"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:IPpKf.9241$jh5.5282@edtnps84...

"Maxprop" wrote in message

Then there's Mooron, who's worried about retinal scans and such. I
think he must have something in his past that he doesn't want uncovered.
g

I'm currently at a deadlock with US Customs.... they won't let me in
without my acquiesence to further data profiling....

Ah, so you do have something to hide, eh?

I won't consent until they place me on the undesierable list after
processing. That alone has them scratching their heads in disbelief!

Me too. Why would you want to be placed on the undesirable list?

Until then... If I can't make the list I want...I want no part of the
list I can.

I think you're more nuts than Bubbles.

Really though..... I have no reason whatsoever to visit the USA.

That's fine. Each to his own. But I can foresee any number of reasons
why you might find it either desirable or necessary to enter the US at a
future time. Do you really want to be on the list that permanently bars
your entry?

Like I said, I think you're nuts.

Well Max.... I guess I just like to **** with the system a bit. It's a
stupid system and I have no intention of completing the process. They seem
to think I really want to travel to the USA. They have nothing to guide them
when an applicant wants to be rejected! Now they want to appease me with
assurances of strict privacy and that's it's for US Security "during these
times". Yet they can't promise that info will be deleted later on if the
situation changes.

Like the time I was working in Am. Samoa. They were like 13 months getting
my American SS card to me. I didn't care, but I needed it prior to leaving
to pay my taxes.... so I visited the office. The dude says to me he'll
look into it.... I said I'm leaving in 2days and if the card wasn't there...
I wouldn't be paying taxes. He looks at me and says..."But everyone wants an
American Social Security Card!"... "obviously not everyone" I replied....,
"I don't want it, I don't care, and if it ain't here by day's end.... ****
you guys!.. I'm gone". He delivered it personally later that day!

I ask you...what self important, pretentious idiot would assume that anyone
would covet such a card is beyond me. He thought it was a privilege...
Really!

Max...try and "foresee" even one reason why anyone would require to "visit"
the USA?? I can't think of even one! You guys don't "require" to visit
Canada either.... and I wouldn't give a **** if you did visit or not.

Really... the USA ain't that great a place! Canada is mind you!

CM

"Capt.Mooron" wrote
!

Max...try and "foresee" even one reason why anyone would
require to "visit"
the USA?? I can't think of even one!

To get a better education?
To earn more money?
That's what my future DIL did. Oh, and she states
emphatically that she's never going back to Can..

Scotty

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 05:46:59 -0500, "Scotty"
wrote:


"Capt.Mooron" wrote
!

Max...try and "foresee" even one reason why anyone would
require to "visit"
the USA?? I can't think of even one!

To get a better education?
To earn more money?
That's what my future DIL did. Oh, and she states
emphatically that she's never going back to Can..

Scotty



Before I retired, my Engineering/Quality manager was a Canadian.
From Guelph (I guess that qualifies). He's not going back either.
Not only came to the U. S. but to the deep south. Talk aboot culture
shock, eeh!

Frank

"Scotty" wrote in message
...

"Capt.Mooron" wrote
!

Max...try and "foresee" even one reason why anyone would
require to "visit"
the USA?? I can't think of even one!

To get a better education?
To earn more money?
That's what my future DIL did. Oh, and she states
emphatically that she's never going back to Can..

There's no excuse for Ontario... I agree. It's like the NYC of Canada. The
weather sucks, the people are idiots [Liberals] and the weather sucks!

Did I mention the weather sucks?

CM

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message

Before I retired, my Engineering/Quality manager was a Canadian.
From Guelph (I guess that qualifies). He's not going back either.
Not only came to the U. S. but to the deep south. Talk aboot culture
shock, eeh!

Some people value cash over quality of life...... Quality Control is a
thankless and stressful job. Everyone hates you eventually... except the
client if you have done your job properly. I've been to almost every state
in the union many moons ago..... once was plenty.... I can't see any
reason for a return visit. Mind you the USA of circa 1980 was a much
different place than it is now.

...and it's "Eh!".... Ya'll! One of these days you Yanks will learn how to
pronounce the letter "R"... maybe.

CM

Oz,

Did you miss the discussions of Bavaria's we had? There was one
we had while you were gone, reiterating one we had last year. If you
got a good deal on a Bavaria, there may have been a reason for this.

One man died in a 2005 amateur race of Bavaria 42's when one boat
lost it's keel and turned turtle at night. Five people were pulled from
frigid waters. I am not sure how they managed to get a radio call off for
rescue. The 6th died, perhaps trapped in a cabin behind a pinched
tight bulkhead door, or perhaps he simply drowned, or hypo thermia
killed him.

The most important point was these Bavaria's were missing backing
plates on the keel bolts. In a fleet of 13 supposedly identical boats, the
number and location of backing plates varied on these boats. Some
boats had only one backing plate, others had two. I can't find the link
now, but it was clear someone goofed badly as every keel bolt should
have had a backing plate, and many--about 50% of the fleet's keel bolts
did not have backing plates to distrubute the load--which caused factures
in the keel trunk area, and resulted in this one boats losing it's keel.

