On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 16:21:35 -0400, Jeff wrote:

* Vic Smith wrote, On 4/9/2007 10:00 PM:

So scuttling the Mac idea, what do you recommend?
I need = 2' draft, decent live aboard accommodation for 2,
no more than 30k ready-to-go.
No blue water or heavy weather sailing.
Used mostly for gunkholing West Florida and the Keys.
You sure seem to know your boats, so any advice appreciated.


My first choice for this type of cruising was (and is) a catamaran.
However, it will be difficult find one at $30K; the cheapest I've seen
is about $60K for an old, but serviceable cat. This, however, would
be huge compared to a Mac.

My second choice would be something like this:
http://www.marshallcat.com/
The problem with these is that the larger one at 22 feet is too wide
to take long distance on a trailer. (You can still use a trailer, but
it's a wide load and the mast is not easy to step alone.) But you
would be pretty much guarantee that you'd the prettiest boat where
ever you went.

Third choice would be one of the many "clorox bottle" trailer boats,
of which the Mac is the epitome. However, I would also consider a
small powerboat; personally, I probably get more use out of this:
http://www.parkerboats.net/pages/boa....jsp?boatid=18

There a few bits of info you haven't offered us: First, does this
need to be a trailer boat? Second, are you looking for new, gently
used, or a fixer upper? And if your perfect boat stretched your
budget, would you go for it?

Thanks for those suggestions. To answer your questions, I won't tow
a boat, that doesn't mean a trailerable won't have advantages for
haul out and storage. I'm ignorant on that score, and don't know if
the cost advantage (if there is one) of having a trailerable is worth
what is given up in other areas.
It would be new or gently used. I really don't want to have any
serious fix-ups to do. Excellent hull and mechanicals condition are
important to me. Frankly, that is what most attracts me to the Mac,
because at a decent price you get a new, no-surprises boat.
I'm not sold on that, and until I get to Florida and hire/charter some
boats I won't know what's best for me.
The advice I get here will tell me what to look at, and I really
appreciate that advice.
I would stretch my budget if I could justify it.

Thanks again,

--Vic

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 16:21:35 -0400, Jeff wrote:

* Vic Smith wrote, On 4/9/2007 10:00 PM:

So scuttling the Mac idea, what do you recommend?
I need = 2' draft, decent live aboard accommodation for 2,
no more than 30k ready-to-go.
No blue water or heavy weather sailing.
Used mostly for gunkholing West Florida and the Keys.
You sure seem to know your boats, so any advice appreciated.


My first choice for this type of cruising was (and is) a catamaran.
However, it will be difficult find one at $30K; the cheapest I've seen
is about $60K for an old, but serviceable cat. This, however, would
be huge compared to a Mac.

My second choice would be something like this:
http://www.marshallcat.com/
The problem with these is that the larger one at 22 feet is too wide
to take long distance on a trailer. (You can still use a trailer, but
it's a wide load and the mast is not easy to step alone.) But you
would be pretty much guarantee that you'd the prettiest boat where
ever you went.

Third choice would be one of the many "clorox bottle" trailer boats,
of which the Mac is the epitome. However, I would also consider a
small powerboat; personally, I probably get more use out of this:
http://www.parkerboats.net/pages/boa....jsp?boatid=18

There a few bits of info you haven't offered us: First, does this
need to be a trailer boat? Second, are you looking for new, gently
used, or a fixer upper? And if your perfect boat stretched your
budget, would you go for it?

Thanks for those suggestions. To answer your questions, I won't tow
a boat, that doesn't mean a trailerable won't have advantages for
haul out and storage. I'm ignorant on that score, and don't know if
the cost advantage (if there is one) of having a trailerable is worth
what is given up in other areas.
It would be new or gently used. I really don't want to have any
serious fix-ups to do. Excellent hull and mechanicals condition are
important to me. Frankly, that is what most attracts me to the Mac,
because at a decent price you get a new, no-surprises boat.
I'm not sold on that, and until I get to Florida and hire/charter some
boats I won't know what's best for me.
The advice I get here will tell me what to look at, and I really
appreciate that advice.
I would stretch my budget if I could justify it.


You have just proven you are a total ignoramus. First you say that an
excellent hull and mechanical condition are important to you. Then you
say that's what attracts you to a MacGregor26M. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha!

Don't you realize that's the same thing as saying a dark, full body
taste and high alcohol content is important to you in a beer and then
saying that's why you're interested in Miller Lite. How stupid are
people getting these days?

1) MacGregor uses the cheapest mechanicals in the boating world known to
man.
2) MacGregor has a well-deserved reputation for thin, oil canning hulls.

As for no surprises . . .

