I may have missed a couple over time but that seems to me the first sensible
post I have read about the Mac 26.
So what if it is poor to windward?
People with families avoid going to windward by starting the engine because
the alternative is a lot of grief from ****edoff family members.
And because you can lighten it for trailering by dumping water you are
likely to see more sailing grounds than most people with 'deepwater' boats.
I had a S&S 34' which in a decent wind could leave most boats of that size
for dead going to windward. With double reefed main and no 2 genoa and 30
knots of apparent wind across the deck I had a wonderful beat of 20 miles to
windward on the French Biscay coast. but when we anchored my crew said 'what
an awful experience that was'.
But she still sails with me and now we have a 38' boat of the same type but
I am playing it more carefully and using the engine more as it is not much
fun single handing!
So I am not going to knock anyone who opts for a Mac as long as they do not
claim it can do things it is not designed for.

wrote in message
ups.com...

DSK wrote:
lid wrote:

Funny, I've been looking at the MacGregor for a while now as a
potential
purchase.

Does that mean that you've really bought one already and are
looking for validation?

It seems to me that sailors don't like it because it's not a "real"
sailboat.

I dunno about other sailors, I don't like them because IMHO
they are ugly (a matter of personal taste) and because they
have very poor performance under sail... a matter of well
documented fact, regardless of what the MacGregor
advertising says (they wouldn't LIE would they?!?).

The older Mac26 model (made in the 1980s and early 1990s)
will sail rings around them, as will many other trailerables.



.... I have heard some say it bobs like a cork under sail and that
the
hull is weak.


Supposedly the newer Mac 26-M is stronger built than the old
ones, but that would also make it heavier. A problem for
them under sail is that they are difficult to steer, and
they react badly to any wave action.... "bobs like a cork"
is a fair description but doesn't convey all the
implications.... wet, noisy, heavy yawing, slowed
dramatically by waves.

In my experience, they will only make ground to windward
under a certain range of conditions, if the wind is too
light they can't point and if the wind is too strong, they
have too much windage and get shoved backwards by waves.


..... I probably would never venture farther than
Catalina or the channel islands. I'd also like to sail some of the
lakes like havasu, Powell, etc. so the trailerability of the MacGregor
is appealing.

THere are a LOT of other trailerable boats out there. One
issue is that powerboats with any accomodation are heavy.
You will need a large tow vehicle to pull a powerboat with
accomodations anywhere approaching the Mac-26.

But trailer cruising is very rewarding and you can explore a
lot of places. Shallow draft is one of the benefits that
goes along with trailerability, often not appreciated until
you "move up" to a big keel boat and realize how many places
you can't go in it.

Family of 4 up to 1 week trips once or twice a year. I
wouldn't consider myself the fair weather type; as skills progress I'd
sail year around in as much weather as the ship and her captain are
capable of.


The ship is always more capable than the captain (and/or crew).

Opinions?


Get either a motorboat or a sailboat, trailerable is a very
good call, and get out there on the water. The Mac-26 is
neither, it's really a floatable camper trailer, with a very
vocal cult following. If you want to join the cult (or have
already joined), that's fine too. We will probably see at
least a few angry replies to this post as an example.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

I think the MAc26 is done reasonably well for such a compromise. Like
any compromise, it doesnt favor either motor or sail very well but
people buy it knowing it is a compromise. Consider "motor sailers",
they sure do not sail well but few people criticize them. Consider the
Morgan OI series, not only do they look like hell but sail poorly too
but people buy them for their roominess. Buying the Mac26 for its
compromise is a legit decision. I'd be willing to bet that mac26
owners boat in more places than 99% of other sail boats. As far as
safety is concerned, I'd say that its ability to get out of the way of
bad weather with speed and its ability to anchor in very shallow
protected places actually make it safer than a deep keel conventional
sailboat.
Many of us with "real" sailboats also own "real" powerboats and know
the pains of owning two boats. Owning just one would be nice.
This argument about the Mac26 reminds me of an argument over whether a
friend should buy a pontoon boat for his family. Many people toild him
"No" cuz a pontoon boat was not a "real" powerboat and it wasn't
seaworthy. He bought the pontoon boat and does more boating with it
than the rest of us but he restricts himself to appropriate places and
weather.
I say, "Buy the Mac26 and enjoy it.You'll do more sailing in unusual
places than those of us with heavier non-trailerable sailboats. You
will keep peace in your family which is a serious consideration".

