On Aug 20, 5:32 pm, OzOne wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 06:55:58 -0700, Joe
scribbled thusly:

Would it not have been smarter to cut the sail where it clears the
rails?

I see this all the time, sail all crunched up on the rails. IIRC even
Robs head sail is cut this way.

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...35s5/Week1.jpg

Even looks bad. Somethings got to go..

Joe

And sacrifice sail when close hauled?

I would think a properly shaped sail on all points would be the best
all around.
I can see the chaffing taking place clearly.

Is that wrong OZ?

Joe

OzOne wrote:
And sacrifice sail when close hauled?

Everything's a compromise.


Joe wrote:
I would think a properly shaped sail on all points would be the best
all around.

Depends on what you mean by "best."
A genoa with a high-cut foot to clear the bow pulpit & lifelines will
be slower on alll points, less sail area and poor flow around the
foot. Better visibility & less chafe, though. You have to make up your
mind what you want.


I can see the chaffing taking place clearly.


Well, you can avoid that by keeping the sail nice & safe in it's bag.


Is that wrong OZ?


It's only WRONG to think that the loss of speed isn't much (it is) or
that anybody who doesn't have the same priorities as yourself is a
fool.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

On Aug 21, 8:32 am, wrote:
OzOne wrote:
And sacrifice sail when close hauled?

Everything's a compromise.

Joe wrote:
I would think a properly shaped sail on all points would be the best
all around.

Depends on what you mean by "best."

Best all around Doug. Is that too hard a concept for you to envision?

Best means the best shape, and best care, and best preformance. Are
you telling me a crunched up sail dragging the lifelines has good flow
around the foot?



A genoa with a high-cut foot to clear the bow pulpit & lifelines will
be slower on alll points, less sail area and poor flow around the
foot. Better visibility & less chafe, though. You have to make up your
mind what you want.

I can see the chaffing taking place clearly.

Well, you can avoid that by keeping the sail nice & safe in it's bag.

Hey.... for all I care about your sails, you can drag them across a
parking lot, use 40 grit sandpaper to clean them, and fly them where
they always rub everything and are out of the proper shape.


Is that wrong OZ?

It's only WRONG to think that the loss of speed isn't much (it is) or
that anybody who doesn't have the same priorities as yourself is a
fool.


If you are happy with a sail crunched up over a hand rail and or
lifelines feel free to partake. Oh I forgot...you do not have a
sailboat do you?

Joe

Joe wrote:
On Aug 21, 8:32 am, wrote:

OzOne wrote:

And sacrifice sail when close hauled?

Everything's a compromise.

Joe wrote:

I would think a properly shaped sail on all points would be the best
all around.

Depends on what you mean by "best."


Best all around Doug. Is that too hard a concept for you to envision?

Best means the best shape, and best care, and best preformance. Are
you telling me a crunched up sail dragging the lifelines has good flow
around the foot?




A genoa with a high-cut foot to clear the bow pulpit & lifelines will
be slower on alll points, less sail area and poor flow around the
foot. Better visibility & less chafe, though. You have to make up your
mind what you want.


I can see the chaffing taking place clearly.

Well, you can avoid that by keeping the sail nice & safe in it's bag.


Hey.... for all I care about your sails, you can drag them across a
parking lot, use 40 grit sandpaper to clean them, and fly them where
they always rub everything and are out of the proper shape.



Is that wrong OZ?

It's only WRONG to think that the loss of speed isn't much (it is) or
that anybody who doesn't have the same priorities as yourself is a
fool.



If you are happy with a sail crunched up over a hand rail and or
lifelines feel free to partake. Oh I forgot...you do not have a
sailboat do you?

Joe

For Pete's sake, if it bothers you so much you can always drop the
lifelines down to the base of the bow pulpit..many people do that...we
have chafe guards on our lines..little round whellie things that the
sail rides over to keep it from chafing...our sail is a deck
sweeper...having it cut up over the top of the lifelines would mean an
incredible loss of sail area...so it's a tad unsightly, so what? Beats
losing speed...

On Aug 21, 9:48 am, katy wrote:
Joe wrote:
On Aug 21, 8:32 am, wrote:

OzOne wrote:

And sacrifice sail when close hauled?

Everything's a compromise.

Joe wrote:

I would think a properly shaped sail on all points would be the best
all around.

Depends on what you mean by "best."

Best all around Doug. Is that too hard a concept for you to envision?

Best means the best shape, and best care, and best preformance. Are
you telling me a crunched up sail dragging the lifelines has good flow
around the foot?

