - episode 1

I have made a Freeship model of the hull I am interested in.

page with file link-
http://www.norcom2000.com/users/dcim...oat_makin.html

-or Tiny-
http://tinyurl.com/2g8h8f8

This is not the 100% final version, just a close approximation. The idea
is basically a extra-wide rowboat hull with a very flat bottom. There
will be a flat sealed floor set 6" above the hull bottom on frames
spaced every foot.

This is a inland/fla****er boat only.

I would get it rated for a small motor, 5 HP I think. Not very fast, but
as light & broad as the hull is, it's just not going to be safe going
fast anyway. Other 14" boats seem to be running 20-30 HP regularly. 10
MPH is okay for this, I just need a motor that's "faster than rowing"
while being and "less effort than rowing".

One 14" commercially-made boat I found used 2mm (~.078") for the hull, I
dunno what alloy. I have no idea how thick to go for the floor. I think
the usual sheet the local metals supplier has on hand is 5052.

-------

,,,,Coincidentally [if you are a USA poster] I cannot find out how to
rate a home-built boat for horsepower on the USCG website. I found the
home-builder's handbook stuff, they go into all the math to find hull
displacement and determine gear and passenger capacity and they have a
table giving weights for engines of increasing sizes,,,,, but they say
nothing about how to decide how much power to hang on a boat. Is there a
formula for this, or is it just--you ask for as much as you want, and
they make the final call?
~

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Old July 31st 10, 01:33 AM posted to rec.boats.building
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Posts: 321
Default the pancake skiff - episode 1

On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 11:50:17 -0500, DougC
wrote:

I have made a Freeship model of the hull I am interested in.

page with file link-
http://www.norcom2000.com/users/dcim...oat_makin.html

-or Tiny-
http://tinyurl.com/2g8h8f8

This is not the 100% final version, just a close approximation. The idea
is basically a extra-wide rowboat hull with a very flat bottom. There
will be a flat sealed floor set 6" above the hull bottom on frames
spaced every foot.

This is a inland/fla****er boat only.

Your URL links to a site that provides a ZIP file which expands to be
a FBM file. My system doesn't read fbm files.

I would get it rated for a small motor, 5 HP I think. Not very fast, but
as light & broad as the hull is, it's just not going to be safe going
fast anyway. Other 14" boats seem to be running 20-30 HP regularly. 10
MPH is okay for this, I just need a motor that's "faster than rowing"
while being and "less effort than rowing".


Why do you want to "get it rated" for a motor? Are you going to
manufacture it commercially?

One 14" commercially-made boat I found used 2mm (~.078") for the hull, I
dunno what alloy. I have no idea how thick to go for the floor. I think
the usual sheet the local metals supplier has on hand is 5052.

You can't equate length and skin thickness. You need to first develop
the actual structure of the boat and then decide the force which must
be opposed by the skin. To exaggerate - a boat with no formers or
stringers depending solely on the skin for strength, i.e., monocoque
construction, would require a totally different material then one
that used a "egg crate" type of structure..

-------

,,,,Coincidentally [if you are a USA poster] I cannot find out how to
rate a home-built boat for horsepower on the USCG website. I found the
home-builder's handbook stuff, they go into all the math to find hull
displacement and determine gear and passenger capacity and they have a
table giving weights for engines of increasing sizes,,,,, but they say
nothing about how to decide how much power to hang on a boat. Is there a
formula for this, or is it just--you ask for as much as you want, and
they make the final call?
~


I believe that the question is "why"

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
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Old July 31st 10, 02:59 AM posted to rec.boats.building
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Jun 2010
Posts: 33
Default the pancake skiff - episode 1

On 7/30/2010 7:33 PM, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 11:50:17 -0500,
wrote:

I have made a Freeship model of the hull I am interested in.

page with file link-
http://www.norcom2000.com/users/dcim...oat_makin.html

-or Tiny-
http://tinyurl.com/2g8h8f8

This is not the 100% final version, just a close approximation. The idea
is basically a extra-wide rowboat hull with a very flat bottom. There
will be a flat sealed floor set 6" above the hull bottom on frames
spaced every foot.

This is a inland/fla****er boat only.

Your URL links to a site that provides a ZIP file which expands to be
a FBM file. My system doesn't read fbm files.


Sure it does. Just go download and install Freeship, and you'll be all
set. (at times it is spelled FREE!ship)

http://sourceforge.net/projects/freeship/

Freeship is rather dated but downloading it does not require
registration, as the Delft program seems to.

