I just got a report from a friend of mine about his
recent TransPac experience. It seems one of
the 11 crew contracted a viral flu a few days
before starting the trip. 9 of 11 crew were knocked
out of action within three days. The DNF'd and
returned to California, making better time on the
return than the way out. My friend was one of the
two who did not get sick.

An interesting web page about a similar subject.

http://www.old-merseytimes.co.uk/plagueships.html

Liverpool Mercury, Saturday, July 5th, 1913

THE PLAGUE SHIPS

The Cholera

Imagine the cargo of several hundred, men, women and
children cooped up together like herrings, all fearful of
destruction among the huge waves, with just a few planks
between them and death.

Then imagine that the rumour has spread that the vessel
is plague stricken, that the dread cholera has broken out
on board!

During the month of November in the year 1853, 28
emigrant ships sailed to America from European ports
carrying, 13,762 passengers. The cholera broke out
on all of the 28 ships, 1,141 persons died, 4 to 5000
people were affected by the cholera.

Table appearing in the New York Herald, December 1853.

[NB the edge of the paper is badly damaged, some parts
illegible, ? added as to missing letters, could guess at
names but would not like to mislead]

L - Length of passage in days

P - passengers

D - Deaths from cholera

FOREST KING, from Liverpool, L- 48, P - 589, D - 39

PRINCE ALBERT, from London, L - 42, P - 378, D - 35

DEVONSHIRE, from London, L - 30, P - 596, D - 27

Wm TAPSCOTT, from Liverpool, L - 35, P - 940, D - 62

CORINTHIAN, from Harve, L - 50, P - 514, D - 44

FORTITUDE, from Harve, L - 40, P - 324, D - 20

CENTURION, from Liverpool, L - 40, P - 392, D - 15

STATESMAN, from Antwerp, L - 37, P - 299, D- 26

? UNION, from Liverpool, L - 38, P - 620, D - 89

?OTHENBURG, from Hamburg, L - 37, P - 290, D - 26

DELAWARE, from Bremen, L - 37, P - 236, D - 15

EMMA FIELDS, from Liverpool, L - 35, P - 439, D - 42

?LHAIN, from Liverpool, L - 29, P - 932, D - 53

?OWARD, from Antwerp,L - 40, P - 265, D - 7

ANTARCTIC, from Liverpool, L - 34, P - 531, D - 65

?MPIRE, from Harve, L - 33, P - 723, D - 73

?INE, from Hamburg, L - 40, P - 205, D - 14

?DELIA, from Liverpool, L - 31, P - 421, D - 24

?ORNELIA, from Liverpool, L - 43, P - 466, D - 13

?LONDA, from London, L - ?, P - 353, D - 33

CONSTELLATION, from Liverpool, L - 33, P - 922, D - 100

?IBERNIA, from Liverpool, L - 30, P - 380, D - 33

?LAS GREENMAN, from Liverpool, L - 45, P - 351, D - 27

?OCHAMBEAN, from Liverpool, L - 38, P - 430, D - 11

Geo HWLBUT, from Harve, L - 36, P - 685, D - 76

NEW WORLD, from Liverpool, L - 34, P - 754, D - 75

?OWHATAN, from Rotterdam, L - 47, P - 196, D - 13

?ARATHON, from Liverpool, L - 59, P - 531, D - 64

The biggest mortality was on the Constellation which
left Liverpool on the 25th October and reached New
York on the 25th November, 34 days, with 922 on
board, it was 2days out when cholera made its appearance.

There was as many as 80 persons sick at one time, 10
people died in one day.

The disease was rendered more virulent by the large
number of emigrants lacking in provisions for the voyage,
dependent on the weekly rations handed out on the
vessel, mortality was therefore excessive amongst
the steerage passengers.

The crowded state of the vessel was most injurious to
the health of the passengers, space allowed per
passenger is 14 ft, the constellation had 7 ft less,
the passengers confined between decks compelled
to breathe the loathsome and fetid atmosphere of
the steerage.

In the steerage apartment the walls are lined with 2 r
ows of bunks placed one above the other, each
capable of accommodating, 2/3 people.

The berths are like temporary bedsteads made in the
roughest style, plain, pine boards.

