On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:21:38 GMT, Charlie Morgan
wrote:

Who says he doesn't have it? He more than likely just set 30k as an
arbitrary estimate he'd LIKE to stay within. That doesn't mean it's a
reasonable estimate, or that it is carved in stone. He may have
millions of dollars and just figured he could get a nice live aboard
boat with a 2 foot draft for that amount. In my opinion, his
estimate was wrong.

You're right here, except I sure don't have millions. I actually used
the 30k for three reasons. I can afford it, since I drive old Chevys.
It's the price of a brand new, full equipped Mac 26M.
And if I said 50k, which would be a stretch, I might get
recommendations for 100k, which is out of the question.
You're right - nothing is carved in stone, and thanks again for
pointing me at the Seaward, which I might be able to stretch to.

--Vic

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 16:21:35 -0400, Jeff wrote:

* Vic Smith wrote, On 4/9/2007 10:00 PM:

So scuttling the Mac idea, what do you recommend?
I need = 2' draft, decent live aboard accommodation for 2,
no more than 30k ready-to-go.
No blue water or heavy weather sailing.
Used mostly for gunkholing West Florida and the Keys.
You sure seem to know your boats, so any advice appreciated.


My first choice for this type of cruising was (and is) a catamaran.
However, it will be difficult find one at $30K; the cheapest I've seen
is about $60K for an old, but serviceable cat. This, however, would
be huge compared to a Mac.

My second choice would be something like this:
http://www.marshallcat.com/
The problem with these is that the larger one at 22 feet is too wide
to take long distance on a trailer. (You can still use a trailer, but
it's a wide load and the mast is not easy to step alone.) But you
would be pretty much guarantee that you'd the prettiest boat where
ever you went.

Third choice would be one of the many "clorox bottle" trailer boats,
of which the Mac is the epitome. However, I would also consider a
small powerboat; personally, I probably get more use out of this:
http://www.parkerboats.net/pages/boa....jsp?boatid=18

There a few bits of info you haven't offered us: First, does this
need to be a trailer boat? Second, are you looking for new, gently
used, or a fixer upper? And if your perfect boat stretched your
budget, would you go for it?

Thanks for those suggestions. To answer your questions, I won't tow
a boat, that doesn't mean a trailerable won't have advantages for
haul out and storage. I'm ignorant on that score, and don't know if
the cost advantage (if there is one) of having a trailerable is worth
what is given up in other areas.
It would be new or gently used. I really don't want to have any
serious fix-ups to do. Excellent hull and mechanicals condition are
important to me. Frankly, that is what most attracts me to the Mac,
because at a decent price you get a new, no-surprises boat.
I'm not sold on that, and until I get to Florida and hire/charter some
boats I won't know what's best for me.
The advice I get here will tell me what to look at, and I really
appreciate that advice.
I would stretch my budget if I could justify it.


You have just proven you are a total ignoramus. First you say that an
excellent hull and mechanical condition are important to you. Then you
say that's what attracts you to a MacGregor26M. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha!

Don't you realize that's the same thing as saying a dark, full body
taste and high alcohol content is important to you in a beer and then
saying that's why you're interested in Miller Lite. How stupid are
people getting these days?

1) MacGregor uses the cheapest mechanicals in the boating world known to
man.
2) MacGregor has a well-deserved reputation for thin, oil canning hulls.

As for no surprises . . .

MacGregor 26X/M is anything but a no-surprises boat. For example, you
will be constantly surprised at the laughing, snickering and derision
going on behind your back (from real sailors) for owning one. You will
be surprised at how poorly it sails. You will be surprised at how
ostracized you will be for owning one. You will be surprised at how hard
it is to sell the crummy thing at any kind of a reasonable price (The
market is flooded by used Macs that people can't give away). You will be
surprised at how poorly the thing actually motors in anything but flat
water. You will be surprised how the thing barely manages to sail upwind
in a 20kt breeze and the attendant chop. You will be surprised if the
mast doesn't come down around your head trying to sail in a storm. You
will be surprised at how really uncomfortable the interior is. You will
be surprised at how totally unsuitable it is for living aboard. But,
it's your money. Feel free to squander it in any way you choose.

Wilbur Hubbard

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 16:21:35 -0400, Jeff wrote:

* Vic Smith wrote, On 4/9/2007 10:00 PM:

So scuttling the Mac idea, what do you recommend?
I need = 2' draft, decent live aboard accommodation for 2,
no more than 30k ready-to-go.
No blue water or heavy weather sailing.
Used mostly for gunkholing West Florida and the Keys.
You sure seem to know your boats, so any advice appreciated.


My first choice for this type of cruising was (and is) a catamaran.
However, it will be difficult find one at $30K; the cheapest I've seen
is about $60K for an old, but serviceable cat. This, however, would
be huge compared to a Mac.