I would get it rated for a small motor, 5 HP I think. Not very fast, but
as light & broad as the hull is, it's just not going to be safe going
fast anyway. Other 14" boats seem to be running 20-30 HP regularly. 10
MPH is okay for this, I just need a motor that's "faster than rowing"
while being and "less effort than rowing".


Why do you want to "get it rated" for a motor? Are you going to
manufacture it commercially?


I thought that (assuming US laws of course) any given powerboat had a
rated horsepower limit. Stated on the HIN plate.

As I said, this part of the USCG "homebuilder's handbook" is not real
clear. They have an "outboard example" that says how to figure out the
displaement, persons and gear capacity, then they just say the boat's
HIN plate would say it was rated for X people, X lbs of gear and "100
horsepower"..... they never say how they arrived at the 100 HP figure as
safe or allowable.

One 14" commercially-made boat I found used 2mm (~.078") for the hull, I
dunno what alloy. I have no idea how thick to go for the floor. I think
the usual sheet the local metals supplier has on hand is 5052.

You can't equate length and skin thickness. You need to first develop
the actual structure of the boat and then decide the force which must
be opposed by the skin. To exaggerate - a boat with no formers or
stringers depending solely on the skin for strength, i.e., monocoque
construction, would require a totally different material then one
that used a "egg crate" type of structure..


Yea but if I was using metal half as thick (-or twice as thick-) as
comparably-sized commercial boats usually use, that would seem to
indicate something rather odd.

I have found a couple companies that use 1/8" plate for the decking. On
boats about 15'.

I know (in rough terms) what finite element modeling /is/ , but I have
no access to software that can do it. Nor (I would bet) do most of the
people on Earth who build small low-speed boats they've designed
themselves.

~

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Old July 31st 10, 03:00 AM posted to rec.boats.building
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Jun 2010
Posts: 33
Default the pancake skiff - episode 1

ON the page link above is also another link showing a small test model
I'm working on.
~

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Old July 31st 10, 12:58 PM posted to rec.boats.building
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Aug 2009
Posts: 321
Default the pancake skiff - episode 1

On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 20:59:13 -0500, DougC
wrote:

On 7/30/2010 7:33 PM, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 11:50:17 -0500,
wrote:

I have made a Freeship model of the hull I am interested in.

page with file link-
http://www.norcom2000.com/users/dcim...oat_makin.html

-or Tiny-
http://tinyurl.com/2g8h8f8

This is not the 100% final version, just a close approximation. The idea
is basically a extra-wide rowboat hull with a very flat bottom. There
will be a flat sealed floor set 6" above the hull bottom on frames
spaced every foot.

This is a inland/fla****er boat only.

Your URL links to a site that provides a ZIP file which expands to be
a FBM file. My system doesn't read fbm files.


Sure it does. Just go download and install Freeship, and you'll be all
set. (at times it is spelled FREE!ship)

http://sourceforge.net/projects/freeship/

Freeship is rather dated but downloading it does not require
registration, as the Delft program seems to.


Why do you believe that I would want to download and install yet
another program only to advise you on your projected design.


I would get it rated for a small motor, 5 HP I think. Not very fast, but
as light & broad as the hull is, it's just not going to be safe going
fast anyway. Other 14" boats seem to be running 20-30 HP regularly. 10
MPH is okay for this, I just need a motor that's "faster than rowing"
while being and "less effort than rowing".


Why do you want to "get it rated" for a motor? Are you going to
manufacture it commercially?


I thought that (assuming US laws of course) any given powerboat had a
rated horsepower limit. Stated on the HIN plate.


Do home built boats have a HIN plate?


Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


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Old July 31st 10, 03:36 PM posted to rec.boats.building
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,921
Default the pancake skiff - episode 1

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 20:59:13 -0500, DougC
wrote:

On 7/30/2010 7:33 PM, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 11:50:17 -0500,
wrote:

I have made a Freeship model of the hull I am interested in.

page with file link-
http://www.norcom2000.com/users/dcim...oat_makin.html

-or Tiny-
http://tinyurl.com/2g8h8f8

This is not the 100% final version, just a close approximation. The idea
is basically a extra-wide rowboat hull with a very flat bottom. There
will be a flat sealed floor set 6" above the hull bottom on frames
spaced every foot.

This is a inland/fla****er boat only.

Your URL links to a site that provides a ZIP file which expands to be
a FBM file. My system doesn't read fbm files.


