* Joe wrote, On 2/24/2007 1:34 PM:

....
Its clear you learned all you know by reading old West Marine catalogs
you found while dumpster diving.

His condo has 8 dumpsters

His condo IS 8 dumpsters.


First, the is no guarantee you have a windlass, and a windlass does
not imply a chain stopper. And the chain stopper will not
automatically stop the chain from running out.

IMO if you have more than 15 ft of chain you need a windlass.

I'm sorry to hear of your infirmity, Joe. Most people are able to
handle 20 to 30 feet of chain by hand. Admittedly I like having a
windlass on my primary anchor, but the secondary has 20 feet of chain
and I have no problem at all recovering that by hand.


....


The difference, of course, is that with rope
you can cut where ever is convenient, with 100% certainly, and with
a shackle there's a fair chance you'll need time and tools to get it
undone.

If I have a knife... I have a spike. Your slipping Jeff, what kind of
sailor does not have a razor sharp marlin spike knife combo?

Any knife can cut a line under tension. With the setup I describe
there would be some flexibility on where you were able to cut.
However, once a chain is under tension there is only one option on
where you have to undo the shackle; on my boat that would require
lying on deck and hanging over into the locker to reach the shackle.
And odds are, it would twisted around and impossible to reach.

Sorry Joe, you can argue that on some boats this is not a big issue,
but on many it is.



I do not like the ideal of tying off a chain with rope to the padeye.
Then again, I have the strength of steel:0)

Right Joe, you confessed that 15 feet of chain is so heavy that you
need a windlass!

On Feb 24, 2:55 pm, Jeff wrote:
* Joe wrote, On 2/24/2007 1:34 PM:

...

Its clear you learned all you know by reading old West Marine catalogs
you found while dumpster diving.

His condo has 8 dumpsters

His condo IS 8 dumpsters.



First, the is no guarantee you have a windlass, and a windlass does
not imply a chain stopper. And the chain stopper will not
automatically stop the chain from running out.

IMO if you have more than 15 ft of chain you need a windlass.

I'm sorry to hear of your infirmity, Joe. Most people are able to
handle 20 to 30 feet of chain by hand.

can you pull it up if it's buried under a 600 lb rock? Break a plow
that 3 ft under?

Admittedly I like having a
windlass on my primary anchor, but the secondary has 20 feet of chain
and I have no problem at all recovering that by hand.

...

The difference, of course, is that with rope
you can cut where ever is convenient, with 100% certainly, and with
a shackle there's a fair chance you'll need time and tools to get it
undone.

If I have a knife... I have a spike. Your slipping Jeff, what kind of
sailor does not have a razor sharp marlin spike knife combo?

Any knife can cut a line under tension. With the setup I describe
there would be some flexibility on where you were able to cut.
However, once a chain is under tension there is only one option on
where you have to undo the shackle; on my boat that would require
lying on deck and hanging over into the locker to reach the shackle.
And odds are, it would twisted around and impossible to reach.

Sorry Joe, you can argue that on some boats this is not a big issue,
but on many it is.



I do not like the ideal of tying off a chain with rope to the padeye.
Then again, I have the strength of steel:0)

Right Joe, you confessed that 15 feet of chain is so heavy that you
need a windlass!

Not for the weight of the chain Jeff.

BTW I have a windlass and a cat head. A Navy #1 built in 1901. Cast
iron hot galvanized dipped. It will pull the bow under if needed.

Joe

* Joe wrote, On 2/24/2007 7:10 PM:
On Feb 24, 2:55 pm, Jeff wrote:
....
IMO if you have more than 15 ft of chain you need a windlass.
I'm sorry to hear of your infirmity, Joe. Most people are able to
handle 20 to 30 feet of chain by hand.

can you pull it up if it's buried under a 600 lb rock? Break a plow
that 3 ft under?


What does this have to do with chain? Are you claiming that with 15
feet of chain its easy but with 20 feet its impossible?

In any case, I don't rely on the windlass to break out of normal
situations, like deep mud. I shorten up as much as possible, and then
let the boat bob around for a few minutes. It alway works for me.
If it were fouled on a 600 pound rock I'd probably burn out my
windlass trying to haul it.

....

I do not like the ideal of tying off a chain with rope to the padeye.
Then again, I have the strength of steel:0)
Right Joe, you confessed that 15 feet of chain is so heavy that you
need a windlass!

Not for the weight of the chain Jeff.

Feel free to back pedal all you want.


BTW I have a windlass and a cat head. A Navy #1 built in 1901. Cast
iron hot galvanized dipped. It will pull the bow under if needed.