wrote in message
...
Funny, I've been looking at the MacGregor


Yeah, they are kinda funny looking.




for a while now as a potential
purchase. I would really like a sail boat but the family
wants a power
boat. I occasionally sail on a friends 1929(?) wood hull
sailboat and
that is the life for me. My family likes our other
friends 21 ft
Chris-Craft.


We used to go camping with a family that had a power boat.
My wife & kids would go sking with him while his wife and
kids went sailing with me. Worked out great.




It seems to me that sailors don't like it because it's not
a "real"
sailboat. Powerboaters don't like it because it isn't a
"real" power
boat and then there are those with them who more or less
seem to like
them. I have heard some say it bobs like a cork under
sail and that the
hull is weak.


They are ''lightly built'', makes them easier to trailer and
cheaper to buy. IMHO they are good for lakes and protected
waters.


Certainly there are compromises made just like an enduro
will never be a
great dirt bike or a great road bike but, it has it's
place. The
question is, how is the MacGregor? I'd like to do coastal
sailing in
Southern California. I probably would never venture
farther than
Catalina or the channel islands. I'd also like to sail
some of the
lakes like havasu, Powell, etc. so the trailerability of
the MacGregor
is appealing. Family of 4 up to 1 week trips once or
twice a year. I
wouldn't consider myself the fair weather type; as skills
progress I'd
sail year around in as much weather as the ship and her
captain are
capable of.


Buy a better sailing trailerable. Rent jet-skis for your
kids.

Seriously, can you afford a small sail boat AND a small
power boat?


--
Scott Vernon
Plowville Pa _/)__/)_/)_

lid wrote:

Funny, I've been looking at the MacGregor for a while now as a potential
purchase. I would really like a sail boat but the family wants a power
boat. I occasionally sail on a friends 1929(?) wood hull sailboat and
that is the life for me. My family likes our other friends 21 ft
Chris-Craft.

It seems to me that sailors don't like it because it's not a "real"
sailboat. Powerboaters don't like it because it isn't a "real" power
boat and then there are those with them who more or less seem to like
them. I have heard some say it bobs like a cork under sail and that the
hull is weak.

Certainly there are compromises made just like an enduro will never be a
great dirt bike or a great road bike but, it has it's place. The
question is, how is the MacGregor? I'd like to do coastal sailing in
Southern California. I probably would never venture farther than
Catalina or the channel islands. I'd also like to sail some of the
lakes like havasu, Powell, etc. so the trailerability of the MacGregor
is appealing. Family of 4 up to 1 week trips once or twice a year. I
wouldn't consider myself the fair weather type; as skills progress I'd
sail year around in as much weather as the ship and her captain are
capable of.

Opinions?
Carl


Before getting our 26M, I had experience over some 30 years sailing a
number of larger, conventional boats, including an Endeavor 32, a
Beneteau 39, O'Day 38-39, several Catalinas, a Cal 32, and a 40-ft
Valiant staysail-rigged sloop (my favorite). So, I am well-aware that
the Mac 26M has limitations when compared to such larger, conventional
boats. It it's hull speed isn't as great, and it normally doesn't point
as high, as heavy conventional-keel boats with longer waterlines, such
as the Valiant 40. On the other hand, the 26M is a lot of fun to sail,
and it offers a number of capabilies not available on most conventional
vessels.

