Would it not have been smarter to cut the sail where it clears the
rails?

I see this all the time, sail all crunched up on the rails. IIRC even
Robs head sail is cut this way.

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...35s5/Week1.jpg

Even looks bad. Somethings got to go..

Joe

I see this all the time, sail all crunched up on the rails. IIRC even
Robs head sail is cut this way.



A higher cut can clear the rail, but you lose effective sail area on
some tacks and the sail is less useful off the wind in many cases
(less of an issue for Hunters, some fractionals and of course Freedom
boats!) Look at this pic for an example....

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...5/HeartNEW.jpg

This is just before a tack, so you can't really see the sail properly
trimmed, but I think you can see it's a somewhat high cut. It's a 125%
sail. It still catches the rail on some positions and hard on the
wind it may need help coming inboard. The higher cut on a fractional
loses downwind ability and puts the COE up, also effecting balance. I
have a new standard cut 155% coming Thursday that will certainly liven
up the ride well off the wind. It's a deck sweeper and my furler is
below deck.
Hey, you can cut a sail for performance, ease of use...or a little of
both if you're just out there to have fun. I'm pretty happy with my
sails. We've had the chance to sail with a lot of boats and Heart of
Gold is usually the faster boat. She stayed in there with the Santana
and a J30 and on a reach a J40 wasn't going anywhere either.


RB
35s5
NY

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...
Would it not have been smarter to cut the sail where it clears the
rails?

I see this all the time, sail all crunched up on the rails. IIRC even
Robs head sail is cut this way.

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...35s5/Week1.jpg

Even looks bad. Somethings got to go..

Joe



It's an issue a lot. Even on the small lake, the slightly faster boat (the
boats are identical except for lifelines) is the one without the lifelines -
better sail shape. It's typically a very light-wind lake. I see this on the
bay a lot also, although the sails people fly are typically smaller (there's
always some fool running a 130 up wind - well trying).

When I first converted from a hank-on jib to a furler, I was thinking about
getting a 130 with luff tape, but then discovered I had a furler-ready jib
(actually, the previous owner gave it to me). It needed minor modification
to fit the new luff length. He hadn't used it, since the furler he had broke
soon after he bought the boat and he didn't have the cash to replace it, so
he used the hanked sail. The furling sail I now use has a very high foot,
which isn't super great for downwind in light air, but when the heck to we
every get light air out here?! (and I have a drifter just in case). It's
perfect, however, for 20-30 kts air without reefing it. I have three reef
points in my main, so that isn't an issue either, although the third one
doesn't have the lines led.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Aug 20, 5:32 pm, OzOne wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 06:55:58 -0700, Joe
scribbled thusly:

Would it not have been smarter to cut the sail where it clears the
rails?

I see this all the time, sail all crunched up on the rails. IIRC even
Robs head sail is cut this way.

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...35s5/Week1.jpg

Even looks bad. Somethings got to go..

Joe

And sacrifice sail when close hauled?

I would think a properly shaped sail on all points would be the best
all around.
I can see the chaffing taking place clearly.

Is that wrong OZ?

Joe

OzOne wrote:
And sacrifice sail when close hauled?

Everything's a compromise.


Joe wrote:
I would think a properly shaped sail on all points would be the best
all around.

Depends on what you mean by "best."
A genoa with a high-cut foot to clear the bow pulpit & lifelines will
be slower on alll points, less sail area and poor flow around the
foot. Better visibility & less chafe, though. You have to make up your
mind what you want.


I can see the chaffing taking place clearly.


Well, you can avoid that by keeping the sail nice & safe in it's bag.


Is that wrong OZ?


It's only WRONG to think that the loss of speed isn't much (it is) or
that anybody who doesn't have the same priorities as yourself is a
fool.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

On Aug 21, 8:32 am, wrote:
OzOne wrote:
And sacrifice sail when close hauled?

Everything's a compromise.

Joe wrote:
I would think a properly shaped sail on all points would be the best
all around.

Depends on what you mean by "best."

Best all around Doug. Is that too hard a concept for you to envision?

Best means the best shape, and best care, and best preformance. Are
you telling me a crunched up sail dragging the lifelines has good flow
around the foot?



A genoa with a high-cut foot to clear the bow pulpit & lifelines will
be slower on alll points, less sail area and poor flow around the
foot. Better visibility & less chafe, though. You have to make up your
mind what you want.

