In article . net,
Maxprop wrote:

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 16:19:21 GMT, "Maxprop"
scribbled thusly:


"jlr" one wrote in message
.net...
In the USA? How many times were you shot at? Did the muggers take all
your cash? Any rednecks kick your ass? Any racists ASSUALT YOUR WIFE?

Relax, JR. There is a general rule regarding those who love to rip on the
United States: they choose to visit here because of the substantial
quantity of resources and attractions we have to offer, and they
subsequently discover that this really is not an unsafe place to be,
provided you don't stupidly or deliberately put yourself in harm's way.
To
the contrary they discover that their vacations come off without a hitch,
are enjoyable, and often exceed their expectations.
Of course, You have a beautiful country with scenery and possibility
for adventure that is absolutely astounding.
Unfortunately you also have sewers like Los Angeles.

Of course they return home and resume their diatribe against the USA.
Their
like-minded friends just love to hear how awful and dangerous this country
is.
You need to get out more....

Then there's Mooron, who's worried about retinal scans and such. I think
he
must have something in his past that he doesn't want uncovered. g

Either that or he is happy where he is

That is certainly reasonable.

and unwilling to go through the
charade of US Customs and Security.

Get a life. We go through it every time we board a plane. It's a minor
inconvenience, if stupidly ineffective and annoying. But for Mooron to deny
himself of the wonderful places and opportunities this country has to offer,
strictly on principle or to avoid being inconvenienced in a minor way, is
penalizing only him. None of us give a rat's posterior if he enters the US
or not.

Ummm, Max, it's not penalizing Mooron at all. It's a big world out
there, lotta interesting places. Perhaps you should get out more. I
liked it when I lived in the USA, but if I never go back I won't really
care. I suspect Mooron feels much the same way.

This isn't meant as a putdown for the USA, BTW, unless you really do
think it's the centre of the universe and that everyone is desperate to
go there. I feel exactly the same way about Jakarta and Honiara, and to
a lesser extent, Sydney. All places where I've lived for quite some
time. BT, DT, got the shirts.....

You guys have every right to run any immigration regime you like. I
don't care. Japan has fingerprinted foreign residents for the last 30+
years, AFAIK, However, when places like Brazil start fingerprinting and
treating US visitors like you guys do to other foreign nationals, I
don't expect to hear any moaning about it. OK?

Not like it's going to make a difference to dedicated terrorists trying
to get into the USA. I used to live in Tucson, illegals crossing the
border didn't even make the news unless they died in the desert or
something.

PDW

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..


Ummm, Max, it's not penalizing Mooron at all. It's a big world out
there, lotta interesting places.

Certainly, but the US sits on his nearby southern border. Jakarta doesn't.
I enter Canada from two to five times per year, and its disappointing that
the border constraints are in place, but that won't stop me. Petty
bureaucracies exist in nearly every place in the world, and unless you
choose to become a self-isolationist you simply deal with them and go about
your business.

But this really has nothing to do with Moroon's inconvenience or his
principles. He loves to grind the anti-US axe with those of us here from
the US. So does Ozzy. It seems to be their cyber recreational pleasure of
late. And we'd be remiss if we didn't call them on it--hell, they'd find no
pleasure at all in a one-sided diatribe with no opposition. So in my own
way I'm making it possible for you, Moroon and Ozzy to enjoy your time on
ASA. You can thank me now or later.

Max

"Maxprop" wrote in message

Certainly, but the US sits on his nearby southern border. Jakarta
doesn't. I enter Canada from two to five times per year, and its
disappointing that the border constraints are in place, but that won't
stop me. Petty bureaucracies exist in nearly every place in the world,
and unless you choose to become a self-isolationist you simply deal with
them and go about your business.

Seems to me you assume that because you find Canada worth visiting
repeatitly... I should feel the same way about the USA. I don't..... and
you shouldn't take that personally... get all insulted, and claim I'm anti
American.


But this really has nothing to do with Moroon's inconvenience or his
principles. He loves to grind the anti-US axe with those of us here from
the US. So does Ozzy. It seems to be their cyber recreational pleasure
of late. And we'd be remiss if we didn't call them on it--hell, they'd
find no pleasure at all in a one-sided diatribe with no opposition. So in
my own way I'm making it possible for you, Moroon and Ozzy to enjoy your
time on ASA. You can thank me now or later.

Max.... if you consider getting fingerprinted merely an inconvenience... we
just have to agree to disagree. I can supply security documentation and
references... but this is not adequate to satisfy the US Customs. If I view
their requirements as beyond that which I am willing to provide.... how can
you state that as anti American? Does my personal decision offend your
national pride? What makes you think I am short changing myself because I
refuse to comply with a ridiculous request? I wouldn't travel to any country
requiring that level of infringement on my privacy and freedoms.