As with any small, light boat, it's not as comfortable in heavy weather
conditions as a heavier, conventional weighted keel vessel. So, if your
plans entail taking the boat offshore on extended cruises, I would
suggest you look at larger, heavier boats. Because of its size, I
wouldn't plan on sleeping five or six people onboard for several weeks.
Regarding the "feel" of the Mac's steering, many of us have installed a
linkage system permitting convenient "quick disconnect" of the steering
linkage from the motor, which greatly reduces the load on the steering
and enhances the "feel" and control under sail. I would also recommend
roller furling and convenient mainsail furling, with lines led aft.

As you have noticed, there are lots of opinions, pro and con, concerning
the Macs. In evaluating them, I would suggest that you give greater
attention to comments from folks who have actually sailed the current
Mac 26 model (the Mac 26M, sold since 2003). Changes in the current
model include a new hull with heavier construction, a vertically
adjustable dagger board (rather than a pivotal keel), ballast consisting
of permanent and water ballast (rather than just water ballast),
rotatable mast, taller mast and narrower mainsail profile, new chain
plate construction, etc. The vertically adjustable dagger board, for
example, provides better control and higher pointing than the pivotal
keel of older Mac boats. Although the Mac26M still isn't as good upwind
as a larger boat with conventional, weighted keel, and (horrors), some
larger boats may pass you, the boat is still lots of fun to sail. It's
also fun to motor back to the marina at 15 knots at the end of a long
hot day when the wind has gone or is in your face.

Obviously, you can't trailer a heavy boat such as the 40-foot Valiant
easily to another sailing location, and there are places the Mac can go
that the Valiant couldn't. Regarding it's speed under power, if you want
to do 20mph easily with full load and water ballast, some Mac owners are
opting for a 70hp 2-cycle (lightweight) or larger motor.

Ultimately, it boils down to what you want to do with the boat and
what's important to you. If you have unlimited funds, then getting a
power boat and a large, conventional sailboat, and paying for slips for
each, makes sense.

The bottom line to me is that it's simply fun (and convenient) to sail.

Jim

"JimC" wrote
| Ultimately, it boils down to what you want to do with the boat and
| what's important to you. If you have unlimited funds, then getting a
| power boat and a large, conventional sailboat, and paying for slips for
| each, makes sense.

It's a good boat if you want to go out and have people pointing at you behind your back
and laughing and thinking to themselves, "What an idiot!" And, "He coulda spent that money
on a good used sailboat and had something to be proud of." And, "I guess he doesn't care
about safety." "I guess he has no idea how silly he looks to everybody." Did you ever look
real good at a knee boarder. He's looking like some kinda retarded cripple bouncing up and
down at the end of a string. That's what Mac26s look like to me.....
JimC, maybe a person who doesn't care what other people think. But, I doubt it. If you
were you wouldn't spend so much time here trying to convince people that Mac26s are
anything but the *retarded cripple* of sailboats.

Cheers,
Ellen

Ellen MacArthur wrote:

"JimC" wrote
| Ultimately, it boils down to what you want to do with the boat and
| what's important to you. If you have unlimited funds, then getting a
| power boat and a large, conventional sailboat, and paying for slips for
| each, makes sense.

It's a good boat if you want to go out and have people pointing at you behind your back
and laughing and thinking to themselves, "What an idiot!" And, "He coulda spent that money
on a good used sailboat and had something to be proud of." And, "I guess he doesn't care
about safety." "I guess he has no idea how silly he looks to everybody." Did you ever look
real good at a knee boarder. He's looking like some kinda retarded cripple bouncing up and
down at the end of a string. That's what Mac26s look like to me.....
JimC, maybe a person who doesn't care what other people think. But, I doubt it. If you
were you wouldn't spend so much time here trying to convince people that Mac26s are
anything but the *retarded cripple* of sailboats.

Actually, it takes at least two people to keep a discussion going,
Ellen. If you don't like my comments, you don't have to answer them. In
fact, you don't even have to read them. If you weren't so obviously
frustrated because you keep getting your ass kicked all over the ng, you
would have lost interest in Mac discussions long ago.