I can see the chaffing taking place clearly.

Well, you can avoid that by keeping the sail nice & safe in it's bag.

Hey.... for all I care about your sails, you can drag them across a
parking lot, use 40 grit sandpaper to clean them, and fly them where
they always rub everything and are out of the proper shape.


Is that wrong OZ?

It's only WRONG to think that the loss of speed isn't much (it is) or
that anybody who doesn't have the same priorities as yourself is a
fool.


If you are happy with a sail crunched up over a hand rail and or
lifelines feel free to partake. Oh I forgot...you do not have a
sailboat do you?

Joe

Joe wrote:
On Aug 21, 8:32 am, wrote:

OzOne wrote:

And sacrifice sail when close hauled?

Everything's a compromise.

Joe wrote:

I would think a properly shaped sail on all points would be the best
all around.

Depends on what you mean by "best."


Best all around Doug. Is that too hard a concept for you to envision?

Best means the best shape, and best care, and best preformance. Are
you telling me a crunched up sail dragging the lifelines has good flow
around the foot?




A genoa with a high-cut foot to clear the bow pulpit & lifelines will
be slower on alll points, less sail area and poor flow around the
foot. Better visibility & less chafe, though. You have to make up your
mind what you want.


I can see the chaffing taking place clearly.

Well, you can avoid that by keeping the sail nice & safe in it's bag.


Hey.... for all I care about your sails, you can drag them across a
parking lot, use 40 grit sandpaper to clean them, and fly them where
they always rub everything and are out of the proper shape.



Is that wrong OZ?

It's only WRONG to think that the loss of speed isn't much (it is) or
that anybody who doesn't have the same priorities as yourself is a
fool.



If you are happy with a sail crunched up over a hand rail and or
lifelines feel free to partake. Oh I forgot...you do not have a
sailboat do you?

Joe

For Pete's sake, if it bothers you so much you can always drop the
lifelines down to the base of the bow pulpit..many people do that...we
have chafe guards on our lines..little round whellie things that the
sail rides over to keep it from chafing...our sail is a deck
sweeper...having it cut up over the top of the lifelines would mean an
incredible loss of sail area...so it's a tad unsightly, so what? Beats
losing speed...

On Aug 21, 9:48 am, katy wrote:
Joe wrote:
On Aug 21, 8:32 am, wrote:

OzOne wrote:

And sacrifice sail when close hauled?

Everything's a compromise.

Joe wrote:

I would think a properly shaped sail on all points would be the best
all around.

Depends on what you mean by "best."

Best all around Doug. Is that too hard a concept for you to envision?

Best means the best shape, and best care, and best preformance. Are
you telling me a crunched up sail dragging the lifelines has good flow
around the foot?

A genoa with a high-cut foot to clear the bow pulpit & lifelines will
be slower on alll points, less sail area and poor flow around the
foot. Better visibility & less chafe, though. You have to make up your
mind what you want.

I can see the chaffing taking place clearly.

Well, you can avoid that by keeping the sail nice & safe in it's bag.

Hey.... for all I care about your sails, you can drag them across a
parking lot, use 40 grit sandpaper to clean them, and fly them where
they always rub everything and are out of the proper shape.

Is that wrong OZ?

It's only WRONG to think that the loss of speed isn't much (it is) or
that anybody who doesn't have the same priorities as yourself is a
fool.

If you are happy with a sail crunched up over a hand rail and or
lifelines feel free to partake. Oh I forgot...you do not have a
sailboat do you?

Joe

For Pete's sake, if it bothers you so much you can always drop the
lifelines down to the base of the bow pulpit..many people do that...we
have chafe guards on our lines..little round whellie things that the
sail rides over to keep it from chafing...our sail is a deck
sweeper...having it cut up over the top of the lifelines would mean an
incredible loss of sail area...so it's a tad unsightly, so what? Beats
losing speed...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Drop the life lines forward? Do they toss the lifejackets and liferaft
over too?

Why not go with a bigger % forward sail to make up for the loss.
Tad unsightly, so what? What is that the crunched up sail is not going
to have a good flow at the foot as Doug claims.

Joe

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Aug 21, 9:48 am, katy wrote:
Joe wrote:
On Aug 21, 8:32 am, wrote:

OzOne wrote:

And sacrifice sail when close hauled?

Everything's a compromise.