Bavaria's Quality Control Inspections at the factory did not catch this
huge mistake--the German reputation for engineering excellence has
been badly stained--dead black--at least for yachts.

In cases where there were backing plates, there seemed to be inadequate
framing underneath them such that cracks formed.

See article I reprinted below. There were other problems cited such as
bulkhead doors that would not open, as these boats flexed in rough
weather. See the link below for pictures.

I find it shocking I could find next to nothing on the Bavaria web site
about the incident. So much for accoutability and quality control at
Bavaria. Personally, I'd never buy a Bavaria given this sort of behavoir
by the factory.

You might want to check out your new boat carefully to ensure it's
reasonably safe for use or charter. The good news is these boats
float without a keel.

Bart

********************************

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showflat.p...fpart/all/vc/1

http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?p=53059

**********************************

Good summary of the incident below.

Tragedy on the Adriatic
13 boats out of the 20-membered Adriatic Challenge fleet took
part on its first regatta, on Mira Mare Cup on the 25th of April,
2005. The "Bavaria 42 Match" type boats sailed from Bozsava to
Vodice.

In the 30-40 knots yugo of the boats were cruising to the finish for
a long time when they received MAYDAY call from one of the boats.
As it turned out, the keel came off and the boat capsized in the night
around 10 o'clock 2 kilometers from the south coast of Murter. There
were 6 people on board who fall to the 13 Celsius degree sea.

The boats nearby went to help them immediately and could save 5 men,
the sixth however, lost his life. On the 2nd day of the tragedy the boat
was tug into the harbor of Tribunj. The hole in the place of the keel let
draw the conclusion that the hull was ripped (out). Later investigations
lead to the fact that the keels on all of the 20 boats of the fleet were
stirred. Now official investigations are taking place.

But what could happened with the keel? Because whatever could
happened, the last thing what a boat could leave is her keel. But for us
the most shocking was the moment in Vodice when we saw -and you
an see the same on the pictures - the lot of gaps in most of the Bavaria
Match 42s' bilges.

The lack of some backing plates - which lead away the tension - was
the most interesting revelation. Whether it was the part of the unique
construction according as the unchanged type boats aren't the same,
so we can find sometimes three backing plates inside the bilge (I think
this was the originally idea), but sometimes only two therefrom. It is
well apparent on the attached pictures. Three backing plates two
backing plates, why just two?

We don't know whether the capsized boat had all of these backing
plates but irrespectively of this, we can make a shrewd guess as to the
accident happened as follows: In the midst of the big waves (2 meters
high) the hull slowly had separated from the boat's ribs, where the
keel had been hanging, than it was nothing to hold it any more, at this
moment the first part let off and tugged the rear end of the keel. This is
our unofficially version, our opinion by the grounds of what we saw on
the boats.

Circumstances: The participants reported other about the conditions
of the regatta - supposedly it's depended on the routine, the brave and
the adventurous. The wind was blowing steady 36 knots.

According to the Beaufort Scale this is a gale. The sailors used typical
the second reef and small jibs. Some of the sailors surrendered the
regatta before the incident.

The stage Bozsava - Vodice was very prolonged and they have to
cruising all along in strong wind. Don't forget, this is an amateur and not
a transatlantic regatta so the participants haven't got too much routine.

The lock: There were other problems with these boats near (by)
the keel. The sailors told us and we suggested, that the Bavaria's
cabin doors weren't tested in choppy conditions because those
had been simply closed and nobody could opened it form outside
with the clench anymore only with a fork. (The incident happened in
that cabin where they stored their life-jackets.

The rudder: three from the twelve boats turned into beyond control for
short time as those rudders went wrong in the strong winds. Allegedly a
bolt wasn't strained enough and it could come loose. (kilazulhatott). After
a Hungarian skipper this problem befell not the first time at the Bavaria,
but that time wasn't caused accident.

More pictures are available he

http://www.sailing.hu/galeriak/verse...a_mare_kupa/1/

The official press release of the Adriatic Challenge from the boat
accident in Croatia. According to the boat accident on the 25th of April
many wrong information came to light. The Adriatic Challenge, the owner
of the boat which lost its keel and capsized, summarizes the exact course
of the event as the following: The Adriatic Challenge business enterprise
was founded by 3 Hungarian businessmen and sailor: Róbert Láng, József
Gál and Lajos Gallasz. The company let the owned 20 boats to charter for
regattas, for companies' programs, for team building trainings.

After long analysis, the owners choose the type Bavaria 42 Match for
establishing their fleet, because this type fit the best for their activity,
so for
the competitive and adventurous sailing. Choosing the producer was according
to the capacity, skill and reputation of the manufacturer. The Bavaria 42
Match
appeared on the market in January 2004, and it proved to be good on several
regattas since then. The Adriatic Challenge ordered the 20 boats of its
fleet
from the 2nd largest boat-producing company, from the German Bavaria in
December 2004. The boats were manufactured according to the strict German
and European quality standards. At delivery all of the boats had the
appropriate
certificate that proved the sterling usage.