Sure it does. Just go download and install Freeship, and you'll be all
set. (at times it is spelled FREE!ship)

http://sourceforge.net/projects/freeship/

Freeship is rather dated but downloading it does not require
registration, as the Delft program seems to.


Why do you believe that I would want to download and install yet
another program only to advise you on your projected design.


I would get it rated for a small motor, 5 HP I think. Not very fast, but
as light & broad as the hull is, it's just not going to be safe going
fast anyway. Other 14" boats seem to be running 20-30 HP regularly. 10
MPH is okay for this, I just need a motor that's "faster than rowing"
while being and "less effort than rowing".


Why do you want to "get it rated" for a motor? Are you going to
manufacture it commercially?


I thought that (assuming US laws of course) any given powerboat had a
rated horsepower limit. Stated on the HIN plate.


Do home built boats have a HIN plate?


Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


Yes... I am not sure about the other 50 states but trust that each one
marks that boat somehow so they can collect taxes on it

--
Rowdy Mouse Racing - We race for cheese!
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Old July 31st 10, 05:50 PM posted to rec.boats.building
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Jun 2010
Posts: 33
Default the pancake skiff - episode 1

On 7/31/2010 6:58 AM, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
...
Why do you believe that I would want to download and install yet
another program only to advise you on your projected design.


Because it is the most awesome example of maritime design ever, and you
will weep tears of joy the moment you lay eyes upon it.

--------

I am kinda wavering on it tho'.
The engine will about double the cost of the thing, but rowing a
very-wide hull would be a tremendous chore.

I like the idea of a flat deck, but there's more than one way to do that.


Do home built boats have a HIN plate?


If they are used on navigable waterways inside the USA and have a motor,
then yes--they do.
~
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Old August 1st 10, 12:43 AM posted to rec.boats.building
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Aug 2009
Posts: 321
Default the pancake skiff - episode 1

On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 10:36:09 -0400, I am Tosk
wrote:

In article ,
says...

On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 20:59:13 -0500, DougC
wrote:

On 7/30/2010 7:33 PM, Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 11:50:17 -0500,
wrote:

I have made a Freeship model of the hull I am interested in.

page with file link-
http://www.norcom2000.com/users/dcim...oat_makin.html

-or Tiny-
http://tinyurl.com/2g8h8f8

This is not the 100% final version, just a close approximation. The idea
is basically a extra-wide rowboat hull with a very flat bottom. There
will be a flat sealed floor set 6" above the hull bottom on frames
spaced every foot.

This is a inland/fla****er boat only.

Your URL links to a site that provides a ZIP file which expands to be
a FBM file. My system doesn't read fbm files.


Sure it does. Just go download and install Freeship, and you'll be all
set. (at times it is spelled FREE!ship)

http://sourceforge.net/projects/freeship/

Freeship is rather dated but downloading it does not require
registration, as the Delft program seems to.


Why do you believe that I would want to download and install yet
another program only to advise you on your projected design.


I would get it rated for a small motor, 5 HP I think. Not very fast, but
as light & broad as the hull is, it's just not going to be safe going
fast anyway. Other 14" boats seem to be running 20-30 HP regularly. 10
MPH is okay for this, I just need a motor that's "faster than rowing"
while being and "less effort than rowing".


Why do you want to "get it rated" for a motor? Are you going to
manufacture it commercially?


I thought that (assuming US laws of course) any given powerboat had a
rated horsepower limit. Stated on the HIN plate.


Do home built boats have a HIN plate?


Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


Yes... I am not sure about the other 50 states but trust that each one
marks that boat somehow so they can collect taxes on it


You mean that you cannot build yourself a boat anymore, without the
Gomment sticking their fingers in the pie?


Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
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Old August 1st 10, 02:46 AM posted to rec.boats.building
mmc mmc is offline
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Posts: 891
Default the pancake skiff - episode 1


http://spacecoast.craigslist.org/boa/1874022332.html
Some great deals out there..........


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Old August 2nd 10, 10:34 AM posted to rec.boats.building
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Posts: 33
Default the pancake skiff - episode 1

On 7/31/2010 8:46 PM, mmc wrote:
http://spacecoast.craigslist.org/boa/1874022332.html
Some great deals out there..........



The price is right, but the floor isn't flat... -and how well does it row?

The engine is an "extra" for me. It'd be nice to have if I needed it,
but don't think I'd use it much of the time. I don't want to listen to
the noise of an engine all the time I'm moving.
~


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