CM

Awwww quit your whining...ya sound like a Yank.

Scotty


"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:VIuLf.2314$M52.1274@edtnps89...

"Maxprop" wrote in message

Certainly, but the US sits on his nearby southern
border. Jakarta
doesn't. I enter Canada from two to five times per year,
and its
disappointing that the border constraints are in place,
but that won't
stop me. Petty bureaucracies exist in nearly every
place in the world,
and unless you choose to become a self-isolationist you
simply deal with
them and go about your business.

Seems to me you assume that because you find Canada worth
visiting
repeatitly... I should feel the same way about the USA. I
don't..... and
you shouldn't take that personally... get all insulted,
and claim I'm anti
American.


But this really has nothing to do with Moroon's
inconvenience or his
principles. He loves to grind the anti-US axe with
those of us here from
the US. So does Ozzy. It seems to be their cyber
recreational pleasure
of late. And we'd be remiss if we didn't call them on
it--hell, they'd
find no pleasure at all in a one-sided diatribe with no
opposition. So in
my own way I'm making it possible for you, Moroon and
Ozzy to enjoy your
time on ASA. You can thank me now or later.

Max.... if you consider getting fingerprinted merely an
inconvenience... we
just have to agree to disagree. I can supply security
documentation and
references... but this is not adequate to satisfy the US
Customs. If I view
their requirements as beyond that which I am willing to
provide.... how can
you state that as anti American? Does my personal decision
offend your
national pride? What makes you think I am short changing
myself because I
refuse to comply with a ridiculous request? I wouldn't
travel to any country
requiring that level of infringement on my privacy and
freedoms.

CM

For thirty years I traveled every week in the US by air. Sometimes 3 cities
a week. I gave it up in 2004 because of 'Homeland Security." I no longer
fly because of the "security." I will not be treated in the degrading and
officious manner that is now imposed on flying passangers. With my
temperment, it would just be a matter of time before I decked one of those
officious *******s.




"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:VIuLf.2314$M52.1274@edtnps89...

"Maxprop" wrote in message

Certainly, but the US sits on his nearby southern border. Jakarta
doesn't. I enter Canada from two to five times per year, and its
disappointing that the border constraints are in place, but that won't
stop me. Petty bureaucracies exist in nearly every place in the world,
and unless you choose to become a self-isolationist you simply deal with
them and go about your business.

Seems to me you assume that because you find Canada worth visiting
repeatitly... I should feel the same way about the USA. I don't..... and
you shouldn't take that personally... get all insulted, and claim I'm anti
American.


But this really has nothing to do with Moroon's inconvenience or his
principles. He loves to grind the anti-US axe with those of us here from
the US. So does Ozzy. It seems to be their cyber recreational pleasure
of late. And we'd be remiss if we didn't call them on it--hell, they'd
find no pleasure at all in a one-sided diatribe with no opposition. So
in my own way I'm making it possible for you, Moroon and Ozzy to enjoy
your time on ASA. You can thank me now or later.

Max.... if you consider getting fingerprinted merely an inconvenience...
we just have to agree to disagree. I can supply security documentation and
references... but this is not adequate to satisfy the US Customs. If I
view their requirements as beyond that which I am willing to provide....
how can you state that as anti American? Does my personal decision offend
your national pride? What makes you think I am short changing myself
because I refuse to comply with a ridiculous request? I wouldn't travel to
any country requiring that level of infringement on my privacy and
freedoms.

CM

This is not merely restricted to your country Jl.... I have also toned down
my air travel in Canada. It's just plain ridiculous at times..... they
consider a nail clipper a lethal weapon!! I had to bite my tongue to refrain
from pointing out that I could beat 3/4 of the passengers on the flight into
a coma with my bare hands before I would consider deploying my "lethal nail
clipper"! I bet 4 men with Navy Seals training could take over a plane in
very little time with no weapons at all.

I can understand and respect proactive security measures..... but what they
are implementing is beyond bordering on ridiculous and I believe it is
nothing more than a facade.

The requirements for travel to the USA reeks of information gathering and
infringement of privacy... not to mention a gross trampling of individual
freedoms.

The very name "Homeland Security" resonates pre cold war Russia / Nazi
Germany.

CM

"jlrogers" wrote in message
. com...
For thirty years I traveled every week in the US by air. Sometimes 3
cities a week. I gave it up in 2004 because of 'Homeland Security." I no
longer fly because of the "security." I will not be treated in the
degrading and officious manner that is now imposed on flying passangers.
With my temperment, it would just be a matter of time before I decked one
of those officious *******s.