The boats were launched at Koper, from which they were transported to the
main harbor, to Biograd by Croatian and Hungarian crew. On the way, the
keel of one of the boats was damaged at the arbor of Umagi, but the damage
was corrected, so the boat arrived to Biograd in perfect condition. This
boat
did not participate on the Mira Mare Cup, during the whole event she was in
the harbor. There was not any other damage on none of the boats of the
fleet,
so the Adriatic Challenge started the season with excellent boats. In the
middle
of April there was an open day, on which the whole fleet was tried out (as
they
were moving on a club-regatta.) 13 out of the 20 boats participated on the
Mire
Mare Cup. It is important to mention that the Adriatic Challenge did not
actually
organize the regatta; the company only let the boats for chartering.

The regatta started on Saturday. On Monday there was strong wind, but the
weather conditions were normal for the completion of the stage. The
accident,
the coming off of the keel happened at Monday night, couple minutes after 10
O'clock. The boat capsized and the 6 members of the crew fall into the
water.
5 of them were luckily saved, the 6th died. The cause of death has been
unknown yet; the police investigations are still going on.

After the accident the Cup ended, the Adriatic Challenge called its boats
back
to the harbour of Vodice and Biograd, where the Croatian Naval Office has
already started investigations by examining the boats.

The advance inspection detected that 7 boats have obvious, visible
construction
lesion around the keel. In the course of the first technical control proved
that the
failures have the same type and denote structural weaknesses. The injury of
the
boat could originate in designing or producing failure. The definite
technologic
controls and expertise are under way. Beyond the Croatian authority, the
Adriatic Challenge and the insurer's independent professionals also looking
for
the accident's reason. In the name of the Adriatic Challenge we would like
to
console with the family of the departed on the Mira Mare Cup ..

Róbert Láng
Managing Director
www.sailing.hu

If you
got a good deal on a Bavaria, there may have been a reason for this.



Yep, I read about that and Bavaria's rep plumetted. I still think they
are generally good boats, but I've seen a few late models go cheap,
including a 36 in CT. The reason is that they have a very limited rep
here and stories like the one above don't help of course. If Ozzy paid
under 80K he still go a good deal, though I probably would have gone
with a faster boat.

RB
35s5
NY

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:YtxKf.9564$jh5.8382@edtnps84...


Well Max.... I guess I just like to **** with the system a bit. It's a
stupid system and I have no intention of completing the process. They seem
to think I really want to travel to the USA.

Actually I'm sure they don't care.

They have nothing to guide them when an applicant wants to be rejected!
Now they want to appease me with assurances of strict privacy and that's
it's for US Security "during these times". Yet they can't promise that
info will be deleted later on if the situation changes.

Since you've rejected the normal process, they probably think you're a
suspicious character, and want as much info on you as they can accumulate.


Like the time I was working in Am. Samoa. They were like 13 months getting
my American SS card to me. I didn't care, but I needed it prior to leaving
to pay my taxes.... so I visited the office. The dude says to me he'll
look into it.... I said I'm leaving in 2days and if the card wasn't
there... I wouldn't be paying taxes. He looks at me and says..."But
everyone wants an American Social Security Card!"... "obviously not
everyone" I replied...., "I don't want it, I don't care, and if it ain't
here by day's end.... **** you guys!.. I'm gone". He delivered it
personally later that day!

Welcome to American bureaucracy. You can't possibly believe we Americans
get any better treatment, do ya?

I ask you...what self important, pretentious idiot would assume that
anyone would covet such a card is beyond me. He thought it was a
privilege... Really!

Max...try and "foresee" even one reason why anyone would require to
"visit" the USA?? I can't think of even one! You guys don't "require" to
visit Canada either.... and I wouldn't give a **** if you did visit or
not.

I have friends in Canada, and I also have relatives who visit there often.
If anything happened to any of them, I'd want to be able to attend a
funeral, for example, or visit someone in a hospital. And my wife and I are
planning to spend the holidays this coming December at the famous hotel at
Banff Springs.

Really... the USA ain't that great a place! Canada is mind you!

There are myriad places in the USA that are gorgeous, and I never tire of
visiting them. And the job/career/business opportunities here are probably
greater in number and scope than those in Canada. But neither is really
important. I simply don't want to be told I cannot go someplace where I
should reasonably be able to go. So far I haven't found such a place.

And I still think you're nuts.

Max

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:gRFKf.6972$_62.4239@edtnps90...


..and it's "Eh!".... Ya'll! One of these days you Yanks will learn how to
pronounce the letter "R"... maybe.

And you Cannucks might just learn that Z is pronounce Zee, not zed . . .
maybe.

Max

In article , Maxprop
wrote:


Really... the USA ain't that great a place! Canada is mind you!

There are myriad places in the USA that are gorgeous, and I never tire of
visiting them. And the job/career/business opportunities here are probably
greater in number and scope than those in Canada. But neither is really
important. I simply don't want to be told I cannot go someplace where I
should reasonably be able to go. So far I haven't found such a place.

Try taking a sailboat to Cuba..... yeah, I know, you don't actually
want to go there, so it doesn't count. Riiiiiight.

PDW