Each passenger finds his own bedding, generally
scant and of poor description. Hundreds of people
are housed of both sexes and all ages, most
confined to their beds during the voyage in an
enfeebled state.

There are no windows, the only source of light and
ventilation being an opening on the deck 4ft by 6ft.

The scenes occurring on these plague ships are of
the most melancholy character, 3 and 4 children left
without parents, whole families swept off, 10 persons
have died, 80 lie prostrate, several of these in the
convulsive struggle of death.

The vapour rising from this loathsome abode affects
you with the most sick nausea, yet up to 800 people
are breathing its infected atmosphere.

Here is a young woman whose child has been
committed to the deep in the last agonies of the
plague, she has no friends and was on her way
to meet her husband in Michigan, anxiously waiting
their arrival.

We saw his affectionate letter to her enclosing
money to pay her expenses and the liveliest
satisfaction at the prospect of seeing her after
long years of separation.

He is one of hundreds who will look in vain for the
arrival of friends and relatives.

The CONSTELLATON complied with the
requirements of the law, the humanity of the
Captain and officers was spoken of in the highest
terms of praise by the passengers. She appears
to be ventilated as well as any ship can be and
has never had so much sickness and death on
board during the 3 to 4yrs she has been running
between Liverpool and America, the sailors
alarmed by the sickness refused to sail on any
other passenger ships.

Bart wrote:
I just got a report from a friend of mine about his
recent TransPac experience. It seems one of
the 11 crew contracted a viral flu a few days
before starting the trip. 9 of 11 crew were knocked
out of action within three days. The DNF'd and
returned to California, making better time on the
return than the way out. My friend was one of the
two who did not get sick.

An interesting web page about a similar subject.

http://www.old-merseytimes.co.uk/plagueships.html

Liverpool Mercury, Saturday, July 5th, 1913

THE PLAGUE SHIPS

The Cholera

Imagine the cargo of several hundred, men, women and
children cooped up together like herrings, all fearful of
destruction among the huge waves, with just a few planks
between them and death.

Then imagine that the rumour has spread that the vessel
is plague stricken, that the dread cholera has broken out
on board!

During the month of November in the year 1853, 28
emigrant ships sailed to America from European ports
carrying, 13,762 passengers. The cholera broke out
on all of the 28 ships, 1,141 persons died, 4 to 5000
people were affected by the cholera.

Table appearing in the New York Herald, December 1853.

[NB the edge of the paper is badly damaged, some parts
illegible, ? added as to missing letters, could guess at
names but would not like to mislead]