"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:VIuLf.2314$M52.1274@edtnps89...

"Maxprop" wrote in message

Certainly, but the US sits on his nearby southern border. Jakarta
doesn't. I enter Canada from two to five times per year, and its
disappointing that the border constraints are in place, but that won't
stop me. Petty bureaucracies exist in nearly every place in the world,
and unless you choose to become a self-isolationist you simply deal with
them and go about your business.

Seems to me you assume that because you find Canada worth visiting
repeatitly... I should feel the same way about the USA. I don't..... and
you shouldn't take that personally... get all insulted, and claim I'm
anti American.


But this really has nothing to do with Moroon's inconvenience or his
principles. He loves to grind the anti-US axe with those of us here
from the US. So does Ozzy. It seems to be their cyber recreational
pleasure of late. And we'd be remiss if we didn't call them on
it--hell, they'd find no pleasure at all in a one-sided diatribe with no
opposition. So in my own way I'm making it possible for you, Moroon and
Ozzy to enjoy your time on ASA. You can thank me now or later.

Max.... if you consider getting fingerprinted merely an inconvenience...
we just have to agree to disagree. I can supply security documentation
and references... but this is not adequate to satisfy the US Customs. If
I view their requirements as beyond that which I am willing to
provide.... how can you state that as anti American? Does my personal
decision offend your national pride? What makes you think I am short
changing myself because I refuse to comply with a ridiculous request? I
wouldn't travel to any country requiring that level of infringement on my
privacy and freedoms.

CM

Amen, to every one of your points. Thank God, I was not born any later.

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:YvGLf.1188$dg.1146@clgrps13...
This is not merely restricted to your country Jl.... I have also toned
down my air travel in Canada. It's just plain ridiculous at times.....
they consider a nail clipper a lethal weapon!! I had to bite my tongue to
refrain from pointing out that I could beat 3/4 of the passengers on the
flight into a coma with my bare hands before I would consider deploying my
"lethal nail clipper"! I bet 4 men with Navy Seals training could take
over a plane in very little time with no weapons at all.

I can understand and respect proactive security measures..... but what
they are implementing is beyond bordering on ridiculous and I believe it
is nothing more than a facade.

The requirements for travel to the USA reeks of information gathering and
infringement of privacy... not to mention a gross trampling of individual
freedoms.

The very name "Homeland Security" resonates pre cold war Russia / Nazi
Germany.

CM

"jlrogers" wrote in message
. com...
For thirty years I traveled every week in the US by air. Sometimes 3
cities a week. I gave it up in 2004 because of 'Homeland Security." I
no longer fly because of the "security." I will not be treated in the
degrading and officious manner that is now imposed on flying passangers.
With my temperment, it would just be a matter of time before I decked one
of those officious *******s.




"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:VIuLf.2314$M52.1274@edtnps89...

"Maxprop" wrote in message

Certainly, but the US sits on his nearby southern border. Jakarta
doesn't. I enter Canada from two to five times per year, and its
disappointing that the border constraints are in place, but that won't
stop me. Petty bureaucracies exist in nearly every place in the world,
and unless you choose to become a self-isolationist you simply deal
with them and go about your business.

Seems to me you assume that because you find Canada worth visiting
repeatitly... I should feel the same way about the USA. I don't.....
and you shouldn't take that personally... get all insulted, and claim
I'm anti American.


But this really has nothing to do with Moroon's inconvenience or his
principles. He loves to grind the anti-US axe with those of us here
from the US. So does Ozzy. It seems to be their cyber recreational
pleasure of late. And we'd be remiss if we didn't call them on
it--hell, they'd find no pleasure at all in a one-sided diatribe with
no opposition. So in my own way I'm making it possible for you, Moroon
and Ozzy to enjoy your time on ASA. You can thank me now or later.

Max.... if you consider getting fingerprinted merely an inconvenience...
we just have to agree to disagree. I can supply security documentation
and references... but this is not adequate to satisfy the US Customs. If
I view their requirements as beyond that which I am willing to
provide.... how can you state that as anti American? Does my personal
decision offend your national pride? What makes you think I am short
changing myself because I refuse to comply with a ridiculous request? I
wouldn't travel to any country requiring that level of infringement on
my privacy and freedoms.

CM

"jlrogers" wrote in message
. com...
For thirty years I traveled every week in the US by air. Sometimes 3
cities a week. I gave it up in 2004 because of 'Homeland Security." I no
longer fly because of the "security." I will not be treated in the
degrading and officious manner that is now imposed on flying passangers.
With my temperment, it would just be a matter of time before I decked one
of those officious *******s.