My second choice would be something like this:
http://www.marshallcat.com/
The problem with these is that the larger one at 22 feet is too wide
to take long distance on a trailer. (You can still use a trailer, but
it's a wide load and the mast is not easy to step alone.) But you
would be pretty much guarantee that you'd the prettiest boat where
ever you went.

Third choice would be one of the many "clorox bottle" trailer boats,
of which the Mac is the epitome. However, I would also consider a
small powerboat; personally, I probably get more use out of this:
http://www.parkerboats.net/pages/boa....jsp?boatid=18

There a few bits of info you haven't offered us: First, does this
need to be a trailer boat? Second, are you looking for new, gently
used, or a fixer upper? And if your perfect boat stretched your
budget, would you go for it?

Thanks for those suggestions. To answer your questions, I won't tow
a boat, that doesn't mean a trailerable won't have advantages for
haul out and storage. I'm ignorant on that score, and don't know if
the cost advantage (if there is one) of having a trailerable is worth
what is given up in other areas.
It would be new or gently used. I really don't want to have any
serious fix-ups to do. Excellent hull and mechanicals condition are
important to me. Frankly, that is what most attracts me to the Mac,
because at a decent price you get a new, no-surprises boat.
I'm not sold on that, and until I get to Florida and hire/charter some
boats I won't know what's best for me.
The advice I get here will tell me what to look at, and I really
appreciate that advice.
I would stretch my budget if I could justify it.

Thanks again,

--Vic

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:06:30 -0400, Jeff wrote:

You get what you pay for. Is the Mac that much cheaper than a Hunter
25 or Catalina 250? It won't be any more "economical."

I'll check those out. I thought I had rejected them for one reason or
another, but maybe I'm just getting confused (-:

You're doing a real apples to oranges comparison here. Also, you seem
to have some misconception about fuel economy. There is no magic
bullet. If specify a length, weight, and speed, its very easy to
compute the required power and estimated fuel economy. There's
nothing inherently economical about a Mac, except that its very light.
And a Bayliner is only a "gas hog" because its much heavier, and
because its 220 HP engine is not going to be too happy running at 8
knots.

Good points. I really do want something very economical under power,
and gunkholing often means powering. Not interested in speed at all,
and sailing whenever possible fits slow and economy perfectly.
A small diesel seems best, but some interior space is lost.

Any small boat pushed well under hull speed by an 8 HP outboard is
going to be very economical.

That may be the best option in the end.

Thanks,

--Vic

* Vic Smith wrote, On 4/10/2007 6:48 PM:
On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 16:21:35 -0400, Jeff wrote:

* Vic Smith wrote, On 4/9/2007 10:00 PM:
So scuttling the Mac idea, what do you recommend?
I need = 2' draft, decent live aboard accommodation for 2,
no more than 30k ready-to-go.
No blue water or heavy weather sailing.
Used mostly for gunkholing West Florida and the Keys.
You sure seem to know your boats, so any advice appreciated.

My first choice for this type of cruising was (and is) a catamaran.
However, it will be difficult find one at $30K; the cheapest I've seen
is about $60K for an old, but serviceable cat. This, however, would
be huge compared to a Mac.

My second choice would be something like this:
http://www.marshallcat.com/
The problem with these is that the larger one at 22 feet is too wide
to take long distance on a trailer. (You can still use a trailer, but
it's a wide load and the mast is not easy to step alone.) But you
would be pretty much guarantee that you'd the prettiest boat where
ever you went.

Third choice would be one of the many "clorox bottle" trailer boats,
of which the Mac is the epitome. However, I would also consider a
small powerboat; personally, I probably get more use out of this:
http://www.parkerboats.net/pages/boa....jsp?boatid=18

There a few bits of info you haven't offered us: First, does this
need to be a trailer boat? Second, are you looking for new, gently
used, or a fixer upper? And if your perfect boat stretched your
budget, would you go for it?

Thanks for those suggestions. To answer your questions, I won't tow
a boat, that doesn't mean a trailerable won't have advantages for
haul out and storage. I'm ignorant on that score, and don't know if
the cost advantage (if there is one) of having a trailerable is worth
what is given up in other areas.

The ability to haul a boat at a ramp and to stash it anywhere (such as
in your driveway) is pretty big. A downside is that true trailer
boats have a beam under 8'6". On the other hand, you can haul wide
load locally with a simple permit (if you think you need to) so If I
had a boat that would fit on a trailer, I'd probably get one, if only
to have more options if a hurricane is coming.


It would be new or gently used. I really don't want to have any
serious fix-ups to do. Excellent hull and mechanicals condition are
important to me. Frankly, that is what most attracts me to the Mac,
because at a decent price you get a new, no-surprises boat.