L - Length of passage in days

P - passengers

D - Deaths from cholera

FOREST KING, from Liverpool, L- 48, P - 589, D - 39

PRINCE ALBERT, from London, L - 42, P - 378, D - 35

DEVONSHIRE, from London, L - 30, P - 596, D - 27

Wm TAPSCOTT, from Liverpool, L - 35, P - 940, D - 62

CORINTHIAN, from Harve, L - 50, P - 514, D - 44

FORTITUDE, from Harve, L - 40, P - 324, D - 20

CENTURION, from Liverpool, L - 40, P - 392, D - 15

STATESMAN, from Antwerp, L - 37, P - 299, D- 26

? UNION, from Liverpool, L - 38, P - 620, D - 89

?OTHENBURG, from Hamburg, L - 37, P - 290, D - 26

DELAWARE, from Bremen, L - 37, P - 236, D - 15

EMMA FIELDS, from Liverpool, L - 35, P - 439, D - 42

?LHAIN, from Liverpool, L - 29, P - 932, D - 53

?OWARD, from Antwerp,L - 40, P - 265, D - 7

ANTARCTIC, from Liverpool, L - 34, P - 531, D - 65

?MPIRE, from Harve, L - 33, P - 723, D - 73

?INE, from Hamburg, L - 40, P - 205, D - 14

?DELIA, from Liverpool, L - 31, P - 421, D - 24

?ORNELIA, from Liverpool, L - 43, P - 466, D - 13

?LONDA, from London, L - ?, P - 353, D - 33

CONSTELLATION, from Liverpool, L - 33, P - 922, D - 100

?IBERNIA, from Liverpool, L - 30, P - 380, D - 33

?LAS GREENMAN, from Liverpool, L - 45, P - 351, D - 27

?OCHAMBEAN, from Liverpool, L - 38, P - 430, D - 11

Geo HWLBUT, from Harve, L - 36, P - 685, D - 76

NEW WORLD, from Liverpool, L - 34, P - 754, D - 75

?OWHATAN, from Rotterdam, L - 47, P - 196, D - 13

?ARATHON, from Liverpool, L - 59, P - 531, D - 64

The biggest mortality was on the Constellation which
left Liverpool on the 25th October and reached New
York on the 25th November, 34 days, with 922 on
board, it was 2days out when cholera made its appearance.

There was as many as 80 persons sick at one time, 10
people died in one day.

The disease was rendered more virulent by the large
number of emigrants lacking in provisions for the voyage,
dependent on the weekly rations handed out on the
vessel, mortality was therefore excessive amongst
the steerage passengers.

The crowded state of the vessel was most injurious to
the health of the passengers, space allowed per
passenger is 14 ft, the constellation had 7 ft less,
the passengers confined between decks compelled
to breathe the loathsome and fetid atmosphere of
the steerage.

In the steerage apartment the walls are lined with 2 r
ows of bunks placed one above the other, each
capable of accommodating, 2/3 people.

The berths are like temporary bedsteads made in the
roughest style, plain, pine boards.

Each passenger finds his own bedding, generally
scant and of poor description. Hundreds of people
are housed of both sexes and all ages, most
confined to their beds during the voyage in an
enfeebled state.

There are no windows, the only source of light and
ventilation being an opening on the deck 4ft by 6ft.

The scenes occurring on these plague ships are of
the most melancholy character, 3 and 4 children left
without parents, whole families swept off, 10 persons
have died, 80 lie prostrate, several of these in the
convulsive struggle of death.

The vapour rising from this loathsome abode affects
you with the most sick nausea, yet up to 800 people
are breathing its infected atmosphere.

Here is a young woman whose child has been
committed to the deep in the last agonies of the
plague, she has no friends and was on her way
to meet her husband in Michigan, anxiously waiting
their arrival.

We saw his affectionate letter to her enclosing
money to pay her expenses and the liveliest
satisfaction at the prospect of seeing her after
long years of separation.

He is one of hundreds who will look in vain for the
arrival of friends and relatives.

The CONSTELLATON complied with the
requirements of the law, the humanity of the
Captain and officers was spoken of in the highest
terms of praise by the passengers. She appears
to be ventilated as well as any ship can be and
has never had so much sickness and death on
board during the 3 to 4yrs she has been running
between Liverpool and America, the sailors
alarmed by the sickness refused to sail on any
other passenger ships.

I have a photograph of my triple great and great great grandmother Ann
Davitt when they disembarked in New York...they wore every scrap of
clothing they owned because they didn't have luggage...fortunately, 3
great grandfather was already in Minnesaota and had saved and sent to
Islandeady, Co, Mayo for them....they were lucky and survived...they
came over on the Caledonia....much sickness was reproted then,
too....whole thing was horrendous...but not nearly as bad as the
criminal ships sent to Australia....

"katy" wrote in message
...
Bart wrote:

I have a photograph of my triple great and great great
grandmother Ann
Davitt when they disembarked in New York...they wore every
scrap of
clothing they owned because they didn't have
luggage...fortunately, 3
great grandfather was already in Minnesaota and had saved
and sent to
Islandeady, Co, Mayo for them....they were lucky and
survived...they
came over on the Caledonia....much sickness was reproted
then,
too....whole thing was horrendous...but not nearly as bad
as the
criminal ships sent to Australia....

or the slave ships.

"katysails" wrote
I have a photograph of my triple great and great great
grandmother Ann
Davitt when they disembarked in New York...

It's amazing all the photos & records.... wouldn't think they were
that organized back then. And who would want their picture taken at
one of the lowest points of their lives?

I have a bunch of old photos of family but none "upon arrival." Many
of my ancestor either came here before photography was invented, or
snuck in illegally and didn't want their picture taken. One of my
maternal ancestors was a sea captain and is said to have made many
undocumented stops to pick up friends & family on the west coast of
Ireland.