If you change your mind and go flying into the US again, could you please
let me know where and when? I'd love to watch.

Max

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:VIuLf.2314$M52.1274@edtnps89...

"Maxprop" wrote in message

Certainly, but the US sits on his nearby southern border. Jakarta
doesn't. I enter Canada from two to five times per year, and its
disappointing that the border constraints are in place, but that won't
stop me. Petty bureaucracies exist in nearly every place in the world,
and unless you choose to become a self-isolationist you simply deal with
them and go about your business.

Seems to me you assume that because you find Canada worth visiting
repeatitly... I should feel the same way about the USA. I don't..... and
you shouldn't take that personally... get all insulted, and claim I'm anti
American.


But this really has nothing to do with Moroon's inconvenience or his
principles. He loves to grind the anti-US axe with those of us here from
the US. So does Ozzy. It seems to be their cyber recreational pleasure
of late. And we'd be remiss if we didn't call them on it--hell, they'd
find no pleasure at all in a one-sided diatribe with no opposition. So
in my own way I'm making it possible for you, Moroon and Ozzy to enjoy
your time on ASA. You can thank me now or later.

Max.... if you consider getting fingerprinted merely an inconvenience...
we just have to agree to disagree. I can supply security documentation and
references... but this is not adequate to satisfy the US Customs. If I
view their requirements as beyond that which I am willing to provide....
how can you state that as anti American? Does my personal decision offend
your national pride? What makes you think I am short changing myself
because I refuse to comply with a ridiculous request?


I get fingerprinted every three years in order to obtain a firearms carry
permit. BFD--I have nothing to hide. It makes my fingers black and the
cleanup is a PITA, but hardly worth fretting over. It may be an
infringement on my privacy and personal freedom, but it is what I have to do
to accomplish my goal, so I do it without bitching. To refuse to do so
would mean that I am denied my permit to carry. That would affect me--not
those who have instigated the policies.

And no, you don't offend my national pride, or any such silly, fallacious
conclusion you may concoct, in the least. My point is simply that your
indignation is placing limits on your ability to move about the world. It
has no effect whatever upon me or my countrymen. You're more than welcome
to stand on your principles and avoid the US. We don't care in the
slightest.

I wouldn't travel to any country requiring that level of infringement on
my privacy and freedoms.

I guess, then, that you'll not be going anywhere a passport is necessary,
eh?

Max

"Maxprop" wrote in message

I get fingerprinted every three years in order to obtain a firearms carry
permit. BFD--I have nothing to hide. It makes my fingers black and the
cleanup is a PITA, but hardly worth fretting over. It may be an
infringement on my privacy and personal freedom, but it is what I have to
do to accomplish my goal, so I do it without bitching. To refuse to do so
would mean that I am denied my permit to carry. That would affect me--not
those who have instigated the policies.

Good Grief!!... I have never been fingerprinted. I have a restricted weapons
permit, I have an airside access permit, I have a clean record..... having
something to hide isn't the issue here Max..... having information about me
stored within a system as displayed by the US government is. I have the
option not to have that information gathered. Despite our idiotic gunlaws in
Canada.... I don't require a retinal scan nor fingerprinting to obtain
restricted weapons permit.

I'm not chosing to become a global hermit here... nor am I electing to hide
within the masses by compliance. I am merely defining the limits of what I
find acceptable to provide.


And no, you don't offend my national pride, or any such silly, fallacious
conclusion you may concoct, in the least. My point is simply that your
indignation is placing limits on your ability to move about the world. It
has no effect whatever upon me or my countrymen. You're more than welcome
to stand on your principles and avoid the US. We don't care in the
slightest.

Bull****.... it's obvious it offends you. It's not indignation on my part
Max.... it's merely refusal to comply with ridiculous demands. We are all
limited as to our ability to "move about the world"... make no mistake
regarding that fact. Nonetheless... my not having access to the USA in no
way impedes my ability to travel to the remaining 80% of the countries on
this planet that are available to me.
....and Max, I most certainly will stand on my principals.

I guess, then, that you'll not be going anywhere a passport is necessary,
eh?

You're suffering a brain fart there aren't you Max.... I have a passport
and can travel to the majority of the countries on this planet.... which
do not require retinal scans and fingerprinting. I currently have an EEC
Passport, microchipped and a Canadian Permanent Resident Card as well as 2
entry visas to the USA labelled " permanent.indefinite for business or
pleasure" . I'm welcome almost everywhere I choose to go.

CM