Good for you. It probably weighs more than my windlass and all my
ground tackle put together. Its probably appropriate for your type of
boat.

On Feb 24, 7:14 pm, Jeff wrote:
* Joe wrote, On 2/24/2007 7:10 PM:

On Feb 24, 2:55 pm, Jeff wrote:
...
IMO if you have more than 15 ft of chain you need a windlass.
I'm sorry to hear of your infirmity, Joe. Most people are able to
handle 20 to 30 feet of chain by hand.

can you pull it up if it's buried under a 600 lb rock? Break a plow
that 3 ft under?

What does this have to do with chain? Are you claiming that with 15
feet of chain its easy but with 20 feet its impossible?

In any case, I don't rely on the windlass to break out of normal
situations, like deep mud. I shorten up as much as possible, and then
let the boat bob around for a few minutes. It alway works for me.
If it were fouled on a 600 pound rock I'd probably burn out my
windlass trying to haul it.

...

I do not like the ideal of tying off a chain with rope to the padeye.
Then again, I have the strength of steel:0)
Right Joe, you confessed that 15 feet of chain is so heavy that you
need a windlass!

Not for the weight of the chain Jeff.

Feel free to back pedal all you want.

Back Pedal? It's that last 15-20 ft of chain thats a bitch around
here, the rest is easy, you wanna bust your back go ahead, IIl just
rachet in



BTW I have a windlass and a cat head. A Navy #1 built in 1901. Cast
iron hot galvanized dipped. It will pull the bow under if needed.

Good for you. It probably weighs more than my windlass

only about 180 pounds

and all my
ground tackle put together.


Its probably appropriate for your type of
boat.

Yeah thats why I bought it. 1/2" doubler plate on deck and Monel
strike plate on the hull next to the hawse pipe to keep the flukes
from scratching the steel. Underneath in the locker is a 1" bow stem
plate with a shackle for the bitter end.

Joe

* Joe wrote, On 2/24/2007 10:05 PM:
....
I do not like the ideal of tying off a chain with rope to the padeye.
Then again, I have the strength of steel:0)
Right Joe, you confessed that 15 feet of chain is so heavy that you
need a windlass!
Not for the weight of the chain Jeff.
Feel free to back pedal all you want.

Back Pedal? It's that last 15-20 ft of chain thats a bitch around
here, the rest is easy, you wanna bust your back go ahead, IIl just
rachet in

As I've said, I have a windlass on my primary. However, 15 feet of my
chain is only 15 pounds, so if that's too heavy for you, you have my
condolences. Of course, much depends on the size of the anchor
attached to that chain.

I'll stand by my point. There are lots of boats the should have 20
feet of chain but don't need a windlass.




BTW I have a windlass and a cat head. A Navy #1 built in 1901. Cast
iron hot galvanized dipped. It will pull the bow under if needed.
Good for you. It probably weighs more than my windlass

only about 180 pounds

and all my
ground tackle put together.

Let's see: I have 50 feet of chain, a 35# Delta, 250 feet of line,
Lewmar windlass. That comes out to about 140 pounds. On the other
bow the Delta with rode is about 35 pounds. So your windlass is a bit
more than all my gear. But then, I have a lightweight catamaran and
you have a heavy steel boat.

"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..
Let's see: I have 50 feet of chain, a 35# Delta, 250 feet of line,
Lewmar windlass. That comes out to about 140 pounds. On the other
bow the Delta with rode is about 35 pounds. So your windlass is a bit
more than all my gear. But then, I have a lightweight catamaran and
you have a heavy steel boat.

I wouldn't call a boat that's 85% iron oxide steel. I'd call it a rust
bucket. After all rust is the normal state of steel. Plain old iron
lasts longer. But even a rusty steel boat is preferable to a multihull.

You nut cases who have catamarans or trimarans are as big a joke as your
boats when it comes to anchoring. I've watched you fools and how you
operate.
You motor your boat to the exact spot you want it to be. Then you let go
the chain with such rattling and general commotion that you wake up the
dead. Then you fall way back right out of the spot you wanted to be and
right on top of the leeward anchored boat. The concept that dropping a
hundred feet of chain results in your falling back almost a hundred feet
seems to be beyond your understanding. Then you lean over the bows and
attach a foolish bridle affair using a crude, most often rusty
galvanized chain hook. Then you let out a little more chain so the load
is taken on the bridle contraption. The entire affair is absurd and
laughable. There should be separate anchorages for multihull types.
Such ugly and ungainly vessels wreck an anchorage for those who operated
monohulls and know how to anchor. A real cruising monohull sails into
the anchorage and drops a hook so quietly that unless you're on deck
looking around you never know another boat has anchored until you stick
your head up and look around. I've yet to NOT be aware of a multihull
anchoring as the process is usually accompanied by deafening noise,
revving engines, shouting back and forth by the crew, air pollution,
frequent dragging and inconsiderate spacing.

