As I'm soon to be a published authority on boats and boat buying, I
think I'll do the group a service and teach you all a bit about boats
and "quality." 99% of what you know is wrong, based on hearsay and
rarely relevant to actual sailing.

Catalina vs. Tartan
About the same quality. This is NOT to say that the Tartan doesn't have
an edge in fit and finish or that the plumbing specs are a bit higher.
They are. But in the REAL WORLD of how almost all of us use our boats,
the Catalina does everything the Tartan does. In fact, for just about
ANYONE, the Catalina will offer a more comfortable boat for the family.
The sad fact is that Tartan needs some serious marketing to push their
pretty hulls. They need to create an illusion of quality when their
boats are truly matched or even outmatched by lower cost high volume
builders. Stepping aboard a Tartan 34 a few months ago, I found it to
be edging on awful for living space. Fit and finish, in spite of the
rep was no better than my old C&C 32. It was a whole lot less fun to
sail than the 35s5. So why buy it? So you can tell your friends you own
a Tartan?

Beneteau 35s5 vs. Swan 36
Yep. That's right. I dare! The Swan 36 is a beautiful boat. Stepping
aboard a rather tired example I could see why people love them.
Beautiful, fast and a sweet interior. Sadly, the interior had no place
for a tall person to sleep. The head was tiny. Designed as a family
boat, there was still a lack of innovation in her living spaces. Did
you know that Swan built the 36 hull in the same manner as the 35s5 and
even the deck/hull joint is the same? Both the Swan and 35s5 are quick
boats. For the coastal cruiser the Swan 36 offered nothing but less
comfort underway compared to the 35s5, unless name dropping is more
important to you.

Nordica 30 vs. Island Packet 35
Yup...I dare again. If any of you actually looked into the Nordica,
you'd know that she's strictly a low end boat, costing much less than
her competition. As noted by a certain owner, her interior is not well
fit. Still, for many thousands less than the IP 35 you'll have a boat
pretty much capable of the same cruising.

Now...what most of the numbnuts here don't realize is that my 35s5 was
more expensive than the Tartan and Sabres of her day. She was built and
designed to be UP-market of them. And certainly well up-market of
Catalina and Pearson. Does that make her a "better" boat? Hell no.
She's only better if she fits your needs. If you're over 6 feet tall, a
Swan 36 isn't better than a Hunter 37 for cruising, no way no how
(Though I'd pick neither). If you can't see that, then you're just
caught up in the name game. Pay for differences that MATTER or you're
just another victim of marketing.
Folks like Doug and Sloco can read all the magazines they want, but
when you've interviewed more than 20 surveyors you start to get a sense
that most issues of production boat quality are based on marketing and
word of mouth that may not fairly represent the facts. Case in point:
Virtually EVERY surveyor scoffed at the idea of a Island Packet being
"better" built than a Catalina. "Better for what?" Came the inevitable
response. The Catalina can go anywhere, just like the IP, and might get
you there in better shape too.

RB
35s5
NY

Five star troll!

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...

As I'm soon to be a published authority on boats and boat buying, I
think I'll do the group a service and teach you all a bit about boats
and "quality." 99% of what you know is wrong, based on hearsay and
rarely relevant to actual sailing.

Catalina vs. Tartan
About the same quality. This is NOT to say that the Tartan doesn't have
an edge in fit and finish or that the plumbing specs are a bit higher.
They are. But in the REAL WORLD of how almost all of us use our boats,
the Catalina does everything the Tartan does. In fact, for just about
ANYONE, the Catalina will offer a more comfortable boat for the family.
The sad fact is that Tartan needs some serious marketing to push their
pretty hulls. They need to create an illusion of quality when their
boats are truly matched or even outmatched by lower cost high volume
builders. Stepping aboard a Tartan 34 a few months ago, I found it to
be edging on awful for living space. Fit and finish, in spite of the
rep was no better than my old C&C 32. It was a whole lot less fun to
sail than the 35s5. So why buy it? So you can tell your friends you own
a Tartan?

Beneteau 35s5 vs. Swan 36
Yep. That's right. I dare! The Swan 36 is a beautiful boat. Stepping
aboard a rather tired example I could see why people love them.
Beautiful, fast and a sweet interior. Sadly, the interior had no place
for a tall person to sleep. The head was tiny. Designed as a family
boat, there was still a lack of innovation in her living spaces. Did
you know that Swan built the 36 hull in the same manner as the 35s5 and
even the deck/hull joint is the same? Both the Swan and 35s5 are quick
boats. For the coastal cruiser the Swan 36 offered nothing but less
comfort underway compared to the 35s5, unless name dropping is more
important to you.

Nordica 30 vs. Island Packet 35
Yup...I dare again. If any of you actually looked into the Nordica,
you'd know that she's strictly a low end boat, costing much less than
her competition. As noted by a certain owner, her interior is not well
fit. Still, for many thousands less than the IP 35 you'll have a boat
pretty much capable of the same cruising.