Joe wrote:

I would think a properly shaped sail on all points would be the best
all around.

Depends on what you mean by "best."

Best all around Doug. Is that too hard a concept for you to envision?

Best means the best shape, and best care, and best preformance. Are
you telling me a crunched up sail dragging the lifelines has good flow
around the foot?

A genoa with a high-cut foot to clear the bow pulpit & lifelines will
be slower on alll points, less sail area and poor flow around the
foot. Better visibility & less chafe, though. You have to make up your
mind what you want.

I can see the chaffing taking place clearly.

Well, you can avoid that by keeping the sail nice & safe in it's bag.

Hey.... for all I care about your sails, you can drag them across a
parking lot, use 40 grit sandpaper to clean them, and fly them where
they always rub everything and are out of the proper shape.

Is that wrong OZ?

It's only WRONG to think that the loss of speed isn't much (it is) or
that anybody who doesn't have the same priorities as yourself is a
fool.

If you are happy with a sail crunched up over a hand rail and or
lifelines feel free to partake. Oh I forgot...you do not have a
sailboat do you?

Joe

For Pete's sake, if it bothers you so much you can always drop the
lifelines down to the base of the bow pulpit..many people do that...we
have chafe guards on our lines..little round whellie things that the
sail rides over to keep it from chafing...our sail is a deck
sweeper...having it cut up over the top of the lifelines would mean an
incredible loss of sail area...so it's a tad unsightly, so what? Beats
losing speed...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Drop the life lines forward? Do they toss the lifejackets and liferaft
over too?

Why not go with a bigger % forward sail to make up for the loss.
Tad unsightly, so what? What is that the crunched up sail is not going
to have a good flow at the foot as Doug claims.

Joe

We had a Catalina 27 a few years ago that had the lifelines dropped at the
pulpit. Dumb idea. That's one of the places where they can help you. We had
them re-run. You don't have to worry about lifejackets on Bob's boat
though... he and his guests don't use them...

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Aug 21, 9:48 am, katy wrote:
Joe wrote:
On Aug 21, 8:32 am, wrote:

OzOne wrote:

And sacrifice sail when close hauled?

Everything's a compromise.

Joe wrote:

I would think a properly shaped sail on all points would be the
best
all around.

Depends on what you mean by "best."

Best all around Doug. Is that too hard a concept for you to
envision?

Best means the best shape, and best care, and best preformance. Are
you telling me a crunched up sail dragging the lifelines has good
flow
around the foot?

A genoa with a high-cut foot to clear the bow pulpit & lifelines
will
be slower on alll points, less sail area and poor flow around the
foot. Better visibility & less chafe, though. You have to make up
your
mind what you want.

I can see the chaffing taking place clearly.

Well, you can avoid that by keeping the sail nice & safe in it's
bag.

Hey.... for all I care about your sails, you can drag them across a
parking lot, use 40 grit sandpaper to clean them, and fly them
where
they always rub everything and are out of the proper shape.

Is that wrong OZ?

It's only WRONG to think that the loss of speed isn't much (it is)
or
that anybody who doesn't have the same priorities as yourself is a
fool.

If you are happy with a sail crunched up over a hand rail and or
lifelines feel free to partake. Oh I forgot...you do not have a
sailboat do you?

Joe

For Pete's sake, if it bothers you so much you can always drop the
lifelines down to the base of the bow pulpit..many people do
that...we
have chafe guards on our lines..little round whellie things that the
sail rides over to keep it from chafing...our sail is a deck
sweeper...having it cut up over the top of the lifelines would mean
an
incredible loss of sail area...so it's a tad unsightly, so what?
Beats
losing speed...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Drop the life lines forward? Do they toss the lifejackets and liferaft
over too?

Why not go with a bigger % forward sail to make up for the loss.
Tad unsightly, so what? What is that the crunched up sail is not going
to have a good flow at the foot as Doug claims.

Joe


You are correct Joe. For best performance you need a deck-sweeping
genny. The vortex along the foot is controlled so drag is lessened. Put
a clear vinyl window in the foot of the sail if you're concerned about
seeing where you're going. But don't have your genny draped over the
life lines. Get them out of the way. Neglecting to do this is typical of
sailors who don't have a clue. Bobsprit hasn't learned a thing about
sailing. He's too busy playing day-care center administrator.

Wilbur Hubbard