A genoa with a high-cut foot to clear the bow pulpit & lifelines will
be slower on alll points, less sail area and poor flow around the
foot. Better visibility & less chafe, though. You have to make up your
mind what you want.

I can see the chaffing taking place clearly.

Well, you can avoid that by keeping the sail nice & safe in it's bag.

Hey.... for all I care about your sails, you can drag them across a
parking lot, use 40 grit sandpaper to clean them, and fly them where
they always rub everything and are out of the proper shape.

Is that wrong OZ?

It's only WRONG to think that the loss of speed isn't much (it is) or
that anybody who doesn't have the same priorities as yourself is a
fool.

If you are happy with a sail crunched up over a hand rail and or
lifelines feel free to partake. Oh I forgot...you do not have a
sailboat do you?

Joe

For Pete's sake, if it bothers you so much you can always drop the
lifelines down to the base of the bow pulpit..many people do that...we
have chafe guards on our lines..little round whellie things that the
sail rides over to keep it from chafing...our sail is a deck
sweeper...having it cut up over the top of the lifelines would mean an
incredible loss of sail area...so it's a tad unsightly, so what? Beats
losing speed...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Drop the life lines forward? Do they toss the lifejackets and liferaft
over too?

Why not go with a bigger % forward sail to make up for the loss.
Tad unsightly, so what? What is that the crunched up sail is not going
to have a good flow at the foot as Doug claims.

Joe

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Aug 21, 9:48 am, katy wrote:
Joe wrote:
On Aug 21, 8:32 am, wrote:

OzOne wrote:

And sacrifice sail when close hauled?

Everything's a compromise.

Joe wrote:

I would think a properly shaped sail on all points would be the best
all around.

Depends on what you mean by "best."

Best all around Doug. Is that too hard a concept for you to envision?

Best means the best shape, and best care, and best preformance. Are
you telling me a crunched up sail dragging the lifelines has good flow
around the foot?

A genoa with a high-cut foot to clear the bow pulpit & lifelines will
be slower on alll points, less sail area and poor flow around the
foot. Better visibility & less chafe, though. You have to make up your
mind what you want.

I can see the chaffing taking place clearly.

Well, you can avoid that by keeping the sail nice & safe in it's bag.

Hey.... for all I care about your sails, you can drag them across a
parking lot, use 40 grit sandpaper to clean them, and fly them where
they always rub everything and are out of the proper shape.

Is that wrong OZ?

It's only WRONG to think that the loss of speed isn't much (it is) or
that anybody who doesn't have the same priorities as yourself is a
fool.

If you are happy with a sail crunched up over a hand rail and or
lifelines feel free to partake. Oh I forgot...you do not have a
sailboat do you?

Joe

For Pete's sake, if it bothers you so much you can always drop the
lifelines down to the base of the bow pulpit..many people do that...we
have chafe guards on our lines..little round whellie things that the
sail rides over to keep it from chafing...our sail is a deck
sweeper...having it cut up over the top of the lifelines would mean an
incredible loss of sail area...so it's a tad unsightly, so what? Beats
losing speed...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Drop the life lines forward? Do they toss the lifejackets and liferaft
over too?

Why not go with a bigger % forward sail to make up for the loss.
Tad unsightly, so what? What is that the crunched up sail is not going
to have a good flow at the foot as Doug claims.

Joe

We had a Catalina 27 a few years ago that had the lifelines dropped at the
pulpit. Dumb idea. That's one of the places where they can help you. We had
them re-run. You don't have to worry about lifejackets on Bob's boat
though... he and his guests don't use them...

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Aug 21, 9:48 am, katy wrote:
Joe wrote:
On Aug 21, 8:32 am, wrote:

OzOne wrote:

And sacrifice sail when close hauled?

Everything's a compromise.

Joe wrote:

I would think a properly shaped sail on all points would be the
best
all around.

Depends on what you mean by "best."

Best all around Doug. Is that too hard a concept for you to
envision?

Best means the best shape, and best care, and best preformance. Are
you telling me a crunched up sail dragging the lifelines has good
flow
around the foot?

A genoa with a high-cut foot to clear the bow pulpit & lifelines
will
be slower on alll points, less sail area and poor flow around the
foot. Better visibility & less chafe, though. You have to make up
your
mind what you want.

I can see the chaffing taking place clearly.

Well, you can avoid that by keeping the sail nice & safe in it's
bag.