Jim

Jim... fyi, Ellen=Neal

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"JimC" wrote in message
m...


Ellen MacArthur wrote:

"JimC" wrote | Ultimately, it boils down to what
you want to do with the boat and | what's important to you. If you have
unlimited funds, then getting a | power boat and a large, conventional
sailboat, and paying for slips for | each, makes sense.

It's a good boat if you want to go out and have people pointing at
you behind your back and laughing and thinking to themselves, "What an
idiot!" And, "He coulda spent that money on a good used sailboat and had
something to be proud of." And, "I guess he doesn't care about safety."
"I guess he has no idea how silly he looks to everybody." Did you ever
look
real good at a knee boarder. He's looking like some kinda retarded
cripple bouncing up and down at the end of a string. That's what Mac26s
look like to me.....
JimC, maybe a person who doesn't care what other people think. But, I
doubt it. If you were you wouldn't spend so much time here trying to
convince people that Mac26s are
anything but the *retarded cripple* of sailboats.

Actually, it takes at least two people to keep a discussion going, Ellen.
If you don't like my comments, you don't have to answer them. In fact, you
don't even have to read them. If you weren't so obviously frustrated
because you keep getting your ass kicked all over the ng, you would have
lost interest in Mac discussions long ago.

Jim

"JimC" wrote
| Actually, it takes at least two people to keep a discussion going,
| Ellen. If you don't like my comments, you don't have to answer them. In
| fact, you don't even have to read them. If you weren't so obviously
| frustrated because you keep getting your ass kicked all over the ng, you
| would have lost interest in Mac discussions long ago.

But I like your comments. They're so typical. They sound just like anybody who's trying to
talk himself into believing he didn't screw up royally. You can hear comments like you make
all the time. It can be about a boat, a car, a movie, a hamburger. It can be about anything you
spend money on. Only difference is the more money people spend the harder they try to
convince themselves they spent it wisely. You musta paid a million dollars for your Mac26. :-)

Cheers,
Ellen

lid wrote:

Funny, I've been looking at the MacGregor for a while now as a potential
purchase. I would really like a sail boat but the family wants a power
boat. I occasionally sail on a friends 1929(?) wood hull sailboat and
that is the life for me. My family likes our other friends 21 ft
Chris-Craft.

It seems to me that sailors don't like it because it's not a "real"
sailboat. Powerboaters don't like it because it isn't a "real" power
boat and then there are those with them who more or less seem to like
them. I have heard some say it bobs like a cork under sail and that the
hull is weak.

Certainly there are compromises made just like an enduro will never be a
great dirt bike or a great road bike but, it has it's place. The
question is, how is the MacGregor? I'd like to do coastal sailing in
Southern California. I probably would never venture farther than
Catalina or the channel islands. I'd also like to sail some of the
lakes like havasu, Powell, etc. so the trailerability of the MacGregor
is appealing. Family of 4 up to 1 week trips once or twice a year. I
wouldn't consider myself the fair weather type; as skills progress I'd
sail year around in as much weather as the ship and her captain are
capable of.

Opinions?
Carl


Before getting our 26M, I had experience, over some 30 years, sailing a
number of larger, conventional boats, including an Endeavor 32, a
Beneteau 39, O'Day 38-39, several Catalinas, a Cal 32, and a 40-ft
Valiant staysail-rigged sloop (my favorite). So, I am well-aware that
the Mac 26M has some limitations when compared to such larger,
conventional boats. It it's hull speed isn't as great, and it normally
doesn't point as high, as heavy conventional-keel boats with longer
waterlines, such as the Valiant 40. On the other hand, the 26M offers a
number of capabilies not available on most conventional
vessels.