Now...what most of the numbnuts here don't realize is that my 35s5 was
more expensive than the Tartan and Sabres of her day. She was built and
designed to be UP-market of them. And certainly well up-market of
Catalina and Pearson. Does that make her a "better" boat? Hell no.
She's only better if she fits your needs. If you're over 6 feet tall, a
Swan 36 isn't better than a Hunter 37 for cruising, no way no how
(Though I'd pick neither). If you can't see that, then you're just
caught up in the name game. Pay for differences that MATTER or you're
just another victim of marketing.
Folks like Doug and Sloco can read all the magazines they want, but
when you've interviewed more than 20 surveyors you start to get a sense
that most issues of production boat quality are based on marketing and
word of mouth that may not fairly represent the facts. Case in point:
Virtually EVERY surveyor scoffed at the idea of a Island Packet being
"better" built than a Catalina. "Better for what?" Came the inevitable
response. The Catalina can go anywhere, just like the IP, and might get
you there in better shape too.

RB
35s5
NY

Five star troll!


Even more so since a Hunter 37 can cruise around the world just fine.
Depending on the weather, it can also do it faster and in greater
comfort. All production boats are very close in quality.
Period.


RB
35s5
NY

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...
Five star troll!


Even more so since a Hunter 37 can cruise around the world just fine.
Depending on the weather, it can also do it faster and in greater
comfort. All production boats are very close in quality.
Period.

This is what is amazing. What you said is true. All you do is emphasize how
the 35s5 fits your needs very well and they go ballistic!

Perhaps the difference is is that you bought your boat to fullfill a
functional purpose, whereas others buy them to fullfill an image or some
other bizarre need.

Form follows function.

It's your objective practicality that drives them nuts.

Amen!

Carry on!

Glory!

whereas others buy them to fullfill an image or some
other bizarre need.

Bizarre is right!
On idiot claims he doesn't cruise, then buys a Express 30 telling
everyone how nice the cabin is. Still no nice pics of the Express 30
interior to be found. This guy certainly had better boats to suit his
type of sailing.

Another idiot takes a small, but tidy sum and buys a TRAWLER, fer
cripes sake!

Another fool, claiming to be a sailor, runs out and spends on a
Catalina 28. That has to be among the dullest boats ever designed.

Yet another clown admits his PDQ 36 is now overkill (and still claiming
he wished for the bigger one!). He also says he motors when doing less
than 5 knots and sails small boats when he wants "sailing fun!" Holy
jumping jelly beans, Batman!

RB
35s5
NY

Capt. Rob wrote:
Five star troll!


Even more so since a Hunter 37 can cruise around the world just fine.
Depending on the weather, it can also do it faster and in greater
comfort. All production boats are very close in quality.
Period.

Low quality, built to a price point.


RB
35s5
NY

Low quality, built to a price point.


All production boats are built to a price point. The problem is a false
perception that a smaller builder might produce better boats. The
smaller builder will usually pay more for everything used to construct
a boat. Their best course of action for sales is to proclaim there boat
is "better." But how are they better? My 35s5 looks as good or better
than most Tartans. J-Boats and C&Cs we saw. If there was one standout
it was the Cape Dory yachts which seemed to have weathered the years
better than most other boats.
Big builders can afford to push the envelope. My 35s5 is just light
years beyond most of the boats built in the early 90s. Doug was unable
to find more than a couple of boats that combine her performance and
accomodations per foot. All he could do was post pics of boats that had
half the features.
Do features make a good boat? They do if they're important to
you...like an aft cabin and swim platform. Like a good turn of speed
and a spacious cockpit. Like a beautiful interior and head sized for
adults over 6 feet. Like shallow draft and a clear deck.

RB
35s5
NY

"Capt" Rob wrote:
Five star troll!


And you're interest is in trolling, because you can't sail?


Even more so since a Hunter 37 can cruise around the world just fine.

Sure, if it was packed in a nice safe & secure shipping
container.

Hunters aren't built for long term hard sailing. Stuff
starts coming apart.

.... All production boats are very close in quality.
Period.


Gary wrote:
Low quality, built to a price point.


There are some pretty good production boats, and some poor
ones; but most of the really top ones are built on order
only. Boats take a LOT of hand labor, the cheaper ones use
cheaper less skilled labor & less of it.

DSK

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
Low quality, built to a price point.


All production boats are built to a price point. The problem is a false
perception that a smaller builder might produce better boats. The
smaller builder will usually pay more for everything used to construct
a boat.

Great point. Therefore, one should pay more for a boat from a smaller
builder to get the same quality. Or buy direct from the smaller builder. The
smaller builder usually has lower overhead costs.

Glory!

Hunters aren't built for long term hard sailing. Stuff
starts coming apart.



Utter nonsense....the kind of crap you hear from old dock farts. I
don't care for Hunters one bit, but we've had plenty come through our
yard as transients. Quite a few had been sailed long distances and were
just fine along with their happy owners. In fact I'm selling a Hunter
43 now that has cruised the entire coast and also made a crossing in
the late 90's. She's in A-1 shape. We have a Beneteau 38 here that has
done several crossings and a little Catalina 34 that just came back
from St. Pete's.
MOST production boats can go anywhere with a little prep and the owners
will come apart long before the boat will. Note that Doug is a
powerboater now. Nuff said.

RB
35s5
NY