...fortunately, 3
great grandfather was already in Minnesaota and had saved
and sent to
Islandeady, Co, Mayo for them....they were lucky and
survived...

The incidence of plague on ships was one of the things that convinced
many doctors in the late 1800s and early 1900s that the germ theory of
disease was incorrect. Plenty of "bad air" on ships.


"Scotty" wrote:
or the slave ships.

That was bad.... but hey, at least they didn't have to row!

DSK

On Sep 13, 9:10 pm, Bart wrote:
I just got a report from a friend of mine about his
recent TransPac experience. It seems one of
the 11 crew contracted a viral flu a few days
before starting the trip. 9 of 11 crew were knocked
out of action within three days. The DNF'd and
returned to California, making better time on the
return than the way out. My friend was one of the
two who did not get sick.

An interesting web page about a similar subject.

http://www.old-merseytimes.co.uk/plagueships.html

Liverpool Mercury, Saturday, July 5th, 1913

THE PLAGUE SHIPS

The Cholera

Imagine the cargo of several hundred, men, women and
children cooped up together like herrings, all fearful of
destruction among the huge waves, with just a few planks
between them and death.

Then imagine that the rumour has spread that the vessel
is plague stricken, that the dread cholera has broken out
on board!

During the month of November in the year 1853, 28
emigrant ships sailed to America from European ports
carrying, 13,762 passengers. The cholera broke out
on all of the 28 ships, 1,141 persons died, 4 to 5000
people were affected by the cholera.

Table appearing in the New York Herald, December 1853.

[NB the edge of the paper is badly damaged, some parts
illegible, ? added as to missing letters, could guess at
names but would not like to mislead]

L - Length of passage in days

P - passengers

D - Deaths from cholera

FOREST KING, from Liverpool, L- 48, P - 589, D - 39

PRINCE ALBERT, from London, L - 42, P - 378, D - 35

DEVONSHIRE, from London, L - 30, P - 596, D - 27

Wm TAPSCOTT, from Liverpool, L - 35, P - 940, D - 62

CORINTHIAN, from Harve, L - 50, P - 514, D - 44

FORTITUDE, from Harve, L - 40, P - 324, D - 20

CENTURION, from Liverpool, L - 40, P - 392, D - 15

STATESMAN, from Antwerp, L - 37, P - 299, D- 26

? UNION, from Liverpool, L - 38, P - 620, D - 89

?OTHENBURG, from Hamburg, L - 37, P - 290, D - 26

DELAWARE, from Bremen, L - 37, P - 236, D - 15

EMMA FIELDS, from Liverpool, L - 35, P - 439, D - 42

?LHAIN, from Liverpool, L - 29, P - 932, D - 53

?OWARD, from Antwerp,L - 40, P - 265, D - 7

ANTARCTIC, from Liverpool, L - 34, P - 531, D - 65

?MPIRE, from Harve, L - 33, P - 723, D - 73

?INE, from Hamburg, L - 40, P - 205, D - 14

?DELIA, from Liverpool, L - 31, P - 421, D - 24

?ORNELIA, from Liverpool, L - 43, P - 466, D - 13

?LONDA, from London, L - ?, P - 353, D - 33

CONSTELLATION, from Liverpool, L - 33, P - 922, D - 100

?IBERNIA, from Liverpool, L - 30, P - 380, D - 33

?LAS GREENMAN, from Liverpool, L - 45, P - 351, D - 27

?OCHAMBEAN, from Liverpool, L - 38, P - 430, D - 11

Geo HWLBUT, from Harve, L - 36, P - 685, D - 76

NEW WORLD, from Liverpool, L - 34, P - 754, D - 75

?OWHATAN, from Rotterdam, L - 47, P - 196, D - 13

?ARATHON, from Liverpool, L - 59, P - 531, D - 64

The biggest mortality was on the Constellation which
left Liverpool on the 25th October and reached New
York on the 25th November, 34 days, with 922 on
board, it was 2days out when cholera made its appearance.

There was as many as 80 persons sick at one time, 10
people died in one day.

The disease was rendered more virulent by the large
number of emigrants lacking in provisions for the voyage,
dependent on the weekly rations handed out on the
vessel, mortality was therefore excessive amongst
the steerage passengers.