Wilbur Hubbard

* Wilbur Hubbard wrote, On 2/25/2007 4:15 PM:

"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..
Let's see: I have 50 feet of chain, a 35# Delta, 250 feet of line,
Lewmar windlass. That comes out to about 140 pounds. On the other
bow the Delta with rode is about 35 pounds. So your windlass is a bit
more than all my gear. But then, I have a lightweight catamaran and
you have a heavy steel boat.

I wouldn't call a boat that's 85% iron oxide steel. I'd call it a rust
bucket. After all rust is the normal state of steel. Plain old iron
lasts longer. But even a rusty steel boat is preferable to a multihull.

You nut cases who have catamarans or trimarans are as big a joke as your
boats when it comes to anchoring. I've watched you fools and how you
operate.
You motor your boat to the exact spot you want it to be. Then you let go
the chain with such rattling and general commotion that you wake up the
dead. Then you fall way back right out of the spot you wanted to be and
right on top of the leeward anchored boat. The concept that dropping a
hundred feet of chain results in your falling back almost a hundred feet
seems to be beyond your understanding. Then you lean over the bows and
attach a foolish bridle affair using a crude, most often rusty
galvanized chain hook. Then you let out a little more chain so the load
is taken on the bridle contraption. The entire affair is absurd and
laughable. There should be separate anchorages for multihull types. Such
ugly and ungainly vessels wreck an anchorage for those who operated
monohulls and know how to anchor. A real cruising monohull sails into
the anchorage and drops a hook so quietly that unless you're on deck
looking around you never know another boat has anchored until you stick
your head up and look around. I've yet to NOT be aware of a multihull
anchoring as the process is usually accompanied by deafening noise,
revving engines, shouting back and forth by the crew, air pollution,
frequent dragging and inconsiderate spacing.

That's pathetic, Neal. What happened to you? Did you lose the banana
boat in the hurricanes? This sorry display just reeks of jealousy.
Get a boat, even a Tangerine would be better than nothing.

That's telling him, Wilbur. Worse yet is when they run their
gens all night. What kind of boat do you have? Any pics of
her?

Scotty



"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in
message ...

"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..
Let's see: I have 50 feet of chain, a 35# Delta, 250
feet of line,
Lewmar windlass. That comes out to about 140 pounds.
On the other
bow the Delta with rode is about 35 pounds. So your
windlass is a bit
more than all my gear. But then, I have a lightweight
catamaran and
you have a heavy steel boat.

I wouldn't call a boat that's 85% iron oxide steel. I'd
call it a rust
bucket. After all rust is the normal state of steel. Plain
old iron
lasts longer. But even a rusty steel boat is preferable to
a multihull.

You nut cases who have catamarans or trimarans are as big
a joke as your
boats when it comes to anchoring. I've watched you fools
and how you
operate.
You motor your boat to the exact spot you want it to be.
Then you let go
the chain with such rattling and general commotion that
you wake up the
dead. Then you fall way back right out of the spot you
wanted to be and
right on top of the leeward anchored boat. The concept
that dropping a
hundred feet of chain results in your falling back almost
a hundred feet
seems to be beyond your understanding. Then you lean over
the bows and
attach a foolish bridle affair using a crude, most often
rusty
galvanized chain hook. Then you let out a little more
chain so the load
is taken on the bridle contraption. The entire affair is
absurd and
laughable. There should be separate anchorages for
multihull types.
Such ugly and ungainly vessels wreck an anchorage for
those who operated
monohulls and know how to anchor. A real cruising monohull
sails into
the anchorage and drops a hook so quietly that unless
you're on deck
looking around you never know another boat has anchored
until you stick
your head up and look around. I've yet to NOT be aware of
a multihull
anchoring as the process is usually accompanied by
deafening noise,
revving engines, shouting back and forth by the crew, air
pollution,
frequent dragging and inconsiderate spacing.

Wilbur Hubbard

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:


Wilbur Hubbard


Would that be Wilbur Hubbard the scientologist or Wilbur Hubbard played
by Karl Malden in "Beyond the Poseidon Adventure"?

Cheers
Marty

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com..
..

BTW I have a windlass and a cat head. A Navy #1 built in
1901. Cast
iron hot galvanized dipped. It will pull the bow under if
needed.


Why would you want to do that?

SV