As with any small, light boat, it's not as comfortable in heavy weather
conditions as a heavier, conventional weighted keel vessel. So, if your
plans entail taking the boat offshore on extended cruises, I would
suggest you look at larger, heavier boats. Because of its size, I
don't think you should plan on sleeping five or six people onboard for
several weeks. Regarding the "feel" of the Mac's steering, many of us
have installed a linkage system permitting convenient "quick disconnect"
of the steering linkage from the motor, which greatly reduces the load
on the steering and enhances the "feel" and control under sail. I would
also recommend roller furling and convenient mainsail furling, with
lines led aft.

As you have noticed, there are lots of opinions, pro and con, concerning
the Macs. In evaluating them, I would suggest that you give greater
attention to comments from folks who have actually sailed the current
Mac 26 model (the Mac 26M, sold since 2003). Changes in the current
model include a new hull with heavier construction, a vertically
adjustable dagger board (rather than a pivotal keel), ballast consisting
of permanent and water ballast (rather than just water ballast),
rotatable mast, taller mast and narrower mainsail profile, new chain
plate construction, etc. The vertically adjustable dagger board, for
example, provides better control and higher pointing than the pivotal
keel of older Mac boats. So, the Mac26M still isn't as fast upwind
as a larger boat with conventional, weighted keel, and (horrors), some
larger boats may pass you, the boat, it's still lots of fun to sail.
It's also fun to motor back to the marina at 15 knots at the end of a
long hot day when the wind has gone or is in your face.

Obviously, you can't trailer a heavy boat such as the 40-foot Valiant
easily to another sailing location, and there are places the Mac can go
that the Valiant couldn't. Regarding it's speed under power, if you want
to do 20mph easily with full load and water ballast, some Mac owners are
opting for a 70hp 2-cycle (lightweight) or larger motor.

Ultimately, it boils down to what you want to do with the boat and
what's important to you. If you have unlimited funds, then getting a
power boat and a large, conventional sailboat, and paying for slips for
each, makes sense.

The bottom line to me is that it's simply fun (and convenient) to sail.

Jim

I think perhaps you're missing the point in some respects. While *you* may
have varied and deep experience with sailing, *most* Mac owners don't. This
is probably true of most new boat owners, of course. And, the point is that
these new owners with little or no sailing experience are not getting a boat
that can stand up to many of the rigors of what one can encounter. The boats
should be used primarily in protected waters in mild conditions. That
doesn't mean you can't do more with them. That's true off all boats. These
new owners with limited or no experience are in danger of getting in over
their heads if they think these boats are up to sailing in conditions beyond
protected and mild.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"JimC" wrote in message
. ..


lid wrote:

Funny, I've been looking at the MacGregor for a while now as a potential
purchase. I would really like a sail boat but the family wants a power
boat. I occasionally sail on a friends 1929(?) wood hull sailboat and
that is the life for me. My family likes our other friends 21 ft
Chris-Craft.

It seems to me that sailors don't like it because it's not a "real"
sailboat. Powerboaters don't like it because it isn't a "real" power
boat and then there are those with them who more or less seem to like
them. I have heard some say it bobs like a cork under sail and that the
hull is weak.

Certainly there are compromises made just like an enduro will never be a
great dirt bike or a great road bike but, it has it's place. The
question is, how is the MacGregor? I'd like to do coastal sailing in
Southern California. I probably would never venture farther than
Catalina or the channel islands. I'd also like to sail some of the lakes
like havasu, Powell, etc. so the trailerability of the MacGregor is
appealing. Family of 4 up to 1 week trips once or twice a year. I
wouldn't consider myself the fair weather type; as skills progress I'd
sail year around in as much weather as the ship and her captain are
capable of.

Opinions?
Carl


Before getting our 26M, I had experience, over some 30 years, sailing a
number of larger, conventional boats, including an Endeavor 32, a
Beneteau 39, O'Day 38-39, several Catalinas, a Cal 32, and a 40-ft
Valiant staysail-rigged sloop (my favorite). So, I am well-aware that
the Mac 26M has some limitations when compared to such larger,
conventional boats. It it's hull speed isn't as great, and it normally
doesn't point as high, as heavy conventional-keel boats with longer
waterlines, such as the Valiant 40. On the other hand, the 26M offers a
number of capabilies not available on most conventional
vessels.