The crowded state of the vessel was most injurious to
the health of the passengers, space allowed per
passenger is 14 ft, the constellation had 7 ft less,
the passengers confined between decks compelled
to breathe the loathsome and fetid atmosphere of
the steerage.

In the steerage apartment the walls are lined with 2 r
ows of bunks placed one above the other, each
capable of accommodating, 2/3 people.

The berths are like temporary bedsteads made in the
roughest style, plain, pine boards.

Each passenger finds his own bedding, generally
scant and of poor description. Hundreds of people
are housed of both sexes and all ages, most
confined to their beds during the voyage in an
enfeebled state.

There are no windows, the only source of light and
ventilation being an opening on the deck 4ft by 6ft.

The scenes occurring on these plague ships are of
the most melancholy character, 3 and 4 children left
without parents, whole families swept off, 10 persons
have died, 80 lie prostrate, several of these in the
convulsive struggle of death.

The vapour rising from this loathsome abode affects
you with the most sick nausea, yet up to 800 people
are breathing its infected atmosphere.

Here is a young woman whose child has been
committed to the deep in the last agonies of the
plague, she has no friends and was on her way
to meet her husband in Michigan, anxiously waiting
their arrival.

We saw his affectionate letter to her enclosing
money to pay her expenses and the liveliest
satisfaction at the prospect of seeing her after
long years of separation.

He is one of hundreds who will look in vain for the
arrival of friends and relatives.

The CONSTELLATON complied with the
requirements of the law, the humanity of the
Captain and officers was spoken of in the highest
terms of praise by the passengers. She appears
to be ventilated as well as any ship can be and
has never had so much sickness and death on
board during the 3 to 4yrs she has been running
between Liverpool and America, the sailors
alarmed by the sickness refused to sail on any
other passenger ships.

I once lived a few slips from a Plaque ship, her name was Sea-Mint.
As you may guess she was a cement hull. The owner was walking home
from a bar and was hit by a car. He got up dusted himself off, went
home and died in his sleep.

About two weeks later the boats plaque emerged as 100,000 +
cockroaches. It completly covered the boats decks and interior. We
tossed many bug bombs below, but still the dock was covered, the dock
boxes, cars, water, the creepy *******s were everywhere. Took a week
of spraying to get them undercontrol.

Man that was gross! Thanks for the memorys Bart.

Joe

"Joe" wrote in message
ps.com...
ssenger ships.

I once lived a few slips from a Plaque ship, her name was Sea-Mint.
As you may guess she was a cement hull. The owner was walking home
from a bar and was hit by a car. He got up dusted himself off, went
home and died in his sleep.

About two weeks later the boats plaque emerged as 100,000 +
cockroaches. It completly covered the boats decks and interior. We
tossed many bug bombs below, but still the dock was covered, the dock
boxes, cars, water, the creepy *******s were everywhere. Took a week
of spraying to get them undercontrol.

Man that was gross! Thanks for the memorys Bart.

Joe

When I was in the Royal Navy our messroom was infested with the things. You
could come in at night and switch on the light and they would all run like
hell for cover into all the dark places under the seats. I fixed them
permanently by connecting a hose to the low pressure steam main and hosing
all those places well and good. Afterwards I swept up heaps of them and they
never came back.
That is a lot 'greener' way of disposing of them than spraying chemicals to
which they can become immune. I still think that they will outlast the human
race though. They are survivors.

On Sep 14, 1:14 pm, "Edgar" wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message

ps.com...
ssenger ships.



I once lived a few slips from a Plaque ship, her name was Sea-Mint.
As you may guess she was a cement hull. The owner was walking home
from a bar and was hit by a car. He got up dusted himself off, went
home and died in his sleep.

About two weeks later the boats plaque emerged as 100,000 +
cockroaches. It completly covered the boats decks and interior. We
tossed many bug bombs below, but still the dock was covered, the dock
boxes, cars, water, the creepy *******s were everywhere. Took a week
of spraying to get them undercontrol.

Man that was gross! Thanks for the memorys Bart.