Buying new is no guarantee of no-surprises. Trust me, Ive been there.
95% of my new boat worked just fine. The other 5% was a total
disaster. For example, one engine had three emergency service calls
in the first year and a half. All under warranty, all coming during
vacations. One caused a 3 week layover, fortunately in Charleston.
Actually, the first disaster came quick - a clogged fuel 6 hours
after leaving the factory. Normally this wouldn't be a problem, but
the mast was down, the wind was blowing, we were 50 miles from shore,
and I had never seen there engines before. Actually, it took about 3
years to get all the bugs out; its been fine for the last 5 years, and
now things are beginning to wear out. Buying new is not to have all
new stuff, its to have the boat built exactly how you want it.

I'm not sold on that, and until I get to Florida and hire/charter some
boats I won't know what's best for me.

Good thinking.

The advice I get here will tell me what to look at, and I really
appreciate that advice.
I would stretch my budget if I could justify it.

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:48:24 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 16:21:35 -0400, Jeff wrote:

* Vic Smith wrote, On 4/9/2007 10:00 PM:

So scuttling the Mac idea, what do you recommend?
I need = 2' draft, decent live aboard accommodation for 2,
no more than 30k ready-to-go.
No blue water or heavy weather sailing.
Used mostly for gunkholing West Florida and the Keys.
You sure seem to know your boats, so any advice appreciated.


My first choice for this type of cruising was (and is) a catamaran.
However, it will be difficult find one at $30K; the cheapest I've seen
is about $60K for an old, but serviceable cat. This, however, would
be huge compared to a Mac.

My second choice would be something like this:
http://www.marshallcat.com/
The problem with these is that the larger one at 22 feet is too wide
to take long distance on a trailer. (You can still use a trailer, but
it's a wide load and the mast is not easy to step alone.) But you
would be pretty much guarantee that you'd the prettiest boat where
ever you went.

It sure is pretty. To be truthful, I just don't want a 27 year-old
boat, which was the newest I could find.

Third choice would be one of the many "clorox bottle" trailer boats,
of which the Mac is the epitome. However, I would also consider a
small powerboat; personally, I probably get more use out of this:
http://www.parkerboats.net/pages/boa....jsp?boatid=18

If I end up going that route, Wayne pointed me to this, which is nice,
and can be powered "economically." Might be hard to find one I could
afford, but the right 10-15 year-old is doable :
http://www.rosboroughboats.com/leisure.html

--Vic

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message

You can't always get want you want, Scotty. You, more than
anyone
here, should know that.

Vic also wants a sailboat big enough to live aboard, yet
expects it to
draw less than 2 feet. It's possible that he could really
get by with
a boat that draws 4 feet. If he could be happy with a boat
that draws
4 feet, he might find a boat for 30k that fits his other
criteria.


I see, so when someone asks for ;

''I need = 2' draft, decent live aboard accommodation for
2,
no more than 30k ready-to-go.
No blue water or heavy weather sailing.
Used mostly for gunkholing West Florida and the Keys.

you would advise (not advice) them to buy a Hunter 50 ?
Maybe a Swan 70?
Or a 60' Prout?

SBV

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...

You can't always get want you want, Scotty. You, more than
anyone
here, should know that.

But I have everything that I need.



Vic also wants a sailboat big enough to live aboard, yet
expects it to
draw less than 2 feet. It's possible that he could really
get by with
a boat that draws 4 feet. If he could be happy with a boat
that draws
4 feet, he might find a boat for 30k that fits his other
criteria.

Yes, I'm quite sure you know what Vic wants more than he
does.

S

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com..
..
Hey, Scotty ....learn remedial English someday!

Main Entry: 1yacht
Function: noun
Pronunciation: 'yät
Etymology: obsolete Dutch jaght,
: what pretensious wanabees call their sailboat
to impress the local yokels.



Oh, well, it fits....you.

"Vic Smith" wrote in
message ...
On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:12:31 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


"Vic Smith" wrote in
message

It would be new or gently used. I really don't want to
have any
serious fix-ups to do. Excellent hull and mechanicals
condition are
important to me. Frankly, that is what most attracts
me to the Mac,
because at a decent price you get a new, no-surprises
boat.
I'm not sold on that, and until I get to Florida and
hire/charter some
boats I won't know what's best for me.
The advice I get here will tell me what to look at, and
I really
appreciate that advice.
I would stretch my budget if I could justify it.


You have just proven you are a total ignoramus. First you
say that an
excellent hull and mechanical condition are important to
you. Then you
say that's what attracts you to a MacGregor26M. Ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha!

What I meant by that is condition. No balsa cored hull
with rotten
balsa. No chopper gun glass. No diesel blowing smoke or
otherwise
ready to stop. No owner mods to holding tanks that have
let body
wastes saturate already filthy bilges. No moldy, rotten
bulkheads
and cabinetry. No half-assed electrics waiting to short
at the flick
of a switch.
A new boat won't suffer these insults.

A new boat also won't have mauve ( can you say gay) colored
cushions.

Scotty