As with any small, light boat, it's not as comfortable in heavy weather
conditions as a heavier, conventional weighted keel vessel. So, if your
plans entail taking the boat offshore on extended cruises, I would
suggest you look at larger, heavier boats. Because of its size, I
don't think you should plan on sleeping five or six people onboard for
several weeks. Regarding the "feel" of the Mac's steering, many of us have
installed a linkage system permitting convenient "quick disconnect" of the
steering linkage from the motor, which greatly reduces the load on the
steering and enhances the "feel" and control under sail. I would also
recommend roller furling and convenient mainsail furling, with lines led
aft.

As you have noticed, there are lots of opinions, pro and con, concerning
the Macs. In evaluating them, I would suggest that you give greater
attention to comments from folks who have actually sailed the current
Mac 26 model (the Mac 26M, sold since 2003). Changes in the current
model include a new hull with heavier construction, a vertically
adjustable dagger board (rather than a pivotal keel), ballast consisting
of permanent and water ballast (rather than just water ballast),
rotatable mast, taller mast and narrower mainsail profile, new chain
plate construction, etc. The vertically adjustable dagger board, for
example, provides better control and higher pointing than the pivotal
keel of older Mac boats. So, the Mac26M still isn't as fast upwind
as a larger boat with conventional, weighted keel, and (horrors), some
larger boats may pass you, the boat, it's still lots of fun to sail. It's
also fun to motor back to the marina at 15 knots at the end of a long hot
day when the wind has gone or is in your face.

Obviously, you can't trailer a heavy boat such as the 40-foot Valiant
easily to another sailing location, and there are places the Mac can go
that the Valiant couldn't. Regarding it's speed under power, if you want
to do 20mph easily with full load and water ballast, some Mac owners are
opting for a 70hp 2-cycle (lightweight) or larger motor.

Ultimately, it boils down to what you want to do with the boat and
what's important to you. If you have unlimited funds, then getting a
power boat and a large, conventional sailboat, and paying for slips for
each, makes sense.

The bottom line to me is that it's simply fun (and convenient) to sail.

Jim

Capt. JG wrote:

I think perhaps you're missing the point in some respects. While *you* may
have varied and deep experience with sailing, *most* Mac owners don't. This
is probably true of most new boat owners, of course. And, the point is that
these new owners with little or no sailing experience are not getting a boat
that can stand up to many of the rigors of what one can encounter. The boats
should be used primarily in protected waters in mild conditions. That
doesn't mean you can't do more with them. That's true off all boats. These
new owners with limited or no experience are in danger of getting in over
their heads if they think these boats are up to sailing in conditions beyond
protected and mild.





As stated on November 5 ("Yesterday's Sail"), I agree that most
MacGregor owners probably aren't as experienced as owners of larger
boats. And that could be a cause for concern if they don't have enough
training, know-how, and experience to avoid getting into conditions
beyond their skill levels or the boats' capabilities. On the whole,
however, I think that most (not all) MacGregor owners are aware of those
limitations and are aware of the fact that the Macs aren't intended as
ocean crossing boats suited for sailing in heavy offshore weather.
(Actually, I think most Mac owners are somewhat overcautious about
taking their boats out in marginal conditions.) Of course, there will
always be exceptions who either don't know what they are doing or don't
care about the safety factors.

The point of mentioning my prior sailing experience on larger boats was
to make it clear that my opinion of the Mac isn't the opinion of a new
sailor who has no experience on other boats and therefore no reference
for comparison. As stated before, I do recognize that the Macs have
limitations, that they normally don't sail upwind as well as larger,
conventional keel boats, and that they aren't suited for every application.

Jim