Joe

When I was in the Royal Navy our messroom was infested with the things. You
could come in at night and switch on the light and they would all run like
hell for cover into all the dark places under the seats. I fixed them
permanently by connecting a hose to the low pressure steam main and hosing
all those places well and good. Afterwards I swept up heaps of them and they
never came back.
That is a lot 'greener' way of disposing of them than spraying chemicals to
which they can become immune. I still think that they will outlast the human
race though. They are survivors.

Sounds like a new biz venture Edgar.

Joe

wrote:
"katysails" wrote

I have a photograph of my triple great and great great

grandmother Ann

Davitt when they disembarked in New York...


It's amazing all the photos & records.... wouldn't think they were
that organized back then. And who would want their picture taken at
one of the lowest points of their lives?

They didn't comsider it the lowest point...the lowest point was when
they were all dying off of starvation and being poisoned back in
Mayo....reaching the US was the culmination of a dream where there was
hope....

I have a bunch of old photos of family but none "upon arrival." Many
of my ancestor either came here before photography was invented, or
snuck in illegally and didn't want their picture taken. One of my
maternal ancestors was a sea captain and is said to have made many
undocumented stops to pick up friends & family on the west coast of
Ireland.



...fortunately, 3
great grandfather was already in Minnesaota and had saved

and sent to

Islandeady, Co, Mayo for them....they were lucky and

survived...


The incidence of plague on ships was one of the things that convinced
many doctors in the late 1800s and early 1900s that the germ theory of
disease was incorrect. Plenty of "bad air" on ships.


"Scotty" wrote:

or the slave ships.


That was bad.... but hey, at least they didn't have to row!

DSK

On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 10:52:45 -0700, Joe
wrote:

About two weeks later the boats plaque emerged as 100,000 +
cockroaches. It completly covered the boats decks and interior. We
tossed many bug bombs below, but still the dock was covered, the dock
boxes, cars, water, the creepy *******s were everywhere. Took a week
of spraying to get them undercontrol.

Man that was gross! Thanks for the memorys Bart.

I had some kind of outdoor roach between the sidewalk
and building one summer. They must have got under the tar-like
caulking that had been squeezed between the building and sidewalk, and
built nests under the sidewalk.
The tar stuff was dried and peeling away. They'd only come out at
night and were all over the sidewalk and into the grass. The grass
was getting ate up.
I got some spray in a big pressure can from an exterminator, pulled
all the tar away and started spraying all along in the 40' crack.
Thousand and thousands came pouring out dancing on their back legs
before keeling over. All the neighbor kids were watching from a
distance, and they started screaming out their emotions, mostly stuff
like "Look at all them bugs!! Eeeew gross!."
That was that.
Roaches are dangerous, and caused one of the most painful and
long-lasting injuries of my life.
Came into the basement, flipped on the light, and a roach took off for
shelter under a rolled piece of carpet. I sprinted after it, and
pulled a hamstring. Limped for weeks.

--Vic

Vic Smith wrote:
On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 10:52:45 -0700, Joe
wrote:

About two weeks later the boats plaque emerged as 100,000 +
cockroaches. It completly covered the boats decks and interior. We
tossed many bug bombs below, but still the dock was covered, the dock
boxes, cars, water, the creepy *******s were everywhere. Took a week
of spraying to get them undercontrol.

Man that was gross! Thanks for the memorys Bart.


I had some kind of outdoor roach between the sidewalk
and building one summer. They must have got under the tar-like
caulking that had been squeezed between the building and sidewalk, and
built nests under the sidewalk.
The tar stuff was dried and peeling away. They'd only come out at
night and were all over the sidewalk and into the grass. The grass
was getting ate up.
I got some spray in a big pressure can from an exterminator, pulled
all the tar away and started spraying all along in the 40' crack.
Thousand and thousands came pouring out dancing on their back legs
before keeling over. All the neighbor kids were watching from a
distance, and they started screaming out their emotions, mostly stuff
like "Look at all them bugs!! Eeeew gross!."
That was that.
Roaches are dangerous, and caused one of the most painful and
long-lasting injuries of my life.
Came into the basement, flipped on the light, and a roach took off for
shelter under a rolled piece of carpet. I sprinted after it, and
pulled a hamstring. Limped for weeks.

--Vic

What you had sounds like earwigs.....