You gentlemen need to learn the terms of sailing. When steering the marks
it's a header or a lift, not feather up or down or whatever, steer
according to the wind.... make headway when you can and adjust accordingly.
Point as high as you need to make the mark and hope something doesn't bite
you in the ass on a tack , that would be the move across the wind Rob ,
overrun a winch or whatever. The boat is as fast as the person sailing it. A
First 35s5 may be fast but I can make it faster with my sailing ability
(Come on, Fat man on the rail ,, Knows how to sail.)
JB

What the hell... you think you have the monopoly on correct sailing
terminology for the entire planet?

The Captain I learned to sail with used to refer to "Pinching & Pumping"....
falling off to gain speed and heading up to make point in light air. It also
worked great in gusty conditions when reefing was not practical for a short
run.

Basically... terminology is fine around the club house... but you can see a
real sailor by how he moves his boat.

Unlike most... I've sailed a 30 ft full keel sloop for a year without an
engine. Now that teaches you how to handle a vessel much better than a
hundred books on polars and technical jargon. Don't believe me... try
sailing from a lee dock in 20kts with vessels astern and ahead. I had no
choice but to sail to a slip. I set anchor under sail and learned to plan my
entry and exits.

CM




"J B" wrote in message
...
You gentlemen need to learn the terms of sailing. When steering the
marks
it's a header or a lift, not feather up or down or whatever, steer
according to the wind.... make headway when you can and adjust
accordingly.
Point as high as you need to make the mark and hope something doesn't
bite
you in the ass on a tack , that would be the move across the wind Rob ,
overrun a winch or whatever. The boat is as fast as the person sailing it.
A
First 35s5 may be fast but I can make it faster with my sailing ability
(Come on, Fat man on the rail ,, Knows how to sail.)
JB

"J B" wrote...
You gentlemen need to learn the terms of sailing. When steering the
marks
it's a header or a lift, not feather up or down or whatever, steer
according to the wind.... make headway when you can and adjust
accordingly.

Umm... no. Think velocity, not shifts.

A header or lift is a change in the winds direction, relative to which
tack you are one. Feathering (as I've always heard it used) is when you
get a gust and head a little higher to depower the boat and gain some
distance to windward, rather than either heel more or ease the sail.


Capt.Mooron wrote:
What the hell... you think you have the monopoly on correct sailing
terminology for the entire planet?


Maybe he does.

The Captain I learned to sail with used to refer to "Pinching & Pumping"....
falling off to gain speed and heading up to make point in light air. It also
worked great in gusty conditions when reefing was not practical for a short
run.

Basically... terminology is fine around the club house... but you can see a
real sailor by how he moves his boat.


True.


Unlike most... I've sailed a 30 ft full keel sloop for a year without an
engine. Now that teaches you how to handle a vessel much better than a
hundred books on polars and technical jargon. Don't believe me... try
sailing from a lee dock in 20kts with vessels astern and ahead.

Is that difficult or something?


... I had no
choice but to sail to a slip. I set anchor under sail and learned to plan my
entry and exits.


Well, good. The next step is to get a tippy hi-performance dinghy and
learn to sail it without embarassment. If you value heavy weather
skills, an afternoon of sailing a 14' crew-ballasted centerboarder in 20
knots will teach you more than years of sailing a heavy 30 footer in
much stronger winds.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message
...
: "J B" wrote...
: You gentlemen need to learn the terms of
sailing. When steering the
: marks
: it's a header or a lift, not feather up or
down or whatever, steer
: according to the wind.... make headway when
you can and adjust
: accordingly.
:
: Umm... no. Think velocity, not shifts.
:
: A header or lift is a change in the winds
direction, relative to which
: tack you are one. Feathering (as I've always
heard it used) is when you
: get a gust and head a little higher to depower
the boat and gain some
: distance to windward, rather than either heel
more or ease the sail.
:

Feathering can be used to take a 'bite' up wind.
Always sail on the lifted tack. And when you do
get a puff, "ease - hike - trim" are the words to
live by. Generally, a puff is going to stall the
sail. Ease to re-attach the flow, hike to flatten
the boat, trim back in.

:
: Capt.Mooron wrote:
: What the hell... you think you have the
monopoly on correct sailing
: terminology for the entire planet?
:
:
: Maybe he does.
:
: The Captain I learned to sail with used to
refer to "Pinching & Pumping"....
: falling off to gain speed and heading up to
make point in light air. It also
: worked great in gusty conditions when reefing
was not practical for a short
: run.
:
: Basically... terminology is fine around the
club house... but you can see a
: real sailor by how he moves his boat.
:
:
: True.

Or not. Pumping is not the same as pinching and
footing as Mooron says. ISAF won't let you get
away with pumping.

:
:
: Unlike most... I've sailed a 30 ft full keel
sloop for a year without an
: engine. Now that teaches you how to handle a
vessel much better than a
: hundred books on polars and technical jargon.
Don't believe me... try
: sailing from a lee dock in 20kts with vessels
astern and ahead.
:
: Is that difficult or something?
:
:
: ... I had no
: choice but to sail to a slip. I set anchor
under sail and learned to plan my
: entry and exits.
:
:
: Well, good. The next step is to get a tippy
hi-performance dinghy and
: learn to sail it without embarassment. If you
value heavy weather
: skills, an afternoon of sailing a 14'
crew-ballasted centerboarder in 20
: knots will teach you more than years of sailing
a heavy 30 footer in
: much stronger winds.