Hey.... for all I care about your sails, you can drag them across a
parking lot, use 40 grit sandpaper to clean them, and fly them
where
they always rub everything and are out of the proper shape.

Is that wrong OZ?

It's only WRONG to think that the loss of speed isn't much (it is)
or
that anybody who doesn't have the same priorities as yourself is a
fool.

If you are happy with a sail crunched up over a hand rail and or
lifelines feel free to partake. Oh I forgot...you do not have a
sailboat do you?

Joe

For Pete's sake, if it bothers you so much you can always drop the
lifelines down to the base of the bow pulpit..many people do
that...we
have chafe guards on our lines..little round whellie things that the
sail rides over to keep it from chafing...our sail is a deck
sweeper...having it cut up over the top of the lifelines would mean
an
incredible loss of sail area...so it's a tad unsightly, so what?
Beats
losing speed...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Drop the life lines forward? Do they toss the lifejackets and liferaft
over too?

Why not go with a bigger % forward sail to make up for the loss.
Tad unsightly, so what? What is that the crunched up sail is not going
to have a good flow at the foot as Doug claims.

Joe


You are correct Joe. For best performance you need a deck-sweeping
genny. The vortex along the foot is controlled so drag is lessened. Put
a clear vinyl window in the foot of the sail if you're concerned about
seeing where you're going. But don't have your genny draped over the
life lines. Get them out of the way. Neglecting to do this is typical of
sailors who don't have a clue. Bobsprit hasn't learned a thing about
sailing. He's too busy playing day-care center administrator.

Wilbur Hubbard

Joe wrote:


For Pete's sake, if it bothers you so much you can always drop the
lifelines down to the base of the bow pulpit..many people do that...we
have chafe guards on our lines..little round whellie things that the
sail rides over to keep it from chafing...our sail is a deck
sweeper...having it cut up over the top of the lifelines would mean an
incredible loss of sail area...so it's a tad unsightly, so what? Beats
losing speed...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Drop the life lines forward?

They're still there.. they just run at a slant from the first set of
stanchions to the bottom of the bow pulpit...they are still functional...
Do they toss the lifejackets and liferaft
over too?

You got the wrong picture in your mind...

Why not go with a bigger % forward sail to make up for the loss.

We have a 140....don't have any use for anything larger than that...we
have a light displacement boat and do not sail on head sail
alone..that's not the way our boat is balanced...

Tad unsightly, so what? What is that the crunched up sail is not going
to have a good flow at the foot as Doug claims.

It's not crunched up...it's just a bit crooked....

Joe

"katy" wrote in message
...
Joe wrote:


For Pete's sake, if it bothers you so much you can always drop the
lifelines down to the base of the bow pulpit..many people do
that...we
have chafe guards on our lines..little round whellie things that the
sail rides over to keep it from chafing...our sail is a deck
sweeper...having it cut up over the top of the lifelines would mean
an
incredible loss of sail area...so it's a tad unsightly, so what?
Beats
losing speed...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Drop the life lines forward?

They're still there.. they just run at a slant from the first set of
stanchions to the bottom of the bow pulpit...they are still
functional...
Do they toss the lifejackets and liferaft
over too?

You got the wrong picture in your mind...

Why not go with a bigger % forward sail to make up for the loss.

We have a 140....don't have any use for anything larger than that...we
have a light displacement boat and do not sail on head sail
alone..that's not the way our boat is balanced...

Tad unsightly, so what? What is that the crunched up sail is not
going
to have a good flow at the foot as Doug claims.

It's not crunched up...it's just a bit crooked....

It should never be crunched up or crooked. The foot should run fair.
Have a look at how a real sailor does it.
http://captneal.homestead.com/Thumbsup.html Pay particular attention to
the "close-hauled" picture. Note how the sail sweeps the foredeck and
how the lifelines angle down to the base of the pulpit so there is no
interaction with the sail.

I hope this helps.

Wilbur Hubbard

"katy" wrote in message
...
Joe wrote:
On Aug 21, 8:32 am, wrote:
For Pete's sake, if it bothers you so much you can
always drop the
lifelines down to the base of the bow pulpit..many people
do that...we
have chafe guards on our lines..little round whellie
things that the
sail rides over to keep it from chafing...our sail is a
deck
sweeper...having it cut up over the top of the lifelines
would mean an
incredible loss of sail area...so it's a tad unsightly, so
what? Beats
losing speed...


speed? what would you lose, 1/8 kt? Maybe get to the
anchorage 6 minutes later?

Scotty