MacGregor 26X/M is anything but a no-surprises boat. For example, you
will be constantly surprised at the laughing, snickering and derision
going on behind your back (from real sailors) for owning one. You will
be surprised at how poorly it sails. You will be surprised at how
ostracized you will be for owning one. You will be surprised at how hard
it is to sell the crummy thing at any kind of a reasonable price (The
market is flooded by used Macs that people can't give away). You will be
surprised at how poorly the thing actually motors in anything but flat
water. You will be surprised how the thing barely manages to sail upwind
in a 20kt breeze and the attendant chop. You will be surprised if the
mast doesn't come down around your head trying to sail in a storm. You
will be surprised at how really uncomfortable the interior is. You will
be surprised at how totally unsuitable it is for living aboard. But,
it's your money. Feel free to squander it in any way you choose.

Wilbur Hubbard

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:12:31 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


"Vic Smith" wrote in message

It would be new or gently used. I really don't want to have any
serious fix-ups to do. Excellent hull and mechanicals condition are
important to me. Frankly, that is what most attracts me to the Mac,
because at a decent price you get a new, no-surprises boat.
I'm not sold on that, and until I get to Florida and hire/charter some
boats I won't know what's best for me.
The advice I get here will tell me what to look at, and I really
appreciate that advice.
I would stretch my budget if I could justify it.


You have just proven you are a total ignoramus. First you say that an
excellent hull and mechanical condition are important to you. Then you
say that's what attracts you to a MacGregor26M. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha!

What I meant by that is condition. No balsa cored hull with rotten
balsa. No chopper gun glass. No diesel blowing smoke or otherwise
ready to stop. No owner mods to holding tanks that have let body
wastes saturate already filthy bilges. No moldy, rotten bulkheads
and cabinetry. No half-assed electrics waiting to short at the flick
of a switch.
A new boat won't suffer these insults.

Don't you realize that's the same thing as saying a dark, full body
taste and high alcohol content is important to you in a beer and then
saying that's why you're interested in Miller Lite. How stupid are
people getting these days?

You can't teach me a thing about beer.

1) MacGregor uses the cheapest mechanicals in the boating world known to
man.

Actually, its main mechanical is the new outboard of choice on the
transom. Anything else I consider mechanical can be upgraded
at low cost. Much easier to do when a prior owner hasn't mucked
up everything or 30 years has taken its toll.

2) MacGregor has a well-deserved reputation for thin, oil canning hulls.

That's a concern, and until I test one against other boats it will
remain one.

As for no surprises . . .

MacGregor 26X/M is anything but a no-surprises boat. For example, you
will be constantly surprised at the laughing, snickering and derision
going on behind your back (from real sailors) for owning one.

No concern there.

You will
be surprised at how poorly it sails.

That's a concern, and until I test one against other boats it will
remain one.

You will be surprised at how
ostracized you will be for owning one.

No concern there.

You will be surprised at how hard
it is to sell the crummy thing at any kind of a reasonable price (The
market is flooded by used Macs that people can't give away).

That would prove an advantage if I go that way, and if it were true.
But looking at used prices, they seem to hold their value.

You will be
surprised at how poorly the thing actually motors in anything but flat
water. You will be surprised how the thing barely manages to sail upwind
in a 20kt breeze and the attendant chop. You will be surprised if the
mast doesn't come down around your head trying to sail in a storm. You
will be surprised at how really uncomfortable the interior is. You will
be surprised at how totally unsuitable it is for living aboard. But,
it's your money. Feel free to squander it in any way you choose.

Those are all concerns, and testing will tell.
Sounds like you've been aboard a Mac under sail and power.
But sound and fury aren't always companions.

--Vic

"Vic Smith" wrote in
message ...
On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:12:31 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


"Vic Smith" wrote in
message

It would be new or gently used. I really don't want to
have any
serious fix-ups to do. Excellent hull and mechanicals
condition are
important to me. Frankly, that is what most attracts
me to the Mac,
because at a decent price you get a new, no-surprises
boat.
I'm not sold on that, and until I get to Florida and
hire/charter some
boats I won't know what's best for me.
The advice I get here will tell me what to look at, and
I really
appreciate that advice.
I would stretch my budget if I could justify it.


You have just proven you are a total ignoramus. First you
say that an
excellent hull and mechanical condition are important to
you. Then you
say that's what attracts you to a MacGregor26M. Ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha!

What I meant by that is condition. No balsa cored hull
with rotten
balsa. No chopper gun glass. No diesel blowing smoke or
otherwise
ready to stop. No owner mods to holding tanks that have
let body
wastes saturate already filthy bilges. No moldy, rotten
bulkheads
and cabinetry. No half-assed electrics waiting to short
at the flick
of a switch.
A new boat won't suffer these insults.

A new boat also won't have mauve ( can you say gay) colored
cushions.