Or, try a 17' Thistle.

:
: Fresh Breezes- Doug King
:

"DSK" wrote in message

Is that difficult or something?

To some posting here Doug... it would be impossible.




Well, good. The next step is to get a tippy hi-performance dinghy and
learn to sail it without embarassment. If you value heavy weather skills,
an afternoon of sailing a 14' crew-ballasted centerboarder in 20 knots
will teach you more than years of sailing a heavy 30 footer in much
stronger winds.

Oh Okay... I'll run right out and do that... Oh Wait.... I owned a Laser for
5 years and a Hobie for a year and even got to go out on an International 14
in 20+kts. Now you're talking fast! .......not this "my boat can do 8 kts
and yours only does 6 kts" crap! Owned and sailed an Optimist even. Been
Kayak sailing with both the wishbone and kite.

CM

NotPony wrote:
Feathering can be used to take a 'bite' up wind.
Always sail on the lifted tack. And when you do
get a puff, "ease - hike - trim" are the words to
live by. Generally, a puff is going to stall the
sail. Ease to re-attach the flow, hike to flatten
the boat, trim back in.


Ease to open the leach, yes.

A lot of people simply cleat the mainsheet & ride along, and only ease
when the boat is overpowered to the point of losing steering; that's
more what I meant.

If the boat is balanced & sailing well, close-hauled, and you get a gust
an don't move the tiller... the boat will heel over, the balance will
shift, and the boat will head up on it's own. Then if the gust dies, it
loses heel and the balnace shifts the opposite way... should bear away
back to the course it was on previously. This is not *the* fastest way
to sail, but it's faster than many helmsman can get the boat to windward.


: ... an afternoon of sailing a 14'
crew-ballasted centerboarder in 20
: knots will teach you more than years of sailing
a heavy 30 footer in
: much stronger winds.

Or, try a 17' Thistle.


Same thing

DSK

Is that difficult or something?


Capt.Mooron wrote:
To some posting here Doug... it would be impossible.


yep.

Depends very much on the boat and the situation. I can picture some
conditions where I would set a kedge, which is sort of cheating.


Well, good. The next step is to get a tippy hi-performance dinghy and
learn to sail it without embarassment. If you value heavy weather skills,
an afternoon of sailing a 14' crew-ballasted centerboarder in 20 knots
will teach you more than years of sailing a heavy 30 footer in much
stronger winds.


Oh Okay... I'll run right out and do that... Oh Wait.... I owned a Laser for
5 years

Laser= good

... and a Hobie for a year

You mean a Hobie 16?

... and even got to go out on an International 14
in 20+kts. Now you're talking fast!

They're fun... for the certifiably insane...

.......not this "my boat can do 8 kts
and yours only does 6 kts" crap! Owned and sailed an Optimist even.

In my early teens I got suckered into going out to race Optis in a big
fleet, thinking that it would be kinda fun even if the boat was boxy.
The kids all weighed about 40 ~ 50 lbs less than me... wasn't even
close! Actually it was a fun boat to sail when the the wind got up, but
I quickly learned that being competitive in some classes takes some
definite & undeniable factors....

... Been
Kayak sailing with both the wishbone and kite.


I'd like to try that. How does the kite compare? Is it faster for the
same (or less) sail area? That's what the kiteboarders claim.

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
...

:
: A lot of people simply cleat the mainsheet &
ride along, and only ease
: when the boat is overpowered to the point of
losing steering; that's
: more what I meant.
:
: If the boat is balanced & sailing well,
close-hauled, and you get a gust
: an don't move the tiller... the boat will heel
over, the balance will
: shift, and the boat will head up on it's own.
Then if the gust dies, it
: loses heel and the balnace shifts the opposite
way... should bear away
: back to the course it was on previously. This is
not *the* fastest way
: to sail, but it's faster than many helmsman can
get the boat to windward.
:

The kids all complain when we take their rudders
off, but at the end of the day, the ones who could
sail the course without a rudder are the one who
win.
:

"DSK" wrote in message


Depends very much on the boat and the situation. I can picture some
conditions where I would set a kedge, which is sort of cheating.

No such thing as cheating when on a lee dock with the wind on your beam.....
kedge is the only way you'll get out with the sails up and no damage to the
vessel ahead on the dock. [Well okay.. on my boat anyway.]


I'd like to try that. How does the kite compare? Is it faster for the same
(or less) sail area? That's what the kiteboarders claim.


The kite is awesome.... at times it will lift you clear out of the water.
Kind of a squirrelly ride.... but the adrenaline rush is worth it. The
wishbone sail is no slouch either but it's easier on your balance and
stability. It won't lift you clear of the water but the surfing rocks! Have
you done white water?? Wind Skiing?, Parasail?.....

CM

"NotPony" wrote in message

Or not. Pumping is not the same as pinching and
footing as Mooron says. ISAF won't let you get
away with pumping.

Yeah but I wasn't quoting an ISAF member... Just pointing out terminology
difeferences based reigonal variances. Out here a dock is called a stage.

CM