Scotty

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:48:24 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 16:21:35 -0400, Jeff wrote:

* Vic Smith wrote, On 4/9/2007 10:00 PM:

So scuttling the Mac idea, what do you recommend?
I need = 2' draft, decent live aboard accommodation for 2,
no more than 30k ready-to-go.
No blue water or heavy weather sailing.
Used mostly for gunkholing West Florida and the Keys.
You sure seem to know your boats, so any advice appreciated.


My first choice for this type of cruising was (and is) a catamaran.
However, it will be difficult find one at $30K; the cheapest I've seen
is about $60K for an old, but serviceable cat. This, however, would
be huge compared to a Mac.

My second choice would be something like this:
http://www.marshallcat.com/
The problem with these is that the larger one at 22 feet is too wide
to take long distance on a trailer. (You can still use a trailer, but
it's a wide load and the mast is not easy to step alone.) But you
would be pretty much guarantee that you'd the prettiest boat where
ever you went.

It sure is pretty. To be truthful, I just don't want a 27 year-old
boat, which was the newest I could find.

Third choice would be one of the many "clorox bottle" trailer boats,
of which the Mac is the epitome. However, I would also consider a
small powerboat; personally, I probably get more use out of this:
http://www.parkerboats.net/pages/boa....jsp?boatid=18

If I end up going that route, Wayne pointed me to this, which is nice,
and can be powered "economically." Might be hard to find one I could
afford, but the right 10-15 year-old is doable :
http://www.rosboroughboats.com/leisure.html

--Vic

* Vic Smith wrote, On 4/10/2007 6:48 PM:
On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 16:21:35 -0400, Jeff wrote:

* Vic Smith wrote, On 4/9/2007 10:00 PM:
So scuttling the Mac idea, what do you recommend?
I need = 2' draft, decent live aboard accommodation for 2,
no more than 30k ready-to-go.
No blue water or heavy weather sailing.
Used mostly for gunkholing West Florida and the Keys.
You sure seem to know your boats, so any advice appreciated.

My first choice for this type of cruising was (and is) a catamaran.
However, it will be difficult find one at $30K; the cheapest I've seen
is about $60K for an old, but serviceable cat. This, however, would
be huge compared to a Mac.

My second choice would be something like this:
http://www.marshallcat.com/
The problem with these is that the larger one at 22 feet is too wide
to take long distance on a trailer. (You can still use a trailer, but
it's a wide load and the mast is not easy to step alone.) But you
would be pretty much guarantee that you'd the prettiest boat where
ever you went.

Third choice would be one of the many "clorox bottle" trailer boats,
of which the Mac is the epitome. However, I would also consider a
small powerboat; personally, I probably get more use out of this:
http://www.parkerboats.net/pages/boa....jsp?boatid=18

There a few bits of info you haven't offered us: First, does this
need to be a trailer boat? Second, are you looking for new, gently
used, or a fixer upper? And if your perfect boat stretched your
budget, would you go for it?

Thanks for those suggestions. To answer your questions, I won't tow
a boat, that doesn't mean a trailerable won't have advantages for
haul out and storage. I'm ignorant on that score, and don't know if
the cost advantage (if there is one) of having a trailerable is worth
what is given up in other areas.

The ability to haul a boat at a ramp and to stash it anywhere (such as
in your driveway) is pretty big. A downside is that true trailer
boats have a beam under 8'6". On the other hand, you can haul wide
load locally with a simple permit (if you think you need to) so If I
had a boat that would fit on a trailer, I'd probably get one, if only
to have more options if a hurricane is coming.


It would be new or gently used. I really don't want to have any
serious fix-ups to do. Excellent hull and mechanicals condition are
important to me. Frankly, that is what most attracts me to the Mac,
because at a decent price you get a new, no-surprises boat.

Buying new is no guarantee of no-surprises. Trust me, Ive been there.
95% of my new boat worked just fine. The other 5% was a total
disaster. For example, one engine had three emergency service calls
in the first year and a half. All under warranty, all coming during
vacations. One caused a 3 week layover, fortunately in Charleston.
Actually, the first disaster came quick - a clogged fuel 6 hours
after leaving the factory. Normally this wouldn't be a problem, but
the mast was down, the wind was blowing, we were 50 miles from shore,
and I had never seen there engines before. Actually, it took about 3
years to get all the bugs out; its been fine for the last 5 years, and
now things are beginning to wear out. Buying new is not to have all
new stuff, its to have the boat built exactly how you want it.

I'm not sold on that, and until I get to Florida and hire/charter some
boats I won't know what's best for me.

Good thinking.

The advice I get here will tell me what to look at, and I really
appreciate that advice.
I would stretch